Civil War What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

[emergencyfan]

That would be an incredibly slippery slope. I mean, you could strap a cherry bomb onto an arrow. People hang-glide. Police wear body armor and use tasers. Average soldiers drive tanks and use assault weapons. Sure, not to the point of the Avengers, but where exactly do you draw the line between classifying someone as "technologically enhanced" v/s someone who just happens to use really cool (or dangerous) technology?

 

[metaphysician]

Or, it could be that Hawkeye is of interest, because he's an Avenger. Because the Accords are, first and foremost, about *The Avengers*, not powered people.

 

[harryoscop]

Spider-Man is what I didn't like.

 

[Voltron]

Not enough Sharon and Sharon/Steve.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Less Cap than in Age of Ultron.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Rhodey bringing up the US as something they can't mess with broke my suspension of disbelief.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Steve thinks Zemo is going to release the Winter Soldiers in Siberia and he needs a team to stop them. Does he tell Clint to get Scott and Wanda and wait for him (and Sam and Bucky) in Moscow?

No, he tells him to come to Germany for no reason.

 

[Capsfan]

I think Steve should have asked Sharon to find an evidence, that Zemo is a fake doctor, and bring it to Ross. That's E.Ross's problem, not his. In that case he would have had no need to ask Clint, Wanda and Scott to become criminals.

 

[Steamteck]

that was the most agenda driven disingenuous presentation by Ross I've ever seen in a non political piece that wasn't called out. All it proved is the Govt and Tony needs over site and just a little looking into would reveal millions of people would have died both in the NY and DC incident if the Avengers/Cap had been towing the Govt line.

 

[dax]

that was the most agenda driven disingenuous presentation by Ross I've ever seen in a non political piece that wasn't called out. All it proved is the Govt and Tony needs over site and just a little looking into would reveal millions of people would have died both in the NY and DC incident if the Avengers/Cap had been towing the Govt line.

Exactly and I'm surprised that none of the Avengers called out Ross for any of this crap. He should know that if it wasn't for SHIELD messing with the tesseract, Loki and his alien army wouldn't have found their way to earth nor would HYDRA had taken over SHIELD if the U.S. Government hadn't foolishly recruited Dr. Zola which allowed him to insert remaining HYDRA agents inside SHIELD. By that same token, Crossbones wouldn't be in a position to blow himself up at Lagos and while Tony did create Ultron (due to being manipulated by Scarlett Witch's magic) which led to the Sokovia disaster, the Avengers still shouldn't be punished for his mistakes.

 

[GarhiShotFirst]

I wish we'd had more/longer scenes between Steve and Bucky. Those brief moments in the quinjet were nice, but I think the movie was really missing closure for the two of them after that final fight. The pain of that fight wasn't just Tony's, but that's all the pain that was really addressed or resolved.

Not to mention how Black Panther ended up offering Bucky sanctuary. How did Tony get home, with his flight systems damaged? Did he stay and fix his systems, possibly end up investigating that base? Did he take the quinjet and Steve/Bucky went with BP? Did BP tie Zemo up and leave him for Tony to take back? I have so many questions about how the events at that base wrapped up. Mostly, I just wanted more material between Steve and Bucky, since theirs is the only Cap relationship that not only spans all three Cap films but implicitly extends beyond, both past and future. Something a little more substantial than a seconds-long mid-credits scene with sad smiles.

On the other hand, it was subtly done and barely noticeable, but I liked that they showed Bucky feeling uncomfortable being back at that base and Steve being mindful of that and offering him comfort via light bantering and such. Much better than a scene of Bucky overtly freaking out, which is how some scripts might have played it.

 

[Schlosser85]

Yea I was disappointed how shortchanged Steve and Bucky's relationship after it was kind of the emotional core of The Winter Soldier. They barely had any screen time together in TWS, while in Civil War they spend like two thirds of the movie together, but it felt like there was more emotion between them in TWS.

 

[Capsfan]

There was this rumor that they've cut some scenes between Steve and Bucky due to gay panic. But personally, I don't see, why some people think TWS was more emotional for them. For me CW was more emotional. Yes, there is no "till the end of the line" this time around, but actions speak much louder than words. "Your Bucky", the first meeting in Romania, helicopter scene, "I don't know if I'm worth all this, Steve", Steve's desicion to fight his friends, basically all Siberia sequence, where Steve lost control and became furious towards Tony... The whole half of the movie was about how far Steve is willing to go for Bucky. It's the most beautiful story about friendship. It's even stronger than the one of Frodo and Sam.

 

[Xeno]

Yea I was disappointed how shortchanged Steve and Bucky's relationship after it was kind of the emotional core of The Winter Soldier. They barely had any screen time together in TWS, while in Civil War they spend like two thirds of the movie together, but it felt like there was more emotion between them in TWS.

They had more than enough time together, imo. The plot was driven by Steve's nearly irrational devotion to Bucky and his willingness to flaunt the law and destroy the Avengers to "save" his only friend.

 

[dax]

Captain America being a jerk and lying to Tony so long. Hurts the character.

How is Captain America being a jerk??? He's not the one forcing the Avengers to comply with the United Nations by signing the accords nor did he lie to Tony at all. Cap truly didn't know that Bucky killed Tony's parents because a) the video in Winter Soldier never showed the murders and b) Bucky told Cap that there are 5 other Winter Soldiers. As far as Cap knew, any one of them could've been the Starks' killer and he also knew that Tony would react like a psychotic madman (which he ended up doing anyway) if he told him straight away.

They had more than enough time together, imo. The plot was driven by Steve's nearly irrational devotion to Bucky and his willingness to flaunt the law and destroy the Avengers to "save" his only friend.

The Avengers were already destroyed the moment Tony built Ultron which led to the Sokovia disaster and the United Nations forming the Sokovia accords. Tony himself admits that in Age of Ultron.

 

[Wylie Times]

How is Captain America being a jerk??? He's not the one forcing the Avengers to comply with the United Nations by signing the accords nor did he lie to Tony at all. Cap truly didn't know that Bucky killed Tony's parents because a) the video in Winter Soldier never showed the murders and b) Bucky told Cap that there are 5 other Winter Soldiers. As far as Cap knew, any one of them could've been the Starks' killer and he also knew that Tony would react like a psychotic madman (which he ended up doing anyway) if he told him straight away.

Cap would have to be an idiot to not know it was Bucky. He was told they had been assassinated by Hyrdra, he knew the winter soldier was carrying out assassinations for Hydra, at the time he didn't know about the other winter soldiers.

There was no logical reason for Steve to keep that info from Tony other than Steve was trying to protect Bucky.

The Avengers were already destroyed the moment Tony built Ultron which led to the Sokovia disaster and the United Nations forming the Sokovia accords. Tony himself admits that in Age of Ultron.

That's a bit of a stretch considering Age of Ultron sees the formation of a New Avengers team at the end and Civil War starts out with that team operating in the field.

 

[TheVileOne]

IMHO there's no real excuse for Steve not telling Tony.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Cap would have to be an idiot to not know it was Bucky. He was told they had been assassinated by Hyrdra, he knew the winter soldier was carrying out assassinations for Hydra, at the time he didn't know about the other winter soldiers.

Natasha was standing next to him when all that was revealed. And yet...

 

[Capsfan]

Oh, god, more Tony haters.

I think a big part why Tony got so mad is because it's Cap, who is supposed to be this shining ideal of morality. Had it been Natasha, Tony wouldn't have been surprised or hurt so much. But it's Cap who had been complaining how his teammates didn't tell him things.

Natasha was standing next to him when all that was revealed. And yet...

It's likely that Natasha decided it's not her business and left Cap to deal with it, because Bucky is his friend and Cap is the leader of the Avengers.
Anyway, Steve admitted himself that he knew. And admitted later in the letter, that he was sparing himself.

 

[Wylie Times]

Natasha was standing next to him when all that was revealed. And yet...

She's just as wrong for not telling him, and she had to have deduced that it was Bucky also.

Obviously Tony would be more hurt by Steve's lie of omission than Natasha's, since he doesn't trust Natasha anyway.

 

[Wylie Times]

Oh, god, more Tony haters.

I think a big part why Tony got so mad is because it's Cap, who is supposed to be this shining ideal of morality. Had it been Natasha, Tony wouldn't have been surprised or hurt so much. But it's Cap who had been complaining how his teammates didn't tell him things

Also this comes fresh off the heels of Tony spending most of the film trying to protect Cap. That's what gets lost in all of this. Tony agreed to the accords, but he was only getting involved directly to protect Cap after he chose to break the law in multiple ways.

Ross wanted to throw Cap in jail after they first caught bucky, but Tony talked him out of it. Then Ross wanted to send a kill squad after Cap, but convinced Ross to let Tony bring him in.

Tony did all of that only to find out the guy that Cap was protecting had also killed his parents and Cap likely knew about it.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

But it's Cap who had been complaining how his teammates didn't tell him things.

Kind of not the same since his parents' death is history. Tony messing around with stuff he had no idea about was an going concern.

He should have told him, and the fact he didn't was out of character. Just the whole situation is contrived to bring Steve down to Tony's level.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Obviously Tony would be more hurt by Steve's lie of omission than Natasha's, since he doesn't trust Natasha anyway.

Except he doesn't trust Steve because he doesn't have a dark side, either. Amusing, actually.

 

[Wylie Times]

Except he doesn't trust Steve because he doesn't have a dark side, either. Amusing, actually.

Don't confuse a line of dialog from a low moment with how the character is supposed to actually feel. Tony left Steve in Charge of the Avengers before taking his "break", which showed that Tony trusted Steve. Tony has never trusted Natasha though because from the moment he met her she lied to him. Hell Steve didn't even trust Natasha for a while.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Like with Steve and Tony being friends, I never saw anything to hint of trust between the two.