What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

Discussion in 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' started by speno94, Mar 28, 2014.

  1. speno94

    speno94 Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone, I know this may seem like a negative sounding thread and I am not the type of person that only sees the negative in everything like some critics.

    I LOVED the film, I give it a 9/10. I can't really add anything to the positives that have been said already about the film, it's true that it has some of the best action scenes in a comic book film ever, it's surprisingly sophisticated and mature etc this film hardly has any flaws.

    I was just wondering what minor flaws you had with the film (if any) and what elements they could improve on in Cap 3 etc.

    Personally for me, my minor critiques are:

    - I would of liked slightly more screen time and dialogue for The Winter Soldier. Maybe more scenes with Bucky learning who he is, flashbacks with Steve, the origin of how he was found, his bionic arm creation etc, but it is hard to adapt because this story will continue in Cap 3 and The Winter Soldier is a brainwashed soldier so it is hard to give him personality. I also would of liked more Russian ties , but that is just a nitpick. But overall I LOVED the character, very Terminator and his look is straight from the comics and second best MCU villain to Loki.

    - I would of liked an extra scene with Peggy Carter or at least slightly more build up towards the scene with old Peggy because I loved the scene because it was very poignant, but it sort of cuts straight to the scene after Steve visits the museum and I would of liked more build up to it.

    - Most the score I really liked and I loved the Winter Soldier theme, very atmospheric and creepy as well as the nod to Alan Silvestri score at the beginning, but Henry Jackman had the potential to create a modern day memorable theme for Cap, but it didn't quite hit.

    - Lastly, it would have been fun if there was a Wakanda/Black Panther reference regarding how Falcon got his wings and maybe they were made in Wakanda for Sam. I think fans would have really dug it up and is a nod to the comics where Black Panther gave Falcon his wings, but that isn't really a flaw, just a wish list.
     
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  2. hoy-small-fry

    hoy-small-fry It's a dance-off bro!

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    No Coulson or Hawkeye. In a film about SHIELD, I expected to see the major players involved. Could have also done with a bit more of an idea as to what happened to SHIELD post-film, we just get a handful of montage scenes...

    Aside from that, I loved it. Soundtrack maybe could use some work, maybe some more past on Winter Soldier, but I'm really picking holes now. Awesome film
     
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  3. MyKryptonite

    MyKryptonite Member

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    The fact that we should believe, that Arnim Zola has his Mind/Memory transfered into those old Machines in the 70ies was too much for me, even for a ComicBook Universe aswell as the USB-Hub that was attached to the old Computer (reminded me a bit of the upcoming Transcendence).
    Besides that, the Movie was beautifully shot, seemed realistic and raw to me. The Fightsequences were some of the best in Marvel Solo-Movies so far and I liked the scenes without many VFX very much.
    Interesting that they upped the visible Violence in this one. We´ll see how that continues in Age of Ultron.
    In simple Words:
    +Look
    +Realism
    +Chemistry of Captain, Black Widow and Falcon
    +Story/Plot

    -Zola in a Machine
    -Where is Coulson, Hawkeye, Stark, Thor when S.H.I.E.L.D. is in Danger?
    -not enough Winter Soldier
    -Peggy-Scene should/could have had much more Impact
     
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  4. hoy-small-fry

    hoy-small-fry It's a dance-off bro!

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    Just thought of one biggie - how perfect Black Widow looked throughout it

    Yes Scarlett is beautiful on her own, but in every scene Black Widow looked like she'd spent 3 hours putting make-up on, even after getting kicked in by the Winter Soldier. Then they went to Falcon's place, she had a shower, and bam, she's back to looking perfect again, as if Falcon had make-up and hair straightners to hand... I dunno, it just bothered me, jealousy perhaps haha
     
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  5. hopeless

    hopeless Well-Known Member

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    Off the top of my head when Cap announces Hydra has infiltrated SHIELD and Rumlow threatens that coms officer I was wondering why no one said," You're Hydra? You scum s**king low-life! Put that gun down and put your hands behind your head before we make you regret ever being born!" but maybe that was just me?:cwink:

    The there was me wondering why they didn't just
    shoot Pierce or notice him trying to recover that mobile of his... at one point I thought Bucky was going to threaten or kill him right before he shot his housekeeper even though he could have just explained he was a late night visitor and nothing to be worried about after all he's hardly going to get his face plastered across the press or tv isn't he?

    So when are they going to introduce an LMD in either the tv show or movies?

    When Cap
    caught Widow in the comp room why didn't she answer his question by saying,"Yes I'm a spy and of course I'm copying the hard drive in case these pirates are actually here to hide someone stealing important SHIELD data... why don't you make sure that guy you decked is still unconscious... oh h**k!" dodges grenade...

    When Pierce
    blamed Fury for bugging Cap's apartment why didn't cap reply,"God, he must have been bored then!"

    Does Cap keep any of the other Avengers in his speed dial?
    "Hey Thor would you mind popping over here and lightning bolt three helicarriers before they start firing at you? Oh you're busy with your girlfriend? By the way the guys in charge of these new helicarriers Tony help build... oh you'd love to blow up anything Tony built? Great!":woot:

    "Tony you know those helicarriers you advised SHIELD on constructing? Yes well they're about to be used to kill you and blow up anything you've built... oh someone has already blown up everything you've built? Well this guy mentioned he had your parents killed would you care to return the favour? Oh and is Banner still over at your place? Might want to ask if he needs to unburden some of that rage of his...."

    I mean seriously where was Hawkeye when you needed a sniper?:yay:

    Otherwise it was fine, I'd even rate it higher than Man of Steel but I'm waiting on the How It Should Have Ended video to prove that point!:woot:
     
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  6. spider-neil

    spider-neil spins a web any size!

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    2 things I didn't like.

    1. 3D
    Possibly the worst post conversion I have seen and I've seen Wrath of the Titans.

    2. Score
    The score of the original was perfect and fit the tone of the movie beautifully. The Cap 2 score was pretty bland, in fact I can't remember it at all where as the original score has left an indelible mark on my brain.
     
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  7. speno94

    speno94 Well-Known Member

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    Some minor flaws I heard from people is some of the shaky cam, but I didn't mind it because usually I agree because in some films, they use it to try cover up bad choreography and make it look like something more tense is happening when it's not, but because this film had such great fight choreography like the Bourne films, I thought it added to it.

    Also, sure some of the twists were a little predictable in the film such as Robert Redford, Nick Fury and The Winter Soldier, but I think the film was more about execution and the film executed everything brilliantly.
     
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  8. Tony007

    Tony007 Active Member

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    I would have like to have more about black widow's past, I guess its my only point of concern.

    Before I enter the movie I tried to stay spoiler free so at some points I was really specting Widow to be a Hydra agent too, you know, an Avenger turned evil(and have her voiced change when she turns bad like in avengers: EMH :p )
     
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  9. psylockolussus

    psylockolussus Well-Known Mutant

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    -I wish Falcon was introduced differently, I just don't like how he was introduced at the beginning of the movie.
    -Maria Hill. I just don't think I knew anything new about her. I remember her in The Avengers but she didn't make a strong impression to me.
    -I wish there was more emotion to Nick Fury's death. Scarlett had a good reaction to it and I already knew he wasn't really dead but still.
    -I wish I saw more Batroc.
    -I wish I would have seen more from Revenge superstar Emily Vancamp aka Agent 13. For someone who helped Fury/Cap when Fury was shot, I wish she had more role. I'm hoping she would be in the next Captain America movie.
    -I wish there was another scene with Peggy Carter after the climax. I just wasn't satisfied with Peggy's scene in the first part of the movie but at least she's still alive.
    -I also wish I saw more from Zola. What he revealed was such a relevation and he had a big role in Hydra staying afloat for decades.
    -The appearance of the mayor from Iron Man 2. I got the connection easily but I don't think he was needed in the movie.
    -Winter Soldier was a bit meh to me. I liked that he gave Captain America a hard time and he was super strong but I just wasn't impressed him. And there's something lacking with his relationship with Steve Rogers, maybe its their acting or chemistry but I'm not completely sold with it.
    -Lack of emotional attachment to the characters. For me that is something that the movie lacked of.
     
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  10. irapogi

    irapogi Well-Known Member

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    I figured they couldn't contact each other since technically SHIELD kind've handled their communication. Maybe they didn't allow it or something, i dunno. That's my reasoning for them not being in each others' movies.
     
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  11. Lightsplasher

    Lightsplasher Well-Known Member

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    -I didn't like that too but I found her more sympathic than in AoS & The Avengers and I found that great .
    -About Sharon , the Russos said she was only introduced here for future movies so you can be assured we'll see more of her in the future .
    -Zola is for me , truly the BEST MCU Villain yet . He was just so much more imposing than Malekith with so little screentime . His lines were delicious ! That HYDRA twist was an excellent idea and I hope we'll see the consequences in the future .
    -About the Winter Soldier , he's not very present in the comics too but I think they tried to make up for the chemistry , the friendship , the bromance between Steve and James with the flashback (Which I found quite weird)But the Winter Soldier's fans will dig it just like I did everytime he showed up .Knowing that the movie is plot-heavy , I think they actually found the right balance between characterization and the story .
     
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  12. The Englishman

    The Englishman Marching On Together

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    Loved the film, think it's my second favourite Marvel film behind The Avengers but I was disappointed that with so much focus on S.H.E.I.L.D that Hawkeye and Coulson did not make an appearance. I think they both deserved to be involved...
     
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  13. Lightsplasher

    Lightsplasher Well-Known Member

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    Coulson has his own show in AoS and I guess they'll say Hawkeye was undercover or something like that . I'm really looking forward what happens to
    S.H.I.E.L.D
     
    #13
  14. X-Maniac

    X-Maniac High Evolutionary

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    I thought the film a solid 'good' - maybe 7/10...but had a few issues with it:

    1. It's overlong and feels baggy and saggy in places

    2. You can feel the sceenwriting (Ok, so we must have a high-octane, super-kinetic action scene any time now..)

    3. It's overly destructive (never seen so many cars and aircraft wrecked in my life). Too much!

    4. I found myself looking at it rather than being engaged with it (I was thinking 'Yes, those digital effects look good', rather than 'Oh my God, how will they survive that?')

    5. What happens in the movie renders the Agents of SHIELD series completely redundant. Not even a mention of Hawkeye or Agent Coulson despite the massive ramifications of the plot.

    6. Everyone who fights is some sort of super acrobat doing backflips all over the place. I guess Batroc (who looked very sexy! lol) went to circus school..

    7. Scenes of aircraft ploughing into tall buildings show that America's obsession with revisiting/reliving 9/11 just will not go away, and I really wish it would.

    8. The scene right at the end of the credits really is not worth the effort of staying. We felt conned, and everyone else in the cinema was groaning too at having to wait for something like that.

    9. The score was nothing much, semeed like just a few cheesy patriotic chords at times when Cap was doing his thing. Just wasn't memorable.

    So the film is good (I'd give it a 7), but that's why I think it isn't any more than a solid good. There were only 10 people in the auditorium on a main Saturday night screening. Didn't bother with the 3D version as two people at work said the post-conversion was bad and the action scenes were all fuzzy.
     
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  15. DarthSkywalker

    DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    10. It wasn't an X-Men film. :o

    :cwink::woot:
     
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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  16. X-Maniac

    X-Maniac High Evolutionary

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    No need to be snarky. I gave Avengers a 9, and the first Iron Man an 8 or 9 as well. I'm entitled to my opinion. Get used to it.
     
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  17. Nilso

    Nilso Well-Known Member

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    What did you give First Class?
     
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  18. X-Maniac

    X-Maniac High Evolutionary

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    I'm not starting down that road. This thread is 'What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques' so that's what I have stated in here.
     
    #18
  19. Nilso

    Nilso Well-Known Member

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    Relax buddy, just messing with ya.
     
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  20. The Endless

    The Endless WE are Groot

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    What did you give X-3 The Last Stand? :D
     
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  21. X-Maniac

    X-Maniac High Evolutionary

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    I've moved on from that. So should you. it was eight years ago. I was reading in a book that people who are stuck in the past are prone to depression and do not lead happy or successful lives. Therefore, it's time to move on!
     
    #21
  22. Nilso

    Nilso Well-Known Member

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    He gave The Wolverine a higher score, hahahhahahaahahahh.
     
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  23. X-Maniac

    X-Maniac High Evolutionary

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    That's irrelevant. You're in a thread called "What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques"
     
    #23
  24. Volcom

    Volcom Well-Known Member

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    I really need to watch this a second time. But from the first impression:

    - Badly developed plot, considering it started pretty good but soon settled for a generic action movie that never fully explores it´s initial ideas.

    - Lack of a memorable soundtrack.

    - "Over choreographed" fighting scenes. It seems that the directors think "the more, the better". Too many flips and kicks and over the top stuff that looks nothing like a real fight. I might as well just watch a Kung fu shaolin demo.

    - The Winter Soldier was awful. There was nothing for him to do in the movie. Badly developed as a character. We didn´t see much from him, and what we saw was very generic. A couple of lines and a couple of fight scenes.

    - Lack of memorable performances. To me no movie can be great without a memorable performance. Something i can talk about years from now.

    - Too long. Especially for a movie that didn´t even bother to give us proper characterization.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  25. Webfoot Hero

    Webfoot Hero West Coaster

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    The Winter Soldier was never going to be fully formed, with many lines and scenes, since he was the implement being used by the villain rather the main villain. He's more of another thing that Steve must confront from his past in the modern day. In the comics, his character wasn't starting to fully be fleshed out until he had regained his memories, which is the way Marvel will go about it in the MCU.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014

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