M
Mjölnir
Guest
I liked one and not the other?
Thor-9/10
Thor: TDW: 8/10
I dont mean to offend, but that statement is ridiculous, I liked both movies, as I have stated repeatedly, and their ratings are not hugely different. I am not biased and I am not trying to reinforce my opinion, I am STATING my opinion. Malekith was a bad villain, Loki was a good one IMO.
The "liked one and not the other" referred to the villains, not the movies. I was just saying that it was the only logical reason I could find for stating something like that because your assessments of Loki's and Malekith's actions were very unequal. One was a favorable view on what happened, the other one was the opposite. I've shown that by applying your tone on Malekith on Loki's actions.
It's not about you thinking that Malekith is a bad villain (I suggest reading that twice), it's about that you argued Malekith was bad by saying that he didn't do anything. That's what I argued against but I just keep getting answers that have to do with something else (that you think I'm arguing against you thinking that Malekith was bad).
I've even said that there are plenty of arguments why someone could dislike Malekith that wouldn't be illogical or wrong so I'm very open to people not liking him, or the movie for that matter.
By the end of Thor 1, Loki's actions effected many people in a negative way, His Father, Mother, Brother, his brothers love and her friends, the whole of Asgard couldnt travel anywere due to the bifrost being down, there are more, but you get my point.
Malekith's actions dont really effect anyone in a negative way by the end of the movie, hell Darcy and co were even making jokes during his attempted distruction. Loki caused more pain in this movie than Malekith did.
So you mean that Frigga wasn't affected negatively at the end of the movie? I must have missed her resurrection. I didn't see Odin manage to come to terms with the sorrow that drove him to become like Malekith either. Similar to not being able to use the Bifrost, Malekith's actions made it so that the Aether is now in the hands of the Collector.
Malekith also caused some good change, since the change in Thor originated from what Malekith did and what effects came out of that.
Thor's coronation and him going to Jotunheim and then getting banished all happened in one day, the next day Odin fell into the Odin sleep, He didnt really have a lot of time to make plans, and as you said yourself, Thor WAS going to be king, Odin didnt have anything prepared in case that didnt come to pass as it was unexpected it wouldnt.
Of course he would have had time to tell the person he wanted to be in charge. He could have done that right after he banished Thor and would logically have done so if he expected to go into the Odinsleep the day after.
But that's not the preparation I was talking about. Frigga said that she was unsure if he would wake up because they were unprepared for him to go into the Odinsleep. That's a very significant statement to that it was completely unplanned. Just as if Odin expected to sleep he wouldn't be wandering about doing other small stuff. And if neither Frigga nor Odin himself expected it then Loki sure as hell wouldn't know it if they don't show him finding out in the movie.
But that's pretty moot because he couldn't even know that Odin would banish Thor. Thor would have done stupid things for centuries, probably often due to Loki's schemes.
If you separate Kurse from Algrim (which I guess is always his name in the movie) then I get your point about that. As for being more of a threat, I disagree. Kurse was a real badass in combat (against a Thor without Mjolnir though) but that's pretty weak in comparison to someone basically capable of ending the universe. Malekith was also unkillable until he was teleported away from the Aether.But he didnt become Kurse until about 10/15 mins in either, so he hardly had any screen time, and yet still came across as more of a threat that Malekith. Loki was closer to achieving his goals than Malekith was as well. Thor had to make a big sacrifice to stop Loki, he didnt to stop Malekith.
As for Loki as a threat, he didn't pose much threat to Thor. Thor ended the fight easily when he just decided he had enough while Malekith took the biggest hits Thor has given anyone in a movie and made him fly away further than when Kurse hit him. I agree about the sacrifice though.
I disagree back , Loki's actions had big implications for the 9 realms and that was even before his death. Thor states in Avengers many people mourned Loki's death, I didnt see anyone mourning Frigga for more than 5 mins. Again this may be down to the director, but Loki's actions seemed to have a much bigger impact than Malekith's.
If you didn't disagree with me I couldn't disagree with you.
When Loki "dies" we get about 15 seconds of reactions from Odin and Thor. The next time we see Asgard there's a feast and people are laughing and telling stories of glory. That's not grieving whatsoever so possibly only Loki's immediate family is actually mourning. The only thing that's said about Loki is that Sif tells Frigga she's sorry for her loss, and Frigga says that Thor mourns his brother and misses Jane. Thor and Odin just talk about Thor and then Thor goes to Heimdall to ask about Jane.
When Frigga dies we get the same reactions, although longer. Then we get a huge funeral scene (certainly no laughing there), we get Odin losing his mind over the loss and starts to turn into a Malekith kind of person, Loki wrecks both his cell and himself and even joins Thor and even puts his life on the line to help him because he's so hungry for revenge. That's much more reaction than the first movie gave us.
Well I wouldnt say its a fact because IMO he has no arc. At the start when talking to Odin he basically says he doesnt want to be king, then he says the same at the end, to me, thats no arc.
In the beginning of the movie he has assumed all the responsibilities he has as heir to the throne. He's leading Asgard's forces, he does all that Odin tells him to do (including not contacting Jane). I don't remember anything at all that suggests that he's not on the way to become king.
When the movie ends he says that he's learned what it takes to rule, that it's not what he wants and that Loki always understood it better than he. He walks away from what he was doing at the start of the movie, choosing Jane over Odin and Asgard.
I can't see how anyone could suggest that he starts and ends in the same place (although you can of course technically have an arc where that happens as well).
See Sams next post, he states why Malekith is a bad villain. I was originally agreeing with Sam not because he states Malekith doesnt succeed, but because he says he's bad villain. I didnt state that because I was responding to him and not you.
And as my answer to that post, and several things I've written in our discussion, show I don't have any problems with anyone thinking he was boring, flat or whatever it may be. That's never been what I've argued against, as the first section of this post tries to clarify.