Who got Engulfed more ?Ledger or Devito

[onDgrind]

This two guys probably gave the greatest performance for Batman villains on screen when it comes to the 6 Batman movies. Ledger and Devito totally got lost in their potrayal of The Joker and Penguin, there wasnt a point i could point out and say oh thats Ledger or Danny. Their performances are Oscar worthy, too bad Danny doesnt get as much recognition as he should from most fan boys. I have tried to figure out who gave the best performance, its realy hard , as they both totally got lost in their characters.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I agree. They are very similar performances; both had a lot of dark humour, both intelligent outcasts who had a point to make to society. The Penguin had an amazing amount of pathos; he was wicked and yet very vulnerable and childlike.

As to who was 'engulfed' more; if you watch the Returns DVD, it's mentioned that DeVito stayed in character whilst he was in costume, which must have been quite something on set.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

This is a hard one, I appreciate both of their performances equally personally!

 

[onDgrind]

I thought there would never be another performance of a Batman villain like Danny did, but Ledger blew me away, at first i thought it was all hype, until i saw the movie,he made the movie , i dont think TDK would have been as good if it wasnt for him. Would have given anything to see Danny stay in character during production, lol, bet he would have spooked people out

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

They're both amazing talents!

 

[onDgrind]

They're both amazing talents!

Definately , but i think what made Ledgers performance more sweet is most guys didnt give him a chance, i bet there wasnt much fan backlash when Devito was picked to play the Penguin, we all know what happened when Ledger was announced as The Joker

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

no love for pfieffer?

Danny was definitely Burton's penguin, no doubt about it.

the problem is they both come from different universes so it is a matter of taste whether you prefer nolan's slant on realism or burtons slant on fantasy.

i dont think devito could fit in nolan's films or heath could fit in burtons to be honest.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

no love for pfieffer?

Danny was definitely Burton's penguin, no doubt about it.

the problem is they both come from different universes so it is a matter of taste whether you prefer nolan's slant on realism or burtons slant on fantasy.

i dont think devito could fit in nolan's films or heath could fit in burtons to be honest.

Why not? If there such great actors that can fit into roles really well, what would hold them back from being able to branch out on the interpretation of the characters they play?

 

[onDgrind]

no love for pfieffer?

Danny was definitely Burton's penguin, no doubt about it.

the problem is they both come from different universes so it is a matter of taste whether you prefer nolan's slant on realism or burtons slant on fantasy.

i dont think devito could fit in nolan's films or heath could fit in burtons to be honest.

Heath would definately fit into Burtons Dark interpretation , dont see why he wouldnt. And if we took out the Penguins , Burtons Penguin should fit into Nolans universe too, i dont see whats wrong with having a guy born different at birth.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

Why not? If there such great actors that can fit into roles really well, what would hold them back from being able to branch out on the interpretation of the characters they play?

I mean the way they were in those films purely, no alterations

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

Heath would definately fit into Burtons Dark interpretation , dont see why he wouldnt. And if we took out the Penguins , Burtons Penguin should fit into Nolans universe too, i dont see whats wrong with having a guy born different at birth.

Heath's joker was not drammatic enough to make it in nolan's batman. He was very focussed on his goal and lacked a childlike fun side to him which would what would be required to parallel burton's dark driven serious batman.

I could never see nolan's interpretation saying 'you wouldn't hit a man with glasses would ya?' while donning a pair of lenless spectacles...Just wasn't theatrical enough.

 

[onDgrind]

Heath's joker was not drammatic enough to make it in nolan's batman. He was very focussed on his goal and lacked a childlike fun side to him which would what would be required to parallel burton's dark driven serious batman.

I could never see nolan's interpretation saying 'you wouldn't hit a man with glasses would ya?' while donning a pair of lenless spectacles...Just wasn't theatrical enough.

Penguin didnt realy have a childlike fun side to him, whereas Heaths joker in some scenes did, even though it was delivered in a sarcastic way. I think people tend to take each directors direction too serious, we dont know what Nolan would go for, so we cant realy say how a character would fit into their vision

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Penguin didnt realy have a childlike fun side to him,

Driving around in a huge rubber duck? Skipping with an umbrella as he thinks the first borns of Gotham are on the way to their doom?

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Driving around in a huge rubber duck? Skipping with an umbrella as he thinks the first borns of Gotham are on the way to their doom?

I was just about to say the same thing! lol

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

Penguin didnt realy have a childlike fun side to him, whereas Heaths joker in some scenes did, even though it was delivered in a sarcastic way. I think people tend to take each directors direction too serious, we dont know what Nolan would go for, so we cant realy say how a character would fit into their vision

the penguin is a different character to the joker, I'm not saying that all of burton's characters were drammatic so to speak but his joker was more drammatic than nolan's, therefore nolan's more intense joker would have not fitted in because batman is already intense in that universe and thus the joker is required to be the balance of theatrics.


as tragic as the penguin's character is, his rise and fall may be made comparable to two face's rise and fall but then again the people of gotham accepted and turned on the penguin far quicker while nolan made two-face's turn more internally brought upon.

even something as simple as nolan's joker would not have had the batman responsible for a murder but some proper deep rooted liability claim costing the lives of police officers during a raid and certainly wouldn't brag about it while kidnapping the batmobile.

 

[The Joker]

Driving around in a huge rubber duck? Skipping with an umbrella as he thinks the first borns of Gotham are on the way to their doom?

Not to mention driving the little minature Batmobile childrens ride when he had control of the real one.

To answer the topic of the thread, I think both Ledger and DeVito were so awesome as their characters that you really couldn't recognise either of them. They got so swallowed up in their terrific performances that they literally became the villains they were playing.

 

[onDgrind]

Driving around in a huge rubber duck? Skipping with an umbrella as he thinks the first borns of Gotham are on the way to their doom?

lol , driving around in a huge rubber duck was his only option since he couldnt drive a car in the sewers, and skipping with the umbrella was more sadistic , realising what was about to happen to the first borns, just like The Joker walking out of the Hospital, funniest walk have seen in a while lol , and i loved how he ran into the school bus when the last explosion went off, damn Devito and Ledger were pure genius in their roles

 

[Mandalore464]

lol , driving around in a huge rubber duck was his only option since he couldnt drive a car in the sewers

What kind of an argument is that?

 

[Eddie Brock]

I agree. They are very similar performances; both had a lot of dark humour, both intelligent outcasts who had a point to make to society. The Penguin had an amazing amount of pathos; he was wicked and yet very vulnerable and childlike.

As to who was 'engulfed' more; if you watch the Returns DVD, it's mentioned that DeVito stayed in character whilst he was in costume, which must have been quite something on set.

Either Gary Oldman or Christian Bale (or both) said the same thing about Heath. So, really, it's a stalemate. Either way, I would love to see Heath or Danny in-character on set.

 

[Keymaker]

So it's all about a lot of make-up and other thingies t:

 

[Eagle_23]

Both were great performances. But only w/ Heath did I never think I was watching anyone but the Joker, ya know. I never thought I was watching Heath play the Joker or anything like that which is quite remarkable given the circumstances and all.

 

[DACrowe]

Ledger, pretty easily. Both were great, but Ledger is completely gone and all there is is the Joker. He is not playing the part and showing he is having fun or hamming it up for attention or winking to the audience. He just is that character. While I couldn't recognize DeVito easily in that role you could tell he was having a lot of fun and did chew the scenery and play the role over the top and very hammy.

Actually as great as DeVito was I think Nicholson's Joker was more iconic and unforgettable and the best perforamnce of the Burton villains was probably Michelle Pffeifer as Catwoman. Sure you could tell physically she was Michelle Pffeifer as she wasn't under heavy make-up/prosthetics like Ledger and DeVito were, but like Ledger she completely immersed herself into the role.

That was not Pffeifer having a good time or there to chew scenery. She simply was Burton's vision of Catwoman come to life. She had a better arc than Penguin and her relationship with Bruce is what held that movie together. Her slow and painful slip into insanity and complete madness until the end where she has completely departed from reality that is mirrored in the expressionist's fashion by the formation and ultimate destruction of her costume is heart-breaking and mezmorizing. While physically you couldn't see the DeVito in the Penguin, Pffeifer is the one who completely was her character and didn't feel the need to go ham-fisted with the role like Nicholson and DeVito did (though I still love both performances and consider Nicholson the best villain of the Burton set).

Like Ledger she chose to simply be. That is the one more ample for comparison.

 

[DACrowe]

P.S. I wasn't ragging DeVito's performance. It was great and IMO is hands d own the best interpretation of Penguin in comic, film or animation to date. Simply, brilliant. But I think Ledger and Pffeifer were further immersed into the depths of their characters and didn't feel the need to try and steal scenes like DeVito did.

Also another point for Pffiefer. yeah Ledger and DeVito stayed in character while in costume/make-up, Pffeifer put a damn live bird in her mouth and orgasmed while it fluttered in her mouth. If that ain't method acting, I don't know what is.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

driving around in a huge rubber duck was his only option since he couldnt drive a car in the sewers

Yeah, there's no way the Penguin could have fashioned a vehicle to transport him around the sewers that didn't resemble a huge rubber duck. Sewer transport = giant rubber duck. It's that simple.

 

[DACrowe]

Yeah, there's no way the Penguin could have fashioned a vehicle to transport him around the sewers that didn't resemble a huge rubber duck. Sewer transport = giant rubber duck. It's that simple.

Who needs sewers? I bought mine for road traveling two years ago and haven't looked back. Sure it is a little slow and doesn't have good pick up, but the gas mileage is incredibly good, especially on the highway with 40 miles to the gallon. With these gas prices everyone will be seeing things my way. When the chips are down and the prices up everyone will be driving giant rubber ducks. You wait, I'll show ya'.