Who here thinks THE FLASH cannot support his own movie?

[p4poetic]

I'm saying that from a purely financial standpoint.....it's a much safer way to make money....

I was kidding, lol. I just wanted to post that smiley since I'm a girl and you made a reference to "girly movies".

 

[Evil Twin]

Why did it take a long time to come with something? Was he researching the property? Was he doing other things, as well? Did WB give him a definite deadline?

Just because it took him a while doesn't mean there wasn't a good reason for it. It's not like WW is that a high priority for WB.



They didn't get any farther with the WW movie then he did.



And there could have been many, many logical reasons why. Not all because Whedon couldn't get something to work with from the franchise.

There's no reason to fire him for it.

Whedon admitted that he struggled with the project for a long time. Why shouldn't we take him at his word?

Considering Whedon struggled for several years and turned in a project that WB wasn't happy with, moving on was probably the best thing for everyone. WB obviously didn't believe that Whedon was going to crack WW. For all we know WB was pissed that he cost a whole bunch of money and turned in a script that they deemed unusable and worse than what a couple of fans could churn out. What was WB supposed to do, wait 6 years for him to finally figure it out?

Whedon co-wrote the first Toy Story, he wrote and directed the critically acclaimed Serenity and he created and maintained 3 critically acclaimed sci-fi tv shows.

George Miller created and directed Mad Max and The Road Warrior, produced and cowrote Babe, had a screenplay Oscar nomination for Lorenzo's Oil, and won an Oscar for Happy Feet, and people were freaking out about Justice League. Steven Spielberg directed Schindler's List, Jaws, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and somehow he had a Hook in him. Joss Whedon doesn't have the track record of either of them, admitted that he was more a Marvel fan than a DC fan, and apparently couldn't figure out how to use what most have been reams of material that DC undoubtedly gave him for research.

And, more to the point, nothing in Whedon's description inspired any confidence in me that he got WW. At all. Personally, I just believe that he was a poor fit. Neil Gaiman is a fine comic book writer and has written screenplays, but I wouldn't hire him to write a Wolverine movie. Likewise, I wouldn't hire Frank Miller to write and direct a Sandman movie. Buffy and WW might both be action heroines, but they're nothing alike beyond that general description. Quentin Tarantino has written an action heroine before in Kill Bill, would you hire him to write a WW movie?

 

[Timstuff]

He left because no one at WB cared enough to listen to what he was doing...I look at any DC adaptation from a grown ups prespective...the chances of 1 Flash film are slim enough, much less a trilogy or on-going franchise......

It's not like Warner Bros. will sit down and say "A trilogy of Flash movies is too expensive. We're only going to make one." They should approach Flash as a medium-budget summer blockbuster (by medium budget, I mean in the vicinity of 80-100 million) with a self contained story that doesn't leave too many loose ends, but has the potential for sequels. If it's a hit (which it will be if it's well made, and has a good marketing campaign), then they can start developing two sequels. It's movie business 101.

The thing that is always a pain with Flash however, is that even though he's a second tier hero, his rogues gallery is on par with that of a third tier. Most of his villains are very lame, and finding one that would work well as his primary antagonist would be pretty hard. Zoom is one of the only Flash villains who can give him serious trouble and adds something to his character, though I'd be a bit leery of using an "evil version of hero" villain right from the first movie, because that sends the message that the hero has a shallow rogue's gallery (which Flash does, but they should at least TRY to make up for it).

However, the success of Iron Man shows that an "evil version of hero" villain can still be used to launch a franchise as long as the story packs a serious punch. As long as they give Zoom his own freakin' costume instead of giving him an inverted Flash costume, I think he could work OK as the main villain as long as there are plenty of other thugs for Flash to go through in the movie first. The problem after that though, is where do you go for the sequels? I haven't read it, but the Cicada story line sounds like it's quite interesting and could serve a movie well-- the idea of a cult justifying human sacrifice by claiming the people would have died if not for the Superhero who saved them is intriguing, and it could give Flash a solid emotional burden to deal with throughout the film (and it's nice and dark, which Warner Bros. likes, apparently). Once you get past Zoom and Cicada though, you're down to Gorilla Grodd, Captain Boomerang, Captain Cold, and Mirror Master... And frankly, I'd have a pretty hard time imagining a movie with any of them as the antagonist, so they'd either have to seriously overhaul one of them to be a real threat and contribute to the story, or they'd have to team up several of them.

 

[Savage]

Well the Rogues do work best as a group so I don't see why they can't work that way in a movie as well. A bunch of losers that can't seem to get The Flash on their own so they group together to take over Keystone City and nearly kill him in the process.

Or you can just use Weather Wizard who makes for a pretty good standalone villain. Grodd and Cicada work very well on their own as well and Murmur if they're going for a darker kind of movie.

And if Flash is a second tier character are you saying that DC only has 3 first tier characters or something? Because you don't get any more first rate than the original seven Justice Leaguers/Superfriends. If you haven't been reading The Flash then I gotta tell ya, Geoff Johns' run shows that Flash's villains are anything but lame.

 

[GreenLantern1]

I would want Zoom in his reversed Flash costume. A psychotic Zoom would be great. Mirror Master would also be great.

 

[batlovescatDC]

^ zoom, mirror master, trickster, and blacksmith are the villians i'd like to see in Flash movies. But I think maybe Zoom should be saved for the sequel..... it might be bad to have another super-speed character besides Flash in his first movie. I can definitely see a plot where Blacksmith hires Trickster and Mirror Master and then gains her own powers in the movie (like she does in the comics).

 

[Timstuff]

And if Flash is a second tier character are you saying that DC only has 3 first tier characters or something? Because you don't get any more first rate than the original seven Justice Leaguers/Superfriends. If you haven't been reading The Flash then I gotta tell ya, Geoff Johns' run shows that Flash's villains are anything but lame.

Tier 1 consists of Batman and Superman. Tier 2 consists of Flash, Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman. Tier 3 would be everyone else. I'm sure some would disagree with my personal "tier system," but it's the one I use.

BTW, with all this talk of Flash's rogues teaming up, I'd like to add that that was the plot of the JLU episode "Flash and Substance." Captain Boomerang, Captain Cold, Mirror Master, and Trickster team up to try and off Flash. It was a good episode, especially if you like Flash.

 

[The Major]

It's not like Warner Bros. will sit down and say "A trilogy of Flash movies is too expensive. We're only going to make one." They should approach Flash as a medium-budget summer blockbuster (by medium budget, I mean in the vicinity of 80-100 million) with a self contained story that doesn't leave too many loose ends, but has the potential for sequels. If it's a hit (which it will be if it's well made, and has a good marketing campaign), then they can start developing two sequels. It's movie business 101.

Agreed.

The thing that is always a pain with Flash however, is that even though he's a second tier hero, his rogues gallery is on par with that of a third tier.

So what? Flash could be a Z-lister and in the right hands a film maker with the proper talent and vision could make a good film out of him.

Most of his villains are very lame, and finding one that would work well as his primary antagonist would be pretty hard. Zoom is one of the only Flash villains who can give him serious trouble and adds something to his character, though I'd be a bit leery of using an "evil version of hero" villain right from the first movie, because that sends the message that the hero has a shallow rogue's gallery (which Flash does, but they should at least TRY to make up for it).

You need to read the Waid and Johns' runs on Flash.

They're full of good stories with good villains and characters.

However, the success of Iron Man shows that an "evil version of hero" villain can still be used to launch a franchise as long as the story packs a serious punch.

They don't need an evil version of the hero in the first movie to do that. They just need to execute the villain well.

As long as they give Zoom his own freakin' costume instead of giving him an inverted Flash costume, I think he could work OK as the main villain as long as there are plenty of other thugs for Flash to go through in the movie first.

Zoom is more of a sequel villain IMO.

He could work as a main villain. I'm talking about the Hunter Zolomon version.

The problem after that though, is where do you go for the sequels? I haven't read it, but the Cicada story line sounds like it's quite interesting and could serve a movie well-- the idea of a cult justifying human sacrifice by claiming the people would have died if not for the Superhero who saved them is intriguing, and it could give Flash a solid emotional burden to deal with throughout the film (and it's nice and dark, which Warner Bros. likes, apparently).

That's just one story.

Flash has had literally hundreds of good ones in the comics to adapt or be inspired by.

Once you get past Zoom and Cicada though, you're down to Gorilla Grodd, Captain Boomerang, Captain Cold, and Mirror Master... And frankly, I'd have a pretty hard time imagining a movie with any of them as the antagonist, so they'd either have to seriously overhaul one of them to be a real threat and contribute to the story, or they'd have to team up several of them.

What comics have you read with them?

I can imagine most of them doing that, excluding Boomerang. They'd work well as a team, too.

Flash has other good enemies. Savitar, Magenta, Doctor Polaris and Neron are among them.

 

[maveholic31]

They could go 'begins' on it and focus more on the hero himself rather than the villains, with a great script and more humane feel like i always thought DC comics to be over Marvel, The FLASH could be one hell of a franchise by itself.

 

[Katsuro]

Well the Rogues do work best as a group so I don't see why they can't work that way in a movie as well. A bunch of losers that can't seem to get The Flash on their own so they group together to take over Keystone City and nearly kill him in the process.

That's what I want to see. I'm tired of origin stories. Let's have a Flash movie that begins with Flash as a hero who's been saving the world for a few years already. They already have the Flash museum up, and he's got a bunch of villains he's already locked away. The villains decide to team up and take out Flash. It'd be something pretty unique.

 

[cerealkiller182]

That's what I want to see. I'm tired of origin stories. Let's have a Flash movie that begins with Flash as a hero who's been saving the world for a few years already. They already have the Flash museum up, and he's got a bunch of villains he's already locked away. The villains decide to team up and take out Flash. It'd be something pretty unique.

 

[Katsuro]

Also, i'm torn between having Flash (Barry Allen) die at the end of the first film, or waiting until a Justice Leage movie to have that happen. I love the idea of the hero dying at the end of his first film, which is something we almost never see. I mean, no one goes to a Batman or Spider-Man movie expecting the hero to die, it'd be a pretty awesome twist if that's how Flash ended.