Which film is better? Thor or Thor: the Dark World?

Discussion in 'Thor: The Dark World' started by psylockolussus, Oct 31, 2013.

?

Which film is better

  1. Thor (2011)

  2. Thor: The Dark World (2013)

  3. Tie

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Ragnaroknroll

    Ragnaroknroll Well-Known Member

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    I love both of the Thor films but still have to give the edge to TDW. To each his own but I just don't get the hate for Thor 2 some of you guys have. I thought it was so much fun. As far as the MCU goes I personally rate it just behind Avengers even after seeing Winter Solider two times which I thought was a stellar film as well but the films couldn't be more different from each other. Cap can do grounded. Thor is fantasy and is the farthest thing from grounded. I like how Marvel assigns the right tone to the right material.

    In fact I love the entire Phase 2 so far. I'm having a blast. I'll admit I'm wary of Guardians though. It could be awesome or it could be total cheese. Even so I'll be there opening weekend.
     
    #276
  2. Ragnaroknroll

    Ragnaroknroll Well-Known Member

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    ^^ This! ^^

    x1000

    When I think of potential stories like this it makes me realize that even if Marvel never gets back their heavy hitters they can still make interesting films for many years yet.

    EDIT: Actually I could see Marvel doing an entire series based on Tales of Asgard - the only downside is you wouldn't get the same big budget to really bring the fantastical realms to life. However, Game of Thrones isn't skimping on budget it seems and looks incredible IMO.
     
    #277
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  3. Ragnaroknroll

    Ragnaroknroll Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree with this at all. How was Thor all Mjolnir? How was he unfit to lead? He took command of the battle of Vanaheim, swiftly turned the tide and ended things quite decisively. He played trickster to Loki, devised the plan out of Asgard and the scheme to extract the Aether, convinced his friends to aid him and even enlisted the help of Heimdall in a way that did not make him a traitor before Odin. He laid everything on the line and never surrendered and battled without Mjolnir against an enemy empowered by an Infinity Gem.
     
    #278
  4. Ragnaroknroll

    Ragnaroknroll Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - I think the battle in Jotunheim from the first film is the closest thing we've seen to showing Thor's true power. But for Thor 3, we really need to see him cut loose. I want to see him utilize his powers of weather manipulation and flying against a foe physically much larger than him. Surtur, Fenris, Jormungand, Ymir, etc. - and don't make it an easy knock out blow like he delivered to the Jotun ice beast or the Kronan. I want to see a titanic slugfest where victory is narrowly won and Thor's clothes are shredded and burned and he should be covered in blood. He should look worse than he did after fighting Kurse.
     
    #279
  5. Ragnaroknroll

    Ragnaroknroll Well-Known Member

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    Agree on the durability. I really liked that too. I wish Kurse hadn't died because I would have loved a rematch between those guys.
     
    #280
  6. First Avenger

    First Avenger Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree about Phase 2,I LOVED it so far and TWS was absolutely incredible and yet completely different from TDW and IM3 of course.
     
    #281
  7. Vartha

    Vartha Mod of Thunder

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    Bet Bor knew how to also
     
    #282
  8. Vartha

    Vartha Mod of Thunder

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    Can't wait to see What AoU Thor will look like.
     
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  9. BoredGuy

    BoredGuy Chairman of the Bored

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    Agreed to Disagree

    He "commanded" the battle in Vanaheim by showing up and kicking the crap out of a handful of dudes, then destroys the Rock dude and everyone surrenders. Yeah, "good job commander! we got friggin Patton over here!"

    His plan to get out of Asgard was take Loki and run, and "oh well switch ships at one point because Asgardians sentries are just the worst."

    His plan to get the Aether out of Jane was stupid and Selfish, and resulted in Maelkith taking the Aether, Thor getting his ass kicked, and loki getting "killed". It was a really dumb plan devised seemingly so they could fool the audience in trailers.

    He also didn't do much in the way of "convincing" his friends to help so much as asking and they went along like they always do (even in the comics, the warriors three aren't exactly headstrong)

    And yeah, the slapstick battle with Malekith with the hammer chasing them everywhere really cemented Thor's strength. That's why he had to take a train to get back to the battle and didn't actually do anything tremendously effective to the villain until the hammer finally made its way back to him.

    The way they time out the climax, Mjonir saves the day more than Thor does.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  10. Ragnaroknroll

    Ragnaroknroll Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what you're expecting. It seems to me you're confusing perfection with ability to lead. His plan to remove the Aether was suspect but Thor's always been headstrong and reckless at times. It's a character trait. His motives are mixed but he is also concerned about his people. His friends follow him through danger. He persuaded them to go along with releasing Loki. He pursuaded Loki to even want to help him. His plan to get out of Asgard involved several ruses and required teamwork.

    As far as using Mjolnir to deal the final blow, how exactly was Thor supposed to defeat an enemy empowered by an Infinity Gem unarmed? How did he not do anything effective until that time? He stalled Malekith and prevented him from unleashing the Aether into the Convergence which would have been game over. And how exactly does he get back to Greenwich with out his primary means of travel? I thought that was a great way to highlight a weakness of Thor. Thor is so powerful you have to devise ways to challenge and frustrate him. Through it all he never gives up. That's what makes Thor Thor. Not just the fact that he can whip up a whirlwind. Thor never ever gives up even when he is handicapped, outmatched and outgunned.

    Yeah I guess we do have to agree to disagree.
     
    #285
  11. BoredGuy

    BoredGuy Chairman of the Bored

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    I'll agree that's what they were trying to convey in the film
    but I think they failed miserably
     
    #286
  12. Mjölnir

    Mjölnir Guest

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    I hope they continue on the general artistic design that TDW brought. They did great work on that point.

    Him doing the only thing he could think of that would not mean that many Asgardian lives would be lost is selfish? I guess everyone interprets things the way they want to.
     
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  13. BoredGuy

    BoredGuy Chairman of the Bored

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    Well my main question was, why not take her to Jotunheim or some other desolate little corner of the universe???

    were the only two options really: Keep it amongst millions of innocent Asgardians or Fly it right to Malekiths home in Svartelheim?

    Like, you wanna protect Asgard? ok, check. "How do we do that?" "I know, let's go to the Dark Elves home, offer up Jane to Malekith, and then just as he's torn this potential deadly cosmic force from her body, i'll zap the aether with some lightning!"

    what Jane should've said: "Thor, let's let Loki do the thinking, mmkay?"

    and I said selfish because he put saving Jane over, basically, the fate of all 9 realms in that moment
    he put Malekith right where he needed to be to get the Aether, and his only contingency was to electrify it

    I like gullible or naive Thor, but outright dumb Thor is not my favorite
     
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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  14. Ragnaroknroll

    Ragnaroknroll Well-Known Member

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    I don't at all but you're entitled to your opinion.

    The Dark Elves were going to come for the Aether no matter what. If it stayed in defenseless Asgard Thor believed it would've ended up in their hands anyway and many lives would be lost in vain. If he took it anywhere else they would still come for it. It's just like the One Ring. You can't hide it forever so you must destroy it. Thor's plan was to extract it so he could destroy it. He needed to be close enough to destroy it. Hence the ruse. He didn't know it couldn't be destroyed. Only Bor knew that - unless it was in the ancient writing and Odin knew as well but he certainly never told him.
     
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  15. Mjölnir

    Mjölnir Guest

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    So you think sacrificing a person, let alone a love interest, for the greater good sounds like Thor? That's not the Thor I know, and I'm not just talking MCU here. He'd try to save everyone, just like he says in the movie, and that's pretty much the opposite of being selfish. Thor is not an anti-hero, like you seem to want him to be.
     
    #290
  16. The_Manhunter

    The_Manhunter DCEU & MCU Fan

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    How would he know?
     
    #291
  17. BoredGuy

    BoredGuy Chairman of the Bored

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    I didn't say I want him to be an anti-hero, I just think any smart, battle experienced person knows sacrifices have to happen for the greater good, no way around it. To assume you can save "everyone" is beyond stupid, not even God-god can do that (if you believe in that sort of thing).

    it could have something to do with my overall hatred of the Jane character at this point too, lol

    oh one last bit, how did he even think lightning would destroy the Aether, what in the world gave him that idea?
    He's smarter than this in the comics (usually)
     
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    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  18. Vartha

    Vartha Mod of Thunder

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    He was born while the Dark was in control, how would he NOT know?

    BOR like ODIN don't let everyone KNOW the whole truth. He didn't tell Odin that the Dark Elves LIVED or that the Aether was still around for example
     
    #293
  19. Chance Jackson

    Chance Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Im pretty sure in Odin's Opening Narration he mentions the Aether could not be destroyed
     
    #294
  20. Ragnaroknroll

    Ragnaroknroll Well-Known Member

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    Well Thor does try to save everyone - for better or worse. That's who he is. With all the power he possesses he truly believes he can overcome all odds and he will never stop trying. I thought Mjolnir's point above was a good one.

    Mjolnir is one of the most powerful weapons in the universe - he probably just figured if anything could destroy it Mjolnir could. I'm sure he just gave it his best shot. And I'm not sure it was just lightening. He did not summon it from the sky - the power came from Mjolnir itself.
     
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  21. Ragnaroknroll

    Ragnaroknroll Well-Known Member

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    No- during that narration Odin said that they believed the Aether was no more. It was Bor himself that said it could not be destroyed during his private dialog with the Einherjar. The more I think about it even Odin did not know its true nature because knowing his impulsive son, he would've shot down Thor's plan right away.

    I'm sure the reason Bor let antiquity think it was destroyed was so that no one would ever seek it out. Malekith used the destruction of Svartalfheim to cover his tracks. Bor did not know that Malekith was still alive.
     
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  22. Saturius

    Saturius Well-Known Member

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    I've tried to rewatch TDW so many times trying to get more enjoyment out of it, but every time I'm just left disappointed. So I have to give the win to Thor, a film, for all of it's flaws, I can rewatch and still get a lot of enjoyment out of. I just don't get that from TDW.

    I just don't agree with a lot of the direction the creators tried to take many of the characters into with this film. The first film just had stronger arcs and many of the characters had a place and purpose, whereas in this one a lot of them just feel wasted.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  23. Vartha

    Vartha Mod of Thunder

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    He also said it was lost or something to that effect to Thor and Jane in the library.
    What ODIN says in his library and What is said at the beginning about Bor and the Darkelves contradict each other.

    Basically just because we hear Odin talking at the beginning doesn't mean Odin KNOWS what really happened with Bor, since both seem to hold back a lot of truths
     
    #298
  24. Vartha

    Vartha Mod of Thunder

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    yeah, many people are the same way. I'm a fan and LOVE TDW more than Thor. I hold no grudge. lol
    I know people that love TDW just because of the LOOK of the film and not so much the script
     
    #299
  25. Ragnaroknroll

    Ragnaroknroll Well-Known Member

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    No. Odin may have thought that initially but after the incident in the soul forge he puts two and two together and correctly surmises that it is the Aether within Jane. He then proceeds to tell the story of the Dark Elves in the library. But at this point they have already discovered it so they know it's not destroyed. I don't see how this is a contradiction.
     
    #300

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