Who are we blaming for the Sprexit?

Discussion in 'Spider-Man Sequels' started by Silvermoth, Aug 22, 2019.

?

Who’s fault is it?

  1. Sony’s

    17 vote(s)
    32.7%
  2. Disney’s

    16 vote(s)
    30.8%
  3. Both equally to blame

    14 vote(s)
    26.9%
  4. There are no villains

    5 vote(s)
    9.6%
  1. GuestStar2004 Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Messages:
    23,076
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    I do not know, but one thing is for sure Disney were still making bank on the spider-man movies due to merch. so i do not think they needed to take a huge grab at trying to get more from the deal.
     
    spiderman2 likes this.
  2. Yowza Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    456
    What I don't understand is what merchandising rights cover and doesn't cover. I read even with deal falling through, Disney can still use the character at their theme park so that seems to suggest it's only merchandise tied to film that Sony would stand to profit from with no new deal signed with Disney?

    I think merchandise tie in profits I need to understand if this is the case and what the cutoff line merchandise wise is to really know how much Sony gave up and how much profit Marvel Studios makes under thethe deal that was in place for the 2 Spiderman movies that have come out.
     
    #27 Yowza, Aug 23, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  3. Jordanstine Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    50
    Variety’s sourcing is definitely on Sony’s side of things.

    Saying it was Disney who basically didn’t want Spider-man anymore, yet they somehow printed giant banners of Spidey to showcase him with Marvel Studios at their big D23 Expo is hilarious!

    Also that blurb in their article about Tom Rothman being a master negotiator, made me puke in my mouth.
     
  4. Jordanstine Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    50
    It was a sweet arse deal for Sony.

    - Sony never had to pay Feige a producer credit fee, meaning Feige basically worked on both Spidey films pro bono for Sony. Amy Pascal who was no longer involved with Sony got paid $10 million per movie for laying on the beach.

    - Sony was hoping when it came time to negotiate a new deal with Feige that he would still oversee Spidey 3 and Spidey 4 for the same pro bono rate as the old deal, while also asking him to add Venom and their other Spidey projects on his already full plate so they could be part of the MCU. Why in the world would Feige want to get more work from Sony if he’s not getting the fee he deserves? You do a good job for a company, if the company asks you to do more work, then they should also give you a raise.

    - Sony and Disney actually has a deal currently still in place where Disney pays Sony $30 million a year for merchandise. But it was Sony who sold all their Spider-man merchandise rights to Disney for $175 million.
     
  5. GuestStar2004 Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Messages:
    23,076
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    The deal with sony allowed Disney to control the merchandising. basically every time a new costume was added to the movies it was a new toy Disney could sell, which is probably why there were multiple costumes in the last movie. but then Disney could also profit from into the spiderverse with no effort made.

    When it comes down to it... yeah Disney are profiting either way, Sony would be helping Disney profit more while they profit less. so its a case of trying to come up with something both are happy with. and if one side gets extra greedy then thats probably on them.
     
  6. Jordanstine Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    50
    Remember this tweet?



    In other words, Feige wants to be compensated for all the work he will put in the next two Spidey films and whatever else projects Sony wants him to oversee (Venom 2, etc.)

    It’s kind of hilarious that after the deal fell through, Sony released a statement that basically said it fell apart because “Feige will be too busy working on Disney’s new Marvel IPs”. Joke of a statement.
     
  7. Jordanstine Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    50
    These negotiations is not just about Spider-man.

    Sony is not just negotiating Spider-man’s next appearance in the MCU, but they’re also negotiating with Disney to bring Venom, Morbius, and whatever other projects they have into the MCU.

    That’s why these negotiations have become a mess.
     
  8. Frodo Registered

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    1,822
    The latest article from Variety explains why Sony may have alluded to new IP's. It was basically a shot at Disney in which Sony is basically arguing that Disney's motivations in wanting 50/50 have more to do with wanting Feige to focus soley on the IPs they own outright as opposed to Spiderman which they don't own.

    Basically the statement is trying to divide Feige and Disney by saying they would still like to work with Feige but that its Disney that pulled him.
     
  9. Frodo Registered

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    1,822
    John Campea and Screenjunkies news have made the best videos explaining what's going .
     
  10. MahvelBaby! Registered

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    6,930
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    Feige definitely should be compensated
     
  11. Jordanstine Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    50
    Not Campea, he’s been mixing up the story saying “so and so wants what” all incorrectly and getting his sourcing all wrong since the news broke. If you like Campea’s opinion that’s fine, but never ever trust him when it comes to him quoting sources.
     
  12. MarvelRudi Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2018
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    8
    Disney helped Sony make Spider-man into a billion dollar franchise and for them to only receive 5% of the revenue is a bit low. Do people really think spider-man would have made a billion dollar without the help of marvel? I doubt it. Spider-man in the MCU would not have added as much to the revenue.

    Also Disney already owned 100% merchandise which they bought from Sony, why should Disney give Sony that piece of the pie?

    If i understand this correctly Disney want to co-finance the spider-man movies for which they want 50% of the revenue...i don't see anything wrong in that if they are providing 50% of the finance. From the point of view of Sony 50% probably is too much to give away...i think 35% ideal for both sides.
     
  13. Frodo Registered

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    1,822
    Campea and Screenjukies are basically saying the same thing with regard to the known facts and claims from Deadline , so that's separate from whatever opinion I have about his opinions.

    I really don't got hung up on someone's opinions since I form my own based on what information I know. I will get hung up if they misrepresent facts or arguments.

    I was basically cited those two because they summarized what anyone can read for themselves in Deadline most correctly while lots of other geek pundits clearly didn't understand or read the actual articles.

    Now , I will qualify that there's been a follow up Deadline article and Variety's article yesterday, both which seem to reflect each of the studios different sides.
     
  14. MahvelBaby! Registered

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    6,930
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    After reading deadlines latest article I'm definitely leaning toward Sony being to blame they are using the media to try to play the victim.
     
  15. MahvelBaby! Registered

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    6,930
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    Deadline can't even get their story straight
     
  16. Yowza Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    456
    I wish these sources would just print the facts instead of going back/forth with them and unveiling shifting certain pieces of info. that were already reported on. For example citing that Sony had the offer of 25% for 6 months then upped to 50% only after FFH. Just bits like that keep shifting and going back/forth as far as % goes. It's ridiculous.
     
  17. Sony23 Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    110
    While my initial reaction was to blame Sony based on their history,after hearing several sources, I blame it entirely on Disney. They are asking for a co-financing deal that would essentially give them the right to the character - something Sony would never agree too. No company would agree to what Disney was asking for. Do I think they deserve more? Of course. But 50/50 is ludicrous for a character they don't own.

    The aim on Disney's part would be to make having Spider-Man in the MCU an attractive incentive on Sony's part instead of going it alone. If Disney gets a 50/50 split, Sony might as well make their own Spider-Man movies and keep the BO for themselves. Disney is just being greedy. It's not like they need the money.
     
  18. Ihmago Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2018
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    162
    There's a reason why Disney went to Sony with the original deal 5 years ago... Because it works for them. Now it's time to renegotiate and they asked for 10 times more? I have the feeling they knew Sony would have said "no".
    It just doesnt work for them when they can make a bad Spiderman movie and still make 700 millions in the box office instead of making a billion with Disney and giving them half (meaning they only earn 500 millions for those bada at math :p). Which studio in their right mind would agree to those terms? Pls tell me.
     
  19. The Caped Knight Shield Avenger

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    33,152
    Likes Received:
    2,682
    At the end of the day this about Greed on both sides for different reasons. Sony has a bit more at fault because their trying desperately to stay a float as a film company since most of their respective projects have crashed and burned. For Disney it's just to see that they get a fare share of the profits since the MCU has become this enormous bankable franchise.

    However I believe that they'll come to some sort of arrangement that benefits both parties. Because if they don't I'm confident this will backfire badly in both directions
     
  20. MahvelBaby! Registered

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    6,930
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    Changed vote to Sony they really pooped the bed leaking to the media.
     
  21. Webfoot Hero West Coaster

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2012
    Messages:
    12,633
    Likes Received:
    1,686
    I went with both are to blame (in any contract dispute, both sides share a certain percentage of fault for failure) but I fault Sony a bit more as more stuff came out that they basically sat on a pretty good fair for months without any type of answer and also tried to say Marvel wouldn't negotiate below 50%. They then tried to make it like Feige was too busy to continue working on the films when it was more about getting fair compensation for his time instead of the peanuts that Sony thought they could continue getting away with paying Marvel Studios for their services.
     
    MahvelBaby! likes this.
  22. m2k Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2017
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    194
    There's nobody at fault here. It's Sony's license and their free to do with it whatever they want. The partnership was a temporary contract and it's been fulfilled. Regardless of the offers being reported, I believe Sony never had any intention of renewing.

    They seriously believe they can make their cinematic universe work here and of course, Spidey has to be the centerpiece for them to fully realize that. Duh. Some laughed at the notion at the time, but the success of Venom has truly changed the circumstances of the IPs for SoNY. If it fails with the next couple of films, they can just come running back to Disney looking to deal. If it works and everything ties in neatly however, the potential from a successful universe is monumentally higher than the split proceeds from one MCU Spidey flick every 2 years. They're thinking it's probably a worthwhile gamble to take.

    Having said all that, of course negotiations could still be ongoing. Lol.
     
    #47 m2k, Aug 26, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  23. NHawk19 insert witty comment

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    5,769
    Likes Received:
    320
    Disney was bringing more than just 50% financing & Fiege to the the table, so asking to be a true partner is pretty reasonable.

    Disney brings: 50% financing, Feige, the MCU history, the MCU characters, the newly acquired characters, Management for the adjacent Spider-verse, presence for the character in Spidey "off years" and presence for the character in the parks.
    Sony brings: 50% financing, use of the Spider-man catalogue, additional screen time for some MCU characters

    Disney was providing a lot of long term benefits. In fact they both could've benefited a lot. Sony just needed to realize that pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered.

    If the rumors were true, and they did outline something like 7 more Holland film appearances including a college trilogy that deal would've been a great benefit to both. Fiege could've probably even provided a decent jumping off point to get a new Venom film with proper Spider-man ties. Now Sony is stuck with a newly "outed" Spider-man who needs to repair his image in the 3rd film, while the MCU is free to move-on and ignore it. Sony's picking a weird place to stop the agreement, because I'm not even sure they could mention Mysterio or B.A.R.F. or other Stark tech in trying to repair Spider-man's public image for the movie. Also he'll have to make all his own suits from here out as I'm sure that the Tony Stark provided A.I. ones are out as well.

    Probably also wasn't in Sony's best interest to leak the discussions this early and try and blame Disney, because there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff I'm sure that will need to be cleaned up and agreed to by Disney before a 3rd film gets underway.

    In Disney's case I think saying less is more in this instance. Nobody is coming out of this lily-white.
     
  24. Zarex Registered

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,797
    Likes Received:
    3,131
    Like Thanos, this split was inevitable. Disney was ALWAYS going to ask for a bigger cut after delivering the two Home films at a bargain price. And Sony was ALWAYS going to pull Spidey away to be the feature player in the Sony Universe of Marvel Characters. The deal was unprecedented and, unfortunately, doomed from the start.
     
    MahvelBaby! likes this.
  25. MahvelBaby! Registered

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    6,930
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    Here's the reasons I side with Disney: Tom Rothman & Avi Arad

    They were never going to accept any deal hence why they let one sit for months.
     
    MovieSlave and Dark Raven like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"