When Did 616 Hulk Start Killing?

[Kirk Langstrom]

I was reading the Illuminati special the other day, and got to the part where the SHIELD director tells Iron Man that the Hulk's latest rampage cost the lives of 26 people (and a dog)...

Shortly before that, in the prelude to Planet Hulk, it looked like he crushed the skull of a would-be rapist...

So...how long has this been going on?

The prime of my Hulk collecting was back in the seventies and eighties, under such writers as Len Wein and Bill Mantlo, and i'm pretty sure the Hulk had NEVER killed up to that point. I seem to remember an issue where someone comments on how surprised they are that the Hulk's rampages have never resulted in any fatalities... i read PAD's run sporadically, but STILL can't recall any instances with the Hulk actually killing anyone.

So is this a relatively new thing, or what?

 

[DBM]

So is this a relatively new thing, or what?

It must be. Because like you I can remember many times when it was stated that the Hulk had never caused anyone to die. In fact wasn't that a major story point just a few years ago? They were hunting down the Hulk because they thought he had finally killed someone, but it turned out he hadn't?

 

[Themanofbat]

I think Brian Azzarello's "Banner" mini-series that came out about 5 or 6 years ago was one of the first times I've ever heard about the Hulk killing.

They act like it's been happening all along these days.... maybe the Comic Code prohibited them from mentioning that the "hero" of a book killed people, thus why we ol'timers who've been reading the Hulk since Christ was on a cross are wondering that very question.

 

[Purple Man]

Here's how I see it.

The Hulk is a uncontrollable monster, and it would make very little to no sense that he's never killed a person in a fit of rage. This was never mentioned/shown in any of the older Hulk comics because Marvel always tried to sell him as a super hero. I think in truth he has killed many people, but I could be wrong, it all depends on what the decree of the writers are.

I always thought the Hulk in the Ultimates was how the Hulk was supposed to be, not having his own book Millar was allowed to have the Hulk act how he really would without trying to make him look like a hero.

Hulk is a monster with a deep down sensitive side, that side would keep him from killing some innocent people, but when in a full blown rage, I think he could destroy a large city without even thinking.

 

[Themanofbat]

I still remember the Hulk ripping Tigra in half (grabbed her ankles & ripped her apart) in the Last Avengers' story by Peter David.

It was awesome...

 

[euroq]

I'm pretty sure Hulk intentionally killed someone during PAD's run, I think it was during his time with the Pantheon.

But yeah, I don't think any of his rampages have lead to casualties.

 

[bkhedr]

I still remember the Hulk ripping Tigra in half (grabbed her ankles & ripped her apart) in the Last Avengers' story by Peter David.

It was awesome...

Awesome

you wouldnt happen to have a scan or issue number would you?

 

[gildea]

Bruce jones' run was based around the hulk finally accidently killing someone (but not really it turned out) so it's def. a new thing.

Not really complaining as it does make logical sense i suppose.

 

[Harlekin]

I'm pretty sure Hulk intentionally killed someone during PAD's run, I think it was during his time with the Pantheon.

But yeah, I don't think any of his rampages have lead to casualties.

Until the recent FF arc where he apparently killed a few people during his rampage in Las Vegas. It was just a convenient plot device to do the whole Planet Hulk thing.

 

[Mr. Green]

http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225708
I tell why it is lame that they say he kills people here.

 

[euroq]

Until the recent FF arc where he apparently killed a few people during his rampage in Las Vegas.

*shrug* There was no mention of casualties in that FF arc, I guess they were mentioned in another title.

 

[Mr. Green]

Until the recent FF arc where he apparently killed a few people during his rampage in Las Vegas. It was just a convenient plot device to do the whole Planet Hulk thing.

I can give them the Las Vegas thing. Hulk was not in his right mind as he was attacking Thing and Torch he was imagining certain events in his life. Rick Jones being saved turning him into Hulk, Jarella dying, that Jim guy dying, Betty being put into a catatonic state... Even then though, it would be purly accidental and do to falling buildings and stuff. Of course, if you read the issues, it is unlikely that 26 people and a dog were killed during these events.

What REALLY gets me though, is how they act like every damn week Hulk kills another bunch of innocents. Woops. Sorry about that folks. For some reason the Hulk has to kill people all the time now. He's still a hero though, he just kills more people than he saves is all...

I loved the issue. All EXCEPT that part of it.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Seems to me they're turning him into Ult. Hulk, this is his schtick.

 

[Mr. Green]

I still remember the Hulk ripping Tigra in half (grabbed her ankles & ripped her apart) in the Last Avengers' story by Peter David.

It was awesome...

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! PLEASE tell me what issue that is in so I can buy it this week!

 

[The Question]

Well, if you think about it, The Hulk never having caused the deaths of anyone doesn't make any sense. I mean, I know The Hulk is usually rather innocent, but with all the rampages he's had, it doesn't make any sense that no one died during any of them. If a huge green monster is knocking over buildings, someone's going to get dead.

 

[The Question]

I can give them the Las Vegas thing. Hulk was not in his right mind as he was attacking Thing and Torch he was imagining certain events in his life. Rick Jones being saved turning him into Hulk, Jarella dying, that Jim guy dying, Betty being put into a catatonic state... Even then though, it would be purly accidental and do to falling buildings and stuff. Of course, if you read the issues, it is unlikely that 26 people and a dog were killed during these events.

What REALLY gets me though, is how they act like every damn week Hulk kills another bunch of innocents. Woops. Sorry about that folks. For some reason the Hulk has to kill people all the time now. He's still a hero though, he just kills more people than he saves is all...

I loved the issue. All EXCEPT that part of it.

Well, when he goes on a rampage through a city, it makes perfect sense that he'd kill some people by accident. However, he shouldn't be murdering people intentionally. Remember, Banner has many personalities. Some are more benevolant (like the Savage Hulk and Joe Fixit, even though he's a *****ebag), and others are going to leave a heafty body count in their wake (like the Devil Hulk and the Mindless Hulk).

 

[Marcdachamp]

Well, to be honest, they never say he KILLED the 26 people and a dog. It's implied, but one could also interpret that they were injured.

 

[PWN3R]

Bendis prolly got confused with Ultimate Hulk.

 

[euroq]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! PLEASE tell me what issue that is in so I can buy it this week!

Themanofbat already said it, "The Last Avengers Story".

 

[Themanofbat]

"The Last Avengers' Story" was a 2 part deluxe format mini that came out around 1995. It's a futuristic tale where Ultron-59 kills the modern day Avengers and forces his creator, Henry Pym, to round up the old school Avengers or he'll kill them one by one.

It was an awesome tale at the time.

You can either dig up the 2 issues, or buy it via TPB (which may or may not be out of print... (I think it is ))

 

[Themanofbat]

There's a great read on it here....

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/earthlastavengers.htm

 

[Dread]

In a way, I see the "Hulk killing" thing as a sort of retcon to inject post-modern "realism" into his many rampages of yesteryear. Back when the Comics Code still mattered for something, you couldn't have the Hulk actually kill people during his rampages, even though it would have been very likely even unintentionally (if you collapse a building with people inside it often enough, someone is going to croak). Of course, the Hulk is also a sometimes hero so they had to keep his rampages "light" to make him relatable. But those times are gone. Now we are in age where if you choose to write a story where a female character is brutalized and/or raped, fans see it was a "strong character growth" moment. Fellow anti-heroes like Wolverine and Punisher (and Ghost Rider) have long body counts since the 90's. So I was not surprised when Bendis suddenly asserted that Hulk killed people in his rampages. It was a break from tradition, but that tradition always was a little implausable.

Of course, if Hulk had killed 26 people when he'd NEVER KILLED ANY BEFORE, that could justify the Illuminati's decision that the time was right to exile him off the Earth (even if it was reckless; surely Reed should have known better that the odds of SOMETHING happening to change Hulk's course to an unplanned planet were likely, given his own track record of flying into space). And it provided fodder for Namor's constant rebellion from the non-alliance.

 

[Lackey]

Bendis prolly got confused with Ultimate Hulk.

just like he gets Spider-Man confused with Ultimate Spider-Man

 

[Not Jake]

and how he gets everyone confused with jewish linguists

 

[The Question]

In a way, I see the "Hulk killing" thing as a sort of retcon to inject post-modern "realism" into his many rampages of yesteryear. Back when the Comics Code still mattered for something, you couldn't have the Hulk actually kill people during his rampages, even though it would have been very likely even unintentionally (if you collapse a building with people inside it often enough, someone is going to croak). Of course, the Hulk is also a sometimes hero so they had to keep his rampages "light" to make him relatable. But those times are gone. Now we are in age where if you choose to write a story where a female character is brutalized and/or raped, fans see it was a "strong character growth" moment. Fellow anti-heroes like Wolverine and Punisher (and Ghost Rider) have long body counts since the 90's. So I was not surprised when Bendis suddenly asserted that Hulk killed people in his rampages. It was a break from tradition, but that tradition always was a little implausable.

Of course, if Hulk had killed 26 people when he'd NEVER KILLED ANY BEFORE, that could justify the Illuminati's decision that the time was right to exile him off the Earth (even if it was reckless; surely Reed should have known better that the odds of SOMETHING happening to change Hulk's course to an unplanned planet were likely, given his own track record of flying into space). And it provided fodder for Namor's constant rebellion from the non-alliance.

Good points all around. Like I said, I'm not too suprised by The Hulk having any kind of body count, because he's got more than a few personalities, and not all of them are very nice. The Savage Hulk might vent his anger in the desert so he won't hurt anyone, but the mindless Hulk would tear through a populated area, killing hundreds of people, and not give a crap.