BvS What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS) - Part 2

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It was moronic how Bats did NO detective work regarding the destruction of one of the Wayne Enterprises buildings. He just ASSUMES it was all Superman's fault and not Zod's, then he immediately swears to MURDER Supes based on this flawed info against his one rule. Sigh
 
It was moronic how Bats did NO detective work regarding the destruction of one of the Wayne Enterprises buildings. He just ASSUMES it was all Superman's fault and not Zod's, then he immediately swears to MURDER Supes based on this flawed info against his one rule. Sigh

Zod made it known that he and the others were on Earth for Kal El. It was his fault.
 
It was moronic how Bats did NO detective work regarding the destruction of one of the Wayne Enterprises buildings. He just ASSUMES it was all Superman's fault and not Zod's, then he immediately swears to MURDER Supes based on this flawed info against his one rule. Sigh

the way some of you come to these conclusions and ignore dialogue is mind boggling
 
It was moronic how Bats did NO detective work regarding the destruction of one of the Wayne Enterprises buildings. He just ASSUMES it was all Superman's fault and not Zod's, then he immediately swears to MURDER Supes based on this flawed info against his one rule. Sigh
obviously, you have not even watched the movie.
newbie, you came in to badmouth a movie you haven't even watched, why???
 
It was moronic how Bats did NO detective work regarding the destruction of one of the Wayne Enterprises buildings. He just ASSUMES it was all Superman's fault and not Zod's, then he immediately swears to MURDER Supes based on this flawed info against his one rule. Sigh

Batman do no good detective work in this movie. If he did he have no fight with Superman lol.
 
Zod made it known that he and the others were on Earth for Kal El. It was his fault.

Exactly! Why should Batman bother to question why Kal El is on earth or why Zod tried to destroy the world or why Superman would save the world? There's a 1% chance he might go evil someday so Batman can't risk that happening. There's always a chance more aliens will arrive on Earth but nobody brings this point up so lets just ignore that possibility. This Batman is just not an investigator and people need to accept that. He's an angry middle aged man who wants to kill Superman and anyone that gets in his way.
 
Zod made it known that he and the others were on Earth for Kal El. It was his fault.

Only in the perverse send of the hostage taker. If a guy shoots his way into a bank to steal bags of money, its not the *bank's* fault that people are dead "because they kept money there".

Bruce Wayne's outrage shouldn't have been over "Superman caused it", it should have been over "Superman has the power of a god, and is sloppy and careless in how he uses it".
 
I just watched the warehouse fight again and noticed that Batman isn't killing the grenade guy just for laughs.

That guy had the pin already pulled and was ready to throw. It would have killed everyone in that room. Atleast 10 guys. My guess is that Bat's would have been safe because he's wearing his armour. If this is "The Batman" we know. He decided almost by instinct that it would be better to kill the grenade thrower and the other guy in that other room than the other 10 thugs.
 
The grenade guy was trying to kill all his fellow men in the room, too?
 
Apparently. He was ready to throw it into the room with all his buddies.
 
One thing that bugged me about Batman v Superman, is the whole Martha thing. Am I really suppose to believe a veteran Batman, of 20 years, is gonna come undone by the mere mention of his Mom's name? Makes him appear weak to me. I'm not saying Batman should be "over it", but have his nerves trained enough to not come apart.
 
One thing that bugged me about Batman v Superman, is the whole Martha thing. Am I really suppose to believe a veteran Batman, of 20 years, is gonna come undone by the mere mention of his Mom's name? Makes him appear weak to me. I'm not saying Batman should be "over it", but have his nerves trained enough to not come apart.

Well, I've suffered from somewhat heavy obsessive thoughts attacks in my life and I can assure you, just a sign of the thing that's your deep obsession can totally paralyze you. It's actually really tormenting and sometimes very hard to overcome. As someone with that experience I thought it was depicted really well. Just my point of view, obviously...
 
One thing that bugged me about Batman v Superman, is the whole Martha thing. Am I really suppose to believe a veteran Batman, of 20 years, is gonna come undone by the mere mention of his Mom's name? Makes him appear weak to me. I'm not saying Batman should be "over it", but have his nerves trained enough to not come apart.

It's more than that. Trough the all movie Batman kept repeting Superman's action in his dream. He bring flowers to his mom graves like Clark brings flowers to Lois. Lois is Clark new mom, his world. When Clark call Martha there is a picture of flowers abover her bed and also in the scene where she give a packapge to Lois. Superman need a mother figure.

When Bruce sees him and Lois together it is him he see, a version of him who found/didn't lost a mother. Since he wanted to be on Superman level so much this is a very human moment. They are the same. They share the same mom, symbolically Superman choose earth as his new home, mother earth, same home.

Lex is a version of Bruce, a man without extra power but who use knowledge and technology to fight, wich don't give a damn about his home. He just want to destroy Superman out of his ego, because he's greater than him. At the end of the movie he pactizz with alien. He chooses not home.
 
One thing that bugged me about Batman v Superman, is the whole Martha thing. Am I really suppose to believe a veteran Batman, of 20 years, is gonna come undone by the mere mention of his Mom's name? Makes him appear weak to me. I'm not saying Batman should be "over it", but have his nerves trained enough to not come apart.

lol it one of stupidest parts of movie and make Batman look like fool.
 
One thing that bugged me about Batman v Superman, is the whole Martha thing. Am I really suppose to believe a veteran Batman, of 20 years, is gonna come undone by the mere mention of his Mom's name? Makes him appear weak to me. I'm not saying Batman should be "over it", but have his nerves trained enough to not come apart.

Wouldn't Bats stop to think why -

1) An "Alien" claims to have a human mother.

2) Alien's mother has been kidnapped by Lex Luthor, so that he can force him to fight Batman.

3) Similarly, he realizes that he too has been manipulated by same person (Lex) for two years.

4) "Martha" will die again tonight, if her "son" fails to save her again.

How is that a "weak" thing ? There's more to the scene than just "Oh, your mom's name is same as my mom's name... cool, let's be friends"
 
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That doesn't organically work the way they set up ultra paranoid Batman in this movie.

Even when Justice Lords Batman taunted him with the knowledge of a little kid wanting his parents get killed, Batman put on an act and turned it into a long on game. If he's that convinced Superman has to be killed and undone and dangerous, why is the mention of Martha going to undue Batman? He was even mocking Superman about his parents and how his parents raised him earlier.
 
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Wouldn't Bats stop to think why -

1) An "Alien" claims to have a human mother.

2) Alien's mother has been kidnapped by Lex Luthor, so that he can force him to fight Batman.

3) Similarly, he realizes that he too has been manipulated by same person (Lex) for two years.

4) "Martha" will die again tonight, if her "son" fails to save her again.

How is that a "weak" thing ? There's more to the scene than just "Oh, your mom's name is same as my mom's name... cool, let's be friends"

Absolutely.When I saw that scene the first time in the theater,I teared up.I mean for the people who think Bruce just stopped fighting because same name etc and the scene has no layers,just look at Affleck's acting there.The camera pans to his face,and we see his face for a full 15 seconds.You would see the look of discovery,shame and anger that he felt at that moment,realising how grave his mistake was,how he was becoming something he is not,how he was about to kill an innocent person in a manic filled vendetta.And then what does he do?HE throws away the spear in anger...why would he do that unless he is seriously pissed at himself?I thought it was a really emotional scene,not something to be taken at face value.
 
That doesn't organically work the way they set up ultra paranoid Batman in this movie.

Even when Justice Lords Batman taunted him with the knowledge of a little kid wanting his parents get killed, Batman put on an act and turned it into a long on game. If he's that convinced Superman has to be killed and undone and dangerous, why is the mention of Martha going to undue Batman? He was even mocking Superman about his parents and how his parents raised him earlier.

Thats the thing though.It works organically because it IS a paranoid,broken, Batman.Its not the perfect Batman we always see.

The thing is Bruce projected his own feelings of powerlessness,worthlessness and the feeling that 20 years of useless crimefighting,and tried to justify it by saying its his legacy to protect the world from Superman.However at that moment,he realises,Clark is not a threat,he is a family man,and his last breath he wants his mother to be saved(a human mother,not an alien mother who he was referencing to earlier),he realises in this crazed frenzy he has become completely unhinged,and he throws away the spear disgusted by himself.The thing that follows is him telling Alfred "I dont deserve you",which is consistent with the theme of him being ashamed of his actions.

Thats what I took from it.
 
That doesn't organically work the way they set up ultra paranoid Batman in this movie.

Even when Justice Lords Batman taunted him with the knowledge of a little kid wanting his parents get killed, Batman put on an act and turned it into a long on game. If he's that convinced Superman has to be killed and undone and dangerous, why is the mention of Martha going to undue Batman? He was even mocking Superman about his parents and how his parents raised him earlier.

The scene is a layered scene, as you said, Batman is paranoid and convinced that he has to kill Superman, to eliminate the 1 % chance that he will become another Zod. It's all there in Bruce's mind, the feeling of rage, powerlessness.

But when he first hears Superman say save Martha, Batman is broken out of his rage as he is surprised why on Earth will Superman take the that name.. why ?

It has been established earlier in the movie itself, the scenes at Wayne family Crypt, the Crypt demon Bat haunting Bruce in his mind, indication of how Bruce was reminded of how he felt helpless and powerless to save his mother and blamed himself (on some level) for that.

So, Batman is taken out of fight for a moment and he questions Superman "Why do you say that Name ?", it is worth noting that even then, Batman is Not aware of Superman's secret identity, Bats considers him to be alien who does not have any secret identity.

Now, the next part, when Lois Lane explains that it is his mother's name he starts to think, same things as I have posted before -

Wouldn't Bats stop to think why -

1) An "Alien" claims to have a human mother.

2) Alien's mother has been kidnapped by Lex Luthor, so that he can force him to fight Batman.

3) Similarly, he realizes that he too has been manipulated by same person (Lex) for two years.

4) "Martha" will die again tonight, if her "son" fails to save her again.

How is that a "weak" thing ? There's more to the scene than just "Oh, your mom's name is same as my mom's name... cool, let's be friends"

He also realizes that Superman is experiencing the same feeling of powerlessness as he is unable to save his mother, which is why Superman was taking her name.

Apart from that he also realizes that he and Supes both have been played as puppets by Lex Luthor, which means, his fears about Superman going the Zod way were in fact driven by the manipulations conducted by Lex Luthor, it was clear Batman has not thought everything out and investigated the matter (for example, he was not even aware of Superman's secret identity and his life as reporter Clark Kent.) in depth before reaching the conclusion to kill the Alien.

He abandons his stupid plan.
 
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Thats the thing though.It works organically because it IS a paranoid,broken, Batman.Its not the perfect Batman we always see.

The thing is Bruce projected his own feelings of powerlessness,worthlessness and the feeling that 20 years of useless crimefighting,and tried to justify it by saying its his legacy to protect the world from Superman.However at that moment,he realises,Clark is not a threat,he is a family man,and his last breath he wants his mother to be saved(a human mother,not an alien mother who he was referencing to earlier),he realises in this crazed frenzy he has become completely unhinged,and he throws away the spear disgusted by himself.The thing that follows is him telling Alfred "I dont deserve you",which is consistent with the theme of him being ashamed of his actions.

Thats what I took from it.

Exactly.
 
The scene is a layer scene, as you said, Batman is paranoid and convinced that he has to kill Superman, to eliminate the 1 % chance that he will become another Zod. It's all there in Bruce's mind, the feeling of rage, powerlessness.

But when he first hears Superman say save Martha, Batman is broken out of his rage as he is surprised why on Earth will Superman take the that name.. why ?

It has been established earlier in the movie itself, the scenes at Wayne family Crypt, the Crypt demon Bat haunting Bruce in his mind, indication of how Bruce was reminded of how he felt helpless and powerless to save his mother and blamed himself (on some level) for that.

So, Batman is taken out of fight for a moment and he questions Superman "Why do you say that Name ?", it worth noting that even then, Batman is Not aware of Superman';s secret identity, Bats considers him to be alien who does not have any secret identity.

Now, the next part, when Lois Lane explains that it is his mother's name he starts to think, same things as I have posted before -



He also realizes that Superman is experiencing the same feeling of powerlessness as he is unable to save his mother, which is why Superman was taking her name.

Apart from that he also realizes that he and Supes both have been played as puppets by Lex Luthor, which means, his fears about Superman going the Zod way were in fact driven by the manipulations conducted by Lex Luthor, it was clear Batman has not thought everything and investigated the matter (for example, he was not even aware of Superman's secret identity and his life as reporter Clark Kent.) in depth before reaching the conclusion to kill the Alien.

He abandons his stupid plan.

If they don't get it by now, they never will
 
If they don't get it by now, they never will

Yeah, it's pretty clear. They even show the flashback scene (when Bruce's parents died) after Lois mentions that it's his mother's name. Some people are just not willing to be open minded and take the scene at it's face value.

I'm also done having to explain it again and again.
 
I understood fine. I just didn't like it. Poorly executed.
 
I understood fine. I just didn't like it. Poorly executed.

Then you are an exception.There are people,lots of them,who actually think they stopped fighting because their mothers have the same name.The posts are addressed to them.
 
Then you are an exception.There are people,lots of them,who actually think they stopped fighting because their mothers have the same name.The posts are addressed to them.

And, they think saying it aloud will stop Batman every time, under all circumstances.

:loco:
 
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