The Last Jedi What's The Deal With Canon?

[Karelia]

I was curious how you guys felt about canon. Does it really matter to you? I have been a fan of the EU for awhile, I grew up with Knights of The Old Republic/The Force Unleashed, didn't started reading the EU novels until a couple of years ago. That said, I'm currently reading NJO series and loving it.But I have friends who are not interested in it because it's no longer considered canon. I feel like there are amazing stories in the EU, as well as the new canon. It doesn't matter to me, because at the end of the day, it's all Star Wars. Lucas is no longer in charge, so it mine as well all be "fan fiction" to me. I look at it as a good story is a good story regardless. Good stories will last and be remembered. The Thrawn trilogy is still remembered to this day, even after the new current trilogy has came out.

I also think how Marvel/DC have reset their universes multiple times over, reset canon, it doesn't seem to phase them, so why does it bother SW fans so bad? I guess continuity has been consistent until the Disney buy out. But things were being retconned before the buy out even
So what gives? Just curious to hear what you guys think about canon and if it effects how you enjoy Star Wars

 

[Aximili86]

They never were full canon. George & Zahn only ever said they were basically "canon for the time being because no movies are being made", it was sort of a consolation prize through the 80s/90s when no flicks were in production. That stuff was always going to get superceded by movies at some point, and it made zero sense for Disney to use the EU as a template. Dozens of different authors, all with their own sensibilities and conflicting stories, it was one big cluster****.

 

[Ozbridge]

Despite getting into the SW fandom AFTER the EU has been branded "non-canon" (around late 2015), I've never really cared about whether a novel is canon or Legends. I read mostly based on recommendations, so it might come from new canon or Legends or even fanfics. I can't say whether new canon or Legends is better either, 'cause both have gold and trash.

 

[Roose Bolton]

The EU was some of the best Star Wars, and some of the worst....regardless I don't hold it against the filmmakers for discarding it, as that was always going to happen in the then unlikely event of more films. I'd always thought Lucas would override it himself at some point or another so I wasn't too devestated.

But it's not gone as such. It still exists as a library of fun ideas for creatives to draw from and utilise, as Dave Filoni has done with Thrawn, and that's something I'll get a kick out seeing more of in future.

 

[Karelia]

I do like how Filoni has brought Thrawn into the fold. He has done a good job taking things from the EU and reintroducing it, but still keeping the essence of what makes it great. Like Thrawn. Also the voice actor he picked out for Thrawn is perfect. You can tell he cares and is a fan. I love that about him.

I will also agree that there is things in the EU I'm not crazy about, but same can be said with current canon. Just not crazy about how lightsaber colors work anymore... seems a little too much.

 

[TheVileOne]

I mean it's a fictional universe, so you can really do whatever you want at the end of the day. Even when people go crazy like "That's not how the Force works" blah blah blah. Are you sure? We are talking about space magic really. Space Magic can really do whatever you want it to do because it's space magic.

Sort of a weird analogy, but during Anime Expo, I was at a panel for a manga/light novel series that's about to get an anime called Goblin Slayer. Goblin Slayer is set in a fantasy world that's directly inspired by the rules, world, races and archetypes of Dungeons and Dragons. The author was there and a question was asked about how the world uses all these specific magic elements, but a wizard used lightning magic which contradicts the other magical element bases. The author basically said, "It's magic. Don't think too hard about it."

Yeah it's convenient when the Force can do all these things but it's basically space magic. It can really do anything you imagine it can do. New stories and powers set new precedents. The EU did it with the Force too. I recall all sorts of strange Force powers that were never referenced or used in the movies.

I mean fans got so bent out of shape over EU post Disney. However, parts of EU already started getting tossed in the trash with the prequel trilogy. IMHO, prequel trilogy already pretty much made the entire EU irrelevant. I thought the EU was cool and all to get new stories and material to help revive interest for the franchise, but none of it was sacred text to me.

 

[MaceB]

I also think how Marvel/DC have reset their universes multiple times over, reset canon, it doesn't seem to phase them, so why does it bother SW fans so bad?

Are you talking about the Marvel comic books or movies? I don't feel like the MCU has reset their continuity yet. That's what makes them so cool. There have been speed bumps and course corrections, but that's not the same as discarding what came before and completely rewriting it.

Consistency is a good thing. It's what they should shoot for. Mistakes happen, but now that a canon has been introduced in the films... that's it. There's no going back now.

 

[Karelia]

The Marvel comics is what I was referring to. Marvel and DC comic books reset continuity a lot. I guess with Star Wars, the books always strived to stay in continuity with each other throughout until the Disney buy out. That's a long period of time for one continuity. I think Heir to the Empire came out in 91.That was the book that really started the EU. So 91 through 2014 there was just one. It had not been reset.

I looked out of curiosity to see how many copies Heir to the Empire sold. It says the Thrawn Trilogy sold 15 million copies.

 

[TheVileOne]

Not really. The prequels threw out a lot of continuity with he EU.

Based on EU, the Clone Wars sounded like the Republic fighting against evil psychotic clone or clone soldiers.

 

[Jenocide]

I don't really focus on all of that. There's three great movies, and then a bunch of peripherals, some of which is better than others. If I'm interested, I'll read/watch it. If not, I'll move on.

Star Wars is the OT for me. Everything else is just icing on the cake. I stopped caring about how it was all connected and what was canon, what wasn't, what was retconned, etc.

Like most overarching series--especially multi-media ones--you'll go mad trying to keep up on what's canon and what isn't.

 

[Bim]

As a owner of plenty of EU books (a lot of which still sit on my shelves), i'm not remotely offended or annoyed by it getting scrapped for the most part. Some of it i love, some of it i hate. At the end of the day, i always considered just the movies/tv shows as the true canon, and the rest was just fun stories to read about in between.

I always focused more on the post-ROTJ EU and yeah, the new trilogy changed everything radically. I'm not ripping my hair out over that though. Honestly, at this point i'm kinda Star Wars numb lol.

 

[Karelia]

Not really. The prequels threw out a lot of continuity with he EU.

Based on EU, the Clone Wars sounded like the Republic fighting against evil psychotic clone or clone soldiers.

I'm referring to the books keeping continuity well with each other. The stories always did have to get a pass from Lucas before they released. They didn't know what Lucas had in line for the Clone Wars in the early 90's. II would guess he didn't either.

 

[MaceB]

I don't mind in the slightest that the old EU was retired. I say that as someone who grew up with the EU canon. My favorites were from the Rogue series personally and I, Jedi. And yes... part of me is sad that I'll never get to see that version of Luke Skywalker... the emerging young master with his new batch of padawans... discovering the hidden secrets of the Jedi. But I understand completely why Lucasfilm had to reset that universe in order to go forward; the Execs wanted to make their own Star Wars stories, and I respect that.

What I don't appreciate, however, is retconning the prequels out of existence. I didn't like them, but they are part of the cinematic canon, and that should be respected. The prequels firmly centered the Star Wars main theme around "The Chosen One" prophecy, and the re-emergence of the Sith. That has now fundamentally changed, and it's unfortunate that in order to create something new, they feel like they need to destroy those two things. And, well, I consider Solo's surprise ending to be a break from the canon that was firmly applied at the end of TPM.

So, I guess my point is that - fine - throw away the EU.. no worries. But let's start grounding this continuity in something lasting and stable. There's nothing worse than when you're watching a serial that doesn't connect or worse... reverses back on itself constantly. (I'm looking at you 20th Century X-Men movies.) I can appreciate that it's difficult to weave together 4 decades of stories into one cohesive, consistent world.... but that's the task they signed up for... that's what the series needs at this point. A way to put the old and the new, together.

They were doing pretty admirably actually. But then TLJ happened, and man... where they go from here, is anyone's guess.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

What I don't appreciate, however, is retconning the prequels out of existence. I didn't like them, but they are part of the cinematic canon, and that should be respected. The prequels firmly centered the Star Wars main theme around "The Chosen One" prophecy, and the re-emergence of the Sith. That has now fundamentally changed, and it's unfortunate that in order to create something new, they feel like they need to destroy those two things. And, well, I consider Solo's surprise ending to be a break from the canon that was firmly applied at the end of TPM.

Clone Wars already changed that about the ending of TPM. You can't pin that one on Disney. That was Filoni and Lucas.

 

[Grootster]

Star Wars used to have such a cool system of canon. There was a hierarchy that favored certain mediums (movies > cartoons > games/novels/comics). It was utterly genius because it allowed a vast number of EU stories to be produced, but still reserved the option to overwrite them in a feature film if necessary. It worked on a business level and a creative level.

The idea of the new "single canon" is so dumb. It means multi-million dollar feature films have to be beholden to novels and whatnot. It only serves a business purpose, but it ties their hands creatively. This method has already presented huge storytelling problems. Darth Maul appeared in Solo without any reason given for his survival. As far as the general public is concerned, that character died on Naboo. "Watch our children's cartoon to figure out how Darth Maul survived! Only $24.95 on DVD!" But it's 'canon', so it's okay.

 

[Grootster]

All of that being said, the only "true canon" in my book are Lucas' original six. They're the only things that actually came from the mind of the creator. As much as I enjoy some of the novels, games, and even Rogue One; I don't consider them 'canon', rather just entertaining "what-if" stories that help build the universe.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Lucas created Clone Wars and was involved in a pretty significant way in every arc. In his eyes, it's as canon as the films.

 

[Greens]

All of that being said, the only "true canon" in my book are Lucas' original six. They're the only things that actually came from the mind of the creator. As much as I enjoy some of the novels, games, and even Rogue One; I don't consider them 'canon', rather just entertaining "what-if" stories that help build the universe.

Well, you're wrong. They are canon. Rogue One isn't a what-if story, it's something that directly relates to the opening crawl of Episode IV. There is no way it didn't happen.

 

[Grootster]

Well, you're wrong. They are canon. Rogue One isn't a what-if story, it's something that directly relates to the opening crawl of Episode IV. There is no way it didn't happen.

Well, Roue One didn't happen until 2 years ago. Before that there was an entirely different explanation for how the Death Star plans got stolen.

 

[KingCheops]

Well, Roue One didn't happen until 2 years ago. Before that there was an entirely different explanation for how the Death Star plans got stolen.

In the movies? Or in the EU?

 

[Marvolo]

In the movies? Or in the EU?

In the Legends (old EU).

 

[Grootster]

In the movies? Or in the EU?

In the EU there was an entirely different storyline for how the Death Star plans got stolen, which of course has now been overwritten.

I'm just saying that for me, the only 'real Star Wars' are the original 6 movies made under Lucas. Everything else, good or bad, just comes across as licensed fanfiction (including the sequel trilogy). I enjoy Rogue One and a lot of the old EU stuff more than the prequels (I even enjoy TFA more than at least one of the prequels), but for me it's not really on the same level.

 

[TheVileOne]

In Dark Forces, Kyle Katarn steals the plans.

 

[KingCheops]

Kyle Katarn is literally a Marty Stu (since he's your stand in in a video game) so I'm glad they didn't stick with that. Rogue One was a much better story. I also loved the Erso/Krennic storyline between Catalyst and the movie.