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Discussion in 'Misc. Films' started by Warhammer, May 16, 2013.
Go ahead. Discuss.
Do we need spoiler tags in here?
I'm rather tired so I'm not going to do Cliffs notes without much argument.
1. Khan being whitewashed.
2. Uhura - I get that they are trying to elevate a female character and I think that is wonderful in terms of the Trek ideals of diversity and equality, but she wasn't given much to do and it just felt like all her importance stemmed from being Spock's girlfriend, which is a major step backward.
3. That J.J. doesn't seem to understand that the warp nacelles are not thrusters/rocket engines. I feel like they have missed a lot of interesting opportunities to depict warp travel in an interesting, unique way.
4. Where was the "epic Chess Match of life and death" that was promised? There wasn't much cat and mouse intellect or strategy to the film's conflicts.
5. The aliens and the weird cyborg guy on the Bridge
6. Klingons and Kronos (so disappointing after how awesome Victor Garber was in the deleted scenes from 09)
To Be Continued...
Cumberbatch didn't get enough to do.
The fact that it had to end.
That was the same problem I had with the first movie as well.
They take the best villain in Star Trek history and squander him in a almost minor role.
Honestly, I went in not knowing for sure it was Khan. I hadn't read any spoilers and the trailers were ambiguous. I was, quite certain, however that "John Harrison" was a misnomer. And I was leaning toward Gary Mitchell due to appearance and demeanor.
When he said "I am Khan" I feel like he didnt 100% sell it. He's so pale and thin. It was kind of weird coming out of his mouth. But 10 minutes later I was pretty into it. Soon after that I didn't care and enjoyed the rest of the movie thoroughly.
And the only other thing that bothered me was in the first 30 minutes or so Kirk got demoted, Spock reassigned, Kirk promoted, Pike dies, Kirk promoted, Spock reassigned and then Scott quit...
It's like... Why even do all that? The Scotty one ended up making sense... But I could have lived without the rest.
That mess of demotions/promotions was their acknowledgement of the fact that promoting Kirk from cadet to captain was a silly idea last time. As much as I didn't like Kirk's shortcut to the chair, I understood why they did it last time. People don't want to watch a series of movies about Kirk slowly working his way up the ranks. However, by drawing attention to the problem in such a half-hearted way, I feel like they highlighted how absurd it all was.
It's funny you mention that because that's almost how I feel these movies are; just watching Kirk's origin story. Is it not weird that their 5 year mission is starting in movie 3, which will probably be the last one this cast does?
It would be kind of interesting if the next one actually took place over the entirety of the five year mission.
See I didn't think Kirk's promotion in 2009 was that silly. The alternate reality pushed everything up. Kirk became captain, McCoy Chief Medical Officer, Scott Chief Engineer. Sulu was way too young/inexperienced to be helmsman. But they proved themselves against Nero, and Pike gave them his blessing. "Fate" had the crew of the Enterprise start a little earlier. Same with Khan. He was awoken at least 10 years before he should have been. It's not when these milestones happen, its just that they happen. I appreciate the concept.
In my opinion they shouldve just stuck to their guns from 2009 and avoided the mess of demotions/promotions. In fact, Scotty's resignation wouldve had a lot more impact if that were the case.
I agree very much that they should have stuck to their guns. As you say, it would have more impact when Kirk's decisions are questioned and when he is finally forced to learn from his mistakes. I just have such a hard time believing that he can go from getting in so much trouble that they are ready to send him back to the Academy and then, within a matter of hours, he is back as Captain. He never earned his second chance. As much as I dislike how quickly and easily the crew comes together, I can understand and appreciate it in terms of movie logic - most people besides hardcore Trekkies like me wouldn't be willing to sit through a series of Hornblower-style tales that methodically examine such a character as Kirk's rise through the ranks and what it takes to make such a hardened leader.
Personally, though I can't stand all of the talk about destiny and fate in Star Trek 09. That is space fantasy sort of thing that belongs in Star Wars. Star Trek has always been a humanist, atheistic franchise (except DS9 to an extent). There are so many episodes revolving around exposing false gods as sham alien entities for a reason.
Well, let's not forget, he only got to be captain again because Pike was killed and he was basically the only officer left standing other than Marcus. And Marcus used him for his own ends, so it makes sense that Kirk was sent out. I don't have a problem with that aspect.
And I really liked the Scotty sub-plot. I'm glad they gave him something to do in this one.
Also, Pine did a great job. I really saw him grow into the captain's role. By the end of the movie he had become more serious, even his speaking tone had a bit of gravitas to it, and he acted more like a captain. Hopefully by Star Trek 3 he maintains his boyish charm, but carries himself more like Shatner's Kirk. A whimsical glint in his eye, but otherwise not a clown.
I think my only quibble would be the whole " now you're Captain now you're not thing" in the opening strecth. It kinda felt like a rehash of Star Trek 09 and ultimately was left by the waste side after Pike dies and he's made Cap again. I can see that the writers were trying to get across that Kirk had'nt really earned the position yet but I didn't feel at least that the whole situation was compelling enough from a non trek fan pov, to really justify Kirk losing the seat. It just seemed like a plot device which they pretty much get rid of quickly.
I think they should have done a stunt that was far more risky ala making waves with the Klingons or something like ,that which would really give pike a reason to demote Kirk and Spock.
That said , from the into of the villan on , I liked it.
Yeah, Kirk was expendable. It makes sense that Admiral Marcus sent him out there as a Captain. He was going to be marooned and killed anyway.
The only thing that bothered me was the closeup shot of Harrison in his cell, when he was turned to the camera. Not the best effects.
I didn't really like all the copying of other films. I was hoping this would be its own thing and not worry about what fans want or what other movies did. Really failed hard at that. The third act just kind of fell apart for me. But I did still love the movie. Easily the best blockbuster of the year so far
The dialogue was awful throughout. Good God, the amount of exposition given to us over and over again would make Chris Nolan's head spin.
The villain was majorly underused after a terrific set up.
The finale is the most anti-climatic thing I've seen in years.
Seriously, you don't set up a villain to be so superior both mentally and physically and have him defeated by getting hit in the head hard with a piece of metal.
During the last scene, when everything is wrapping up, I kept thinking Khan was going to show up and the REAL 3rd act would begin. I kept thinking "There's no way they could possibly end now". And it just did. Such a weaksauce ending.
I think the ending could have been a bit more epic. There was so much buildup, I was really suprised when it ended.
While STID was a good movie, it wasn't great and didn't really represent a step up from the first movie.
Carol Marcus was totally useless. I assumed she was on the ship just to be killed and was shocked when she not only lived but ended up joining the crew.
Khan was a bit of a waste here. The first half of the movie set him up brilliantly but then he really didn't do all that much in the second half. As someone above me noted, he was defeated in a rather lame way.
-Cupcake and the other redshirt were killed a bit too easily and perfunctorily, as if the hand of Abrams came in from the sky and plucked them out of the movie just for convenience
-The transition from the warp battle and the Enterprise almost crashing to the Earth seemed to be missing some expository script in between those two points
I don't think Khan was defeated too easily
He survived a ship crash from space, went on the run, multiple really high jumps, a intense fist fight with Spock, getting shot by Urah's stun gun like 5 times from close range, and finally getting knocked out after repeated blows to the head with a piece of metal.
I loved it but I agree. I had no idea about any spoilers so when he revealed himself to be Khan it hit me kind of hard. Totally wasn't expecting that.
Maybe this has all gone over my head, but I still don't see the point in connecting the two universes. Was it really necessary to put Leonard Nemoy in these things? I mean god sakes, couldn't everyone just live with the fact that these new movies were a re-imagining? Did they HAVE to make it so that it takes place within the same continuity? WHO CARES. That's like having Christian Bale's Batman take his cues from Michael Keaton's Batman in The Dark Knight. "Watch out Bruce, The Joker is unlike any enemy you've faced before. You need to be extra careful when dealing with this maniac. Trust me, I know."
And yet despite this major problem I have with it... I still thought it was awesome.
The ending was a bit rushed but that's about it.
By the way people revealing the twist with John Harrison need to use spoiler tags. I feel like this is the Mandarin thing all over again where people weren't even being coy about leaking spoilers.
As much as I liked it, my biggest complaint was the repeatedly absurd coincidences needed to move the plot forward, totally ruined the flow
Scotty just happens to throw a tantrum and quit so he's away from the disabled Enterprise and conveniently close enough to Earth to investigate the random coordinates the villain just happens to give out so Scotty can be on the battleship to disable it just when it's about to fire on the Enterprise?????
not the only thing that comes to mind, but it was things like that that annoyed me