BvS What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS) - Part 2

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]512179[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]511451[/split]

 

[shauner111]

I liked the romance in Deadpool. It actually felt genuine.

Deadpool got that relationship right, dialogue, action, humor of course, casting, fighting. Characterization was dead on which felt nice since they went full-on "comic-booky". Simple story that made you excited for the future.

Batman v Superman, even though they were going for a completely different tone...had no humor (or it fell flat like Man of Steel when they tried). Average dialogue overall. Meh action with some cool fights. A poor romance between Lois and Clark throughout the two movies. It wasn't believable at all and Amy/Henry have zero chemistry as actors even though Amy is trying her best to be emotional when s**t hits the fan at the end of this movie. Casting is average when you consider Eisenberg and Cavill. Characterization is all over the place which feels strange due to how "comic booky" they made the visuals. Story was a mess and didn't make fans excited for the future.

Sure, it's a different tone/universe. Completely different characters. But both were still trying to sell their films as these super comic booky movies on the surface. S**t that a fanboy would go crazy for.

One delivered. The other failed.

 

[Dopinder]

Don't mean to turn this into a Deadpool thread but this is very cute

 

[Longshot777]

I like Snyder's view of this universe. But do you guys think if he adapt Bruce Timm's animated formula it would be more audience friendly???

-Man of Steel would be The Last Son of Krypton

-Batman V Superman would be World's Finest

-Suicide Squad would be Assault on Arkham

-WW would be Kerri Russell's WW movie

-JL would be a cross between JL Secret origins and JL War

 

[FunkMiller]

-Batman V Superman would be World's Finest

Please, just.... just don't.

Its like showing a starving man a picture of a hamburger he can never eat.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

World's Finest is too good to be true.. I guess we'll have to wait until 2025

 

[Tacit Ronin]

We can always watch the World's Finest two parter from STAS.

 

[kedrell]

What went wrong? Snyder. The seeds for this failure were sown long before they even decided to make this movie. It was when WB/DC settled for Snyder on MoS after lots of better directors turned them down(gotta figure they had good reasons for doing so). It also probably goes back even further to when they let Chris Nolan run rough-shot over them back in 2007 when they had George Miller on hand to give them Justice League: Mortal and Joss Whedon trying to get a WW film off the ground. They were faithless and put all their eggs in the Nolan basket even though it had a definitely limited shelf life and now they are paying the piper for their lack of boldness, confidence and genuine love about these properties they have in their care. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that but it's still pretty easy to see now. They cashed in to win the battle in 2008(and they did) but promptly lost the war with that decision. Another case of golden goose syndrome bites somebody in the ash. It's also a case of chickens coming home to roost.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Has any recent superhero film gotten romance right

Steve and Peggy.

 

[RoryTate]

They were faithless and put all their eggs in the Nolan basket even though it had a definitely limited shelf life and now they are paying the piper for their lack of boldness, confidence and genuine love about these properties they have in their care.

I recently went through an activity of considering each Marvel Phase 1 movie in detail, to try and understand the secret to their success at building a comic book universe. Most analyses I've heard recently mention Marvel's patience and understanding of their characters, but I wanted to see what else there might be. One thing that surprised me as I finished my list was the amount of risk they took along the way. The saying "high risk, high reward" definitely holds true for their franchises, and I know that many see BvS as taking risks, but I think you've called it quite well. Warner Brother's decisions don't really show a bold confidence at all, and are far too reactionary. And they are definitely paying the price for playing it safe with this movie.

 

[Jason Kane]

I like Snyder's view of this universe. But do you guys think if he adapt Bruce Timm's animated formula it would be more audience friendly???

-Man of Steel would be The Last Son of Krypton

-Batman V Superman would be World's Finest

-Suicide Squad would be Assault on Arkham

-WW would be Kerri Russell's WW movie

-JL would be a cross between JL Secret origins and JL War

You mean the JL film isnt just the later?

 

[titansupes]

Every time I read this thread title, I hear the woman from Superman III answering when she says "Oh, lots of things..."

 

[kedrell]

She DID look really good.

 

[wnjcwjkk]

I actually really liked the movie. But two things off top of my head...


I can't remember exactly if Superman knew where Lois was ahead of time, but for him to hear Lois scream as she's pushed off the building, and be there to catch her that fast, just came off as too far fetched for me, even in this universe. I mean, does he have his ear tuned at all times to be able to immediately pick up on Lois's scream?


It's funny, the entire time I've been a fan of both characters, I never took note that Batman and Superman's mothers had the same name. I thought it was an okay idea that Batman makes that connection and that's what makes him reevaluate what he's doing, and realize that he and Superman aren't so different, and want to help Superman and all that. But it just felt awkward and forced the way Superman says "I've got to save Martha!" I suppose maybe he calls her Martha instead of Mom in front of others to protect his identity?

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I think the film really lost me when that scene with the Jonathan illusion (?) bonding with Clark was shoehorned just before the climax.

 

[javonstokess]

I've said it before...to fix this movie you have to:
A. Take Wonder Woman out it totally.
B. Superman should be a celebrated hero, friendlier with the Government while Batman is the wanted vigilante.
C. Get rid of Doomsday and make the villains Luthor, Metallo (the guy who lost his legs) , Joker and Hareliquin
D. Move Metropolis and Gotham City farther apart.
E. Change the title to "World's Finest".
F. Put the Files on Justice Leaguers at mid-credits and the "Knightmare" sequence after the credits, but as Clark's "dream" not Bruce's.
G. No Super-Murder-Man and no Bat-murderer.
H. Superman doesn't die at the end.
I. More "Clark Kent".
J. IF they must have a fight, it should be because the government asks Superman to take down, which he attempts to do because he's trying to be the "good hero" for the world. But the fight would be short and not end with either trying to actually kill the other.
K. Lex Luthor would be played by Bryan Cranston or Billy Zane.

Oh yeah, my Justice League movie would have Supes, Bats, WW, The Flash (from the TV show), Martian Manhunter, John Stewart GL and Aquaman and would adapt Grant Morrison's first JLA arc.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

I'm in no way surprised that this thread is already up to part 2.

 

[the last son]

As wrong as Jesse is for Luthor I'd take something different over Cranston. All we would be getting is Walter White as Lex. Come on people. Look past that already.

 

[javonstokess]

As wrong as Jesse is for Luthor I'd take something different over Cranston. All we would be getting is Walter White as Lex. Come on people. Look past that already.

Not really. Walter White, as dangerous as he was, was kinda awkward and clutzy.

Lex Luthor, at his core is an evil Bruce Wayne. Smooth, confident, capable and intelligent. I'm not sure I'd characterize WW as all of those together.

 

[HauntedKnight]

I've said it before...to fix this movie you have to:
B. Superman should be a celebrated hero, friendlier with the Government while Batman is the wanted vigilante.
C. Get rid of Doomsday and make the villains Luthor, Metallo (the guy who lost his legs) , Joker and Hareliquin
D. Move Metropolis and Gotham City farther apart.
G. No Super-Murder-Man and no Bat-murderer.
K. Lex Luthor would be played by Bryan Cranston or Billy Zane.

Oh yeah, my Justice League movie would have Supes, Bats, WW, The Flash (from the TV show), Martian Manhunter, John Stewart GL and Aquaman and would adapt Grant Morrison's first JLA arc.

I have a lot of problems with most of what you said, but I’ll elaborate on the above I quoted:
B. Why? Let Superman evolve into that. Everyone wants character building, but then expect Superman to be Superman day 1. Batman IS a wanted vigilante, however people seem to want him clean stuff up still.
C. I’d rather have this Doomsday than to shoe in all that.
D. Why? Does this matter at all?
G. Superman killing Zod was the best change to a CMB I’ve seen in movies in years.
K. No. Just..no.

Also, no Flash from the TV show. That does not fit in this universe. That means that whole show is canon and there is more issues with that than this whole movie (even though I love the show).

You basically wanted things to be exactly like they were in the books. We had those, I want more original stories.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

As wrong as Jesse is for Luthor I'd take something different over Cranston. All we would be getting is Walter White as Lex. Come on people. Look past that already.

We didn't get Mark Zuckerberg from Jesse. I don't think we would get Heisenberg from Cranston.

Both Al Pacino/De Niro played gangsters multiple times but they weren't all similar with their previous roles.

Jesse was already a gamble to begin with and new take on Lex even made it more riskier.

Personally, Lex alone made the movie unbearable to watch. Last time i felt like that about a character was Doctor Kafka from ASM2.

 

[Boom]

Keeping Snyder.

 

[WilliamK99]

What went wrong? Snyder's ego got the better of him, even after all the critiques of Man of Steel, instead of addressing those concerns, he doubled down....His arrogance got in the way of making a good movie, that and WB execs wanted to do a Cliff Notes version of Marvel's Universe by going right from the 1st movie to the 5th...Skipping all the world building in between... Avengers would not have been as good of a movie even if it was the exact same movie had it been released immediately following Iron Man... Marvel built a world from the ground up and had the audience invested in the characters before they united them...

Ideally it should have been

Man of Steel
Man of Steel 2
Batman
Wonder Woman
Batman vs Superman
Justice League

 

[javonstokess]

I have a lot of problems with most of what you said, but I’ll elaborate on the above I quoted:
B. Why? Let Superman evolve into that. Everyone wants character building, but then expect Superman to be Superman day 1. Batman IS a wanted vigilante, however people seem to want him clean stuff up still.
C. I’d rather have this Doomsday than to shoe in all that.
D. Why? Does this matter at all?
G. Superman killing Zod was the best change to a CMB I’ve seen in movies in years.
K. No. Just..no.

Also, no Flash from the TV show. That does not fit in this universe. That means that whole show is canon and there is more issues with that than this whole movie (even though I love the show).

You basically wanted things to be exactly like they were in the books. We had those, I want more original stories.

Sooo you have an issue with me wanting a comic book adaption to be more like the books? You realize there was NOTHING original about that movie other than the killing and "wacky" Lex Luthor?

Batman vs. Superman = The Dark Knight Returns, among other movies
Doomsday kills Superman = The Death of Superman
Older Batman getting too brutal and violent = TDKR again