Which are Batman's most reviled stories?

Milk Tray Guy

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Yes I said REVILED, not 'revered'! :yay:

I'm a decades-long Batman fan, but it has to be said there are a few Batman stories that attract very strong - even vitriolic - criticism, such as Alan Moore's The Killing Joke, Mike Barr's Year Two, and Frank Miller's All-Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder.

Now for me TKJ is the second greatest CB story ever told (and is held in high regard by a lot of people - although it does have a very vocal group of detractors), Y2 is entertaining enough when taken as its own thing (and always felt like an 'Elseworlds' to me anyway), and ASB&RtBW is hilarious if read as a satire (still not sure if Miller intended it as such). But as I say, not everyone - to put it mildly - feels that way...

So which Batman comics stories do you feel come in for the heaviest criticism, and in your opinion do they deserve it? And what are your thoughts on the three that I listed?
 
A little offtopic but which CB story do you rank as the greatest and above TKJ?
 
Hey celebrimor and welcome :up:

For me the all-time greatest is Kingdom Come :hmr:
 
1jql4n_zps1d53e06c.jpg


Whatever story this is. It's either greatest of all time or needs to be obliterated from the face of the Earth. :o
 
I think the pic above is of the Jean Paul Valley Batman. As to most reviled, I would say The Dark Night Strikes Again and All Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder are neck and neck. Miller hates Dick Grayson.
 
I think the pic above is of the Jean Paul Valley Batman.

Pretty sure you're right.

As to most reviled, I would say The Dark Night Strikes Again and All Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder are neck and neck. Miller hates Dick Grayson.
Ah yes, I was forgetting TDKSA!
 
I think a strong argument can be made that War Games would qualify as the most reviled Batman story, at least for ones published in my lifetime. ASBAR was at least an alternate continuity storyline and had its own (utterly insane) internal logic. War Games wound up being about killing of Stephanie Brown for cheap heat on Black Mask and dirtying Leslie Thimpkins up. All so we could get Black Mask as major villain to be fed to Red Hood and a moderately more lone-wolf Batman.

It's pretty easily the worst Batman Family Arc from Post-Crisis to Infinite Crisis (and the last one before the latter as well), and not only was it a bad story, it took place during Nightwing's "Born Again: Grayson Addition" under Devin Grayson, which wound up leading to a pretty terrible situation; her story was put on a months long hold, and we were supposed to cheer for Nightwing's rapist.
 
Thanks for posting godisawesome :up: I honestly wasn't aware that War Games drew so much heavy criticism. I haven't read it since it first came out - maybe I should revisit...
 
I just love posting that image because of how 'bat'**** insane it looks. :D

As for actual books I think are the worst, while not a direct Batbook, I'd say Identity Crisis did a lot of stupid **** that had long term consequences for Batman characters.They killed off Tims Father for no good reason, the entire thing was idiotic and either Batman, Mr Terrific or any number of other people should have figured out what was wrong within a few hours due to the cause of death being obvious enough that even regular doctors/coroners can figure it out within a few hours since she basically died of a stroke. Superman spending twenty seconds looking at it should have found the cause, never mind anyone else.

Of course, that's ignoring the rest of the bull**** the story had.
 
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One of the worst batman arcs I ever suffered through was David Lapham's City of Crime.
 
War Games was bad. I also hated The Widening Gyre. Not sure if that's cannon. But
killing off Silver St Cloud and having Onomonopeia as the main villain
just reeks of Kevin Smith's hubris. Plus the Batman peed his pants fiasco need not be mentioned.
 
One of the worst batman arcs I ever suffered through was David Lapham's City of Crime.

Have to confess I've not read that :huh: Just looked it up and was intrigued by the comment 'This graphic novel has also been praised by "bringing horror back to Batman" ' (Wikipedia).
 
It's been a while since I read it, but I really liked City of Crime a lot. I've also been meaning to jump into War Games because the concept is really interesting.

I think the single most foul Batman comic I've ever read were the first two issues of Batman: Odyssey though. The first two issues were some of the most poorly written, needlessly convoluted pieces of crap I've ever had the misfortune to read. And from what I understand, the rest of the series fared no better.

All-Star Batman & Robin and Dark Knight Strikes Again are bizarre works, but they're written and drawn by people who have a pretty firm sense of what they're doing. They may be "bad" in the sense that you don't like the end result. But those two issues Odyssey felt like they were written by by someone who has no idea what the hell a story is, and has never told one ever. Which is even more strange, because Neal Adams has worked with some of the best writers in the business. It was just disgustingly bad.
 
I think the single most foul Batman comic I've ever read were the first two issues of Batman: Odyssey though. The first two issues were some of the most poorly written, needlessly convoluted pieces of crap I've ever had the misfortune to read. And from what I understand, the rest of the series fared no better.

All-Star Batman & Robin and Dark Knight Strikes Again are bizarre works, but they're written and drawn by people who have a pretty firm sense of what they're doing. They may be "bad" in the sense that you don't like the end result. But those two issues Odyssey felt like they were written by by someone who has no idea what the hell a story is, and has never told one ever. Which is even more strange, because Neal Adams has worked with some of the best writers in the business. It was just disgustingly bad.

Interesting - thanks.
 
Batman: Odyssey, for sure. Just no contest. It's like one of those weird 50's Batman in space stories, without space and with gore. The story (if you can even call it a story..it's just a bunch of word balloons..) is just all over te place, and Neal Adams art isn't what it used to be anymore.
 
I couldn't event attempt Batman Odyssey. Neal Adams is a legend, but dude should of hung it up a long time ago.
 
I couldn't event attempt Batman Odyssey. Neal Adams is a legend, but dude should of hung it up a long time ago.

I attempted.
You made the right call.
It was interesting enough for the art, although I prefer the disciplined, gorgeous perfection of his '60's and '70's work. Looser, or his particular version of 'cartoony', doesn't work for Adams, IMHO. But Adams drawing Batman is always worthy of attention.
 
And I can be listed among the very vocal Killing Joke detractors.
To the point that if I meet someone who loves it, it disturbs me a little. Like meeting someone who loves torture-porn horror movies. Don't really want to get involved with that person, like a red flag.

I know that's on me, not them. But that's how much I despise The Killing Joke.
 
And I can be listed among the very vocal Killing Joke detractors.
To the point that if I meet someone who loves it, it disturbs me a little. Like meeting someone who loves torture-porn horror movies. Don't really want to get involved with that person, like a red flag.

I know that's on me, not them. But that's how much I despise The Killing Joke.

Lol. I totally understand!
 
I have never read a single issue of Frank Miller's "All-Star Batman & Robin." Why not? In large part because of my severe disappointment when I read Miller's "Dark Knight Strikes Again."

Online comments from other Batman fans have made it clear to me that I was far from being the only one who had hoped for something with the same emotional impact as Miller's "Dark Knight Returns" . . . and didn't get it. So I suggest that DKSA is a serious contender for "most reviled" . . . although I don't have any statistics to back it up. (For instance, I've never seen anyone taking a Gallup poll on the subject.)
 
I have never read a single issue of Frank Miller's "All-Star Batman & Robin." Why not? In large part because of my severe disappointment when I read Miller's "Dark Knight Strikes Again."

Online comments from other Batman fans have made it clear to me that I was far from being the only one who had hoped for something with the same emotional impact as Miller's "Dark Knight Returns" . . . and didn't get it. So I suggest that DKSA is a serious contender for "most reviled" . . . although I don't have any statistics to back it up. (For instance, I've never seen anyone taking a Gallup poll on the subject.)

Out of interest have you read the prequel, Dark Knight Returns: The Last Crusade?
 
War Games was bad. I also hated The Widening Gyre. Not sure if that's cannon. But
killing off Silver St Cloud and having Onomonopeia as the main villain
just reeks of Kevin Smith's hubris. Plus the Batman peed his pants fiasco need not be mentioned.



I was planning on bringing that one up as soon as I finished reading the posts, so I'm glad somebody else did. I was a fan of Smith's movies when I was like 12 or 13, and I can't really explain why, maybe because I'm just a terrible person, but Smith annoys the hell outta me, him and those guys from Comic Book Men, they remind me of the kinda people I overhear hanging out at my local comic shop, just pretentious and *****ey and like they have to find something to feel superior over others, even if it's comic knowledge or video games or fantasy card games or "clever banter".


And you nailed it. Smith's Batman stories just have Kevin Smith written all over them, he thinks he's being clever, but it's just bad. Annoyed me a little that he was so negative about BvS, but I imagine his script for Superman Returns was absolute garbage.




I keep telling myself I need to reread Dark Knight Strikes Again, I only read it once, but I just know that I'm going to struggle to get through it again. I imagine it's the same way a lot of the people who hated BvS feel when they watch it, "I should be loving this, but...". I remember reading a lot of the reviews (this was just after I had read Year One and Dark Knight Returns), but I bought DKSA anyways because "Surely, this has to be great, as well, maybe it's just misunderstood..." But, I really struggled to get through it, and follow the story, and the artwork just seemed so sloppy and rushed. The whole thing felt like he was just freestyle drawing and writing without stopping, and it just came out one big mess, and they said "Screw it, print it anyways."


So just for Disappointment Factor, I'd say DKSA is in the running for most reviled.



And this might be an unpopular opinion, I really like a lot of the Batman centered Grant Morrison stories, like Final Crisis, Return Of Bruce Wayne, Son Of Batman, I think there is a lot of greatness to them, but I also kinda wish he had toned back a little bit, some of it is just too "out there", hard to follow, jumping around too much. They would've benefitted from being a little more focused, I think, less abstract.

Maybe not, though. Those are also stories I only read once, and need to read again. I might go back and think they're perfect, as is.
 
And this might be an unpopular opinion, I really like a lot of the Batman centered Grant Morrison stories, like Final Crisis, Return Of Bruce Wayne, Son Of Batman, I think there is a lot of greatness to them, but I also kinda wish he had toned back a little bit, some of it is just too "out there", hard to follow, jumping around too much. They would've benefitted from being a little more focused, I think, less abstract.

I'm not a huge fan of Grant Morrison but I did enjoy The Return of Bruce Wayne. However I agree with what you said (above, in bold). I know by the very nature of that story it jumps around, but I've read stories that do a similar thing that were easier to follow. As I said though, overall I did enjoy it.
 

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