The Flash who is savitar !?

[Dark Raven]

My theory is that he's going to be from somewhere (possibly somewhere we've speculated or dismissed already), and they won't have thought through it all or how it actually fits together in practice, so it won't make any sense or have any logic anyway but will have tons of inconsistencies.

 

[30Airrazor]

I had a feeling it was future Barry.

Wally & Jessie Quick are your dead giveaways:

Eddie died in the first season finale & Ronnie sacrificed himself in the first episode of the second season. Wally & Jessie didn't came until much later in the second season. So Eddie & Ronnie has no connection to neither of them at all.

That just leaves one person: Barry

When Killer Frost saw Savitar's true identity a couple of weeks ago, it's not because she didn't like person, but because it was someone Caitlin knew, cared about & most importantly trusted without hesitation.

That's why Killer Frost to accept Savitar's offer so easily.

 

[mqg96]

When Killer Frost saw Savitar's true identity a couple of weeks ago, it's not because she didn't like person, but because it was someone Caitlin knew, cared about & most importantly trusted without hesitation.

That's why Killer Frost to accept Savitar's offer so easily.

Also if you go watch that sizzle trailer, you'll realize they have a lot more in common. Future Barry hates being called Barry "THAT'S NOT MY NAME!" and considers himself as "Savitar" because of the monster he has become. Like Killer Frost hates being called "Caitlin" because of the monster she has become. You know in a lot of comic book shows or movies villains hate their original name and come up with a name for themselves that sounds more terrifying, like they want to rule the world and become Gods. That's why Future Killer Frost said "The cure to my illness, embracing who I really am!" Future Barry embraced his new identity as Savitar. Caitlin embraces her new identity as Killer Frost. Why, because they are broken, they lost everybody close to them or were traumatized. So it drove them to the dark side. They became their worst enemy which is the lesson of this Flash season.

 

[Wildcard]

All right, so I was wrong about the whole time remnant thing after all...

 

[guitarsingerguy]

All right, so I was wrong about the whole time remnant thing after all...

Yeah...I didn't think it was gonna be a time remnant either, but I was wrong.

 

[Wildcard]

I was thinking we were going to find out Future Barry was lying about not knowing Savitar's identity because he was him (and somehow hiding his scars). Needless to say, I was way off.

And I agree, that seems uncharacteristic of Iris, Joe and the rest of the gang to shun a time remnant because he's not the "real" Barry.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I wonder how he got the scars.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

So the Time Remnant is from Flash Point ?

He's from the fight with Savitar in the future, but he's traveled back into the past. That's why Cisco was talking about the perpetual closed loop.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Savitar left a single time remnant alive from their fight in the future. Apparently the group shunned the time remnant because he wasn't the "real" Barry. The time remnant went back in time, got the stone, and started the whole cult of Savitar angle. So Savitar (time remnant Barry) basically started his own legend.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

But why would Savitar even create a time remnant if he kills Barry ? What happens to present / past Barry after Iris dies ?

They fight
Savitar kills Barry

Why even create a time remnant ?

No, Barry created time remnant to fight Savitar, and he left one alive knowing that time remnant would grow to become Savitar. The time remnant was from original Barry, not Savitar.

 

[Dninx64]

I don't think Barry specifically knew that was gonna happen & Im still confused

So what time is this time remnant from Barry that becomes Savitar from ?

2024 Flash

 

[Wildcard]

Savitar's creation is still confusing to me. I know they explained it tonight and you guys just laid out the details even better...but I still just don't get it.

 

[Wildcard]

Watching the scene again

Savitar is a temporal duplicate time remnant

Barry created when Barry ran back in time & met himself

Barry made a remnant last year to defeat Zoom & save the multiverse

The duplicate died saving the multiverse

Barry went on with life & things would have remained the same until Barry created Flash Point

Future Barry created time remnants to stop Savitar

Savitar kills them all

Savitar is from future Barry

The group & Barry included shunned the temporal duplicate time remnant

There was two Barrys after the fight with Savitar & one was an aberration

Future Barry did not tell Barry this

Okay, that's the bit that was throwing me off. Thanks. t:

The key thing here is after the fight with Savitar

There were two Barrys

They shunned the fake one so the fake one gets the idea to go back in time because he was alone & scared

It's all making sense now. haha thanks again.

 

[Wildcard]

Future Barry creates a bunch of time remnants & Savitar kills all but one before he was trapped & that is the one that was shunned after the fight & left alone

Basically, Savitar is another problem Barry created by creating Flash Point.

 

[herolee10]

The key thing here is after the fight with Savitar

There were two Barrys

They shunned the fake one so the fake one gets the idea to go back in time because he was alone & scared

So are we looking at a Kyle Reese/John Conner paradox here where a time remnant of Barry's became Savitar after having helped the original Barry in trapping the original version of Savitar (who was also Barry)?

 

[TheRedWraith]

No, sometime in the future, Future Flash made a bunch of Time Remnants in hopes to beat savitar with them: Savitar kills all but one of them: Savitar gets trapped in Speedforce Prison: The Remaining remnant is shunned by all (seems kind of out of character but maybe the trauma of savitar changed everyone) and while alone becomes embittered and decides that he'll destroy the life he was denied and become a god so he uses the stone in the past to become savitar and starts the cult: all of the events of this season happen (although this time he finds out who Savitar is so this will break the cycle): present barry loses Iris and becomes future barry who creates time remnants to fight Savitar and all but one of them dies: repeat loop ad infinitum.

 

[TheRedWraith]

That is irrelevant, he point blank says that he was created by the future flash, that bit was just for a frame of reference to time remnants (for the audience) and to make a point that Barry and the team have always treated the duplicates like things to be used and thrown away like trash whenever they feel like it. In fact here is the scene.

[YT]hv3Mci3yK2Q[/YT]

 

[TheRedWraith]

:45 and onward is all that is relevant. the rest is just for reference to quickly reexplain them to the audience and to make a point of how they are treated. Then quite clearly he says he was created in the future by the future barry to fight Savitar and shunned after he survived.

 

[herolee10]

:45 and onward is all that is relevant. the rest is just for reference to quickly reexplain them to the audience and to make a point of how they are treated. Then quite clearly he says he was created in the future by the future barry to fight Savitar and shunned after he survived.

If that's the case, then who was Savitar when THIS time remnant fought against?

 

[TheRedWraith]

The same Time Remnant further in his timeline. It's all pretty simple Savitar's life is a predestination paradox, his creation to stop a threat creates the threat as he is the threat and always was the threat, there is no beginning and there is no end, and while the execution was lackluster this is hopeful for me as at least they are finally using established time travel mechanics and not just doing whatever they want and expecting us to just buy it.

 

[Lighthouse]

If that's the case, then who was Savitar when THIS time remnant fought against?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_loop

Aka a boot strap paradox if you watch Doctor Who. I kind of hate these things in time travel shows. It's like the watch in the last season of Lost that has no origin.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Savitar said Barry created this aberration (Savitar) when Barry ran back in time & met himself

But he was not specific of when he met himself

I can only think of when he was originally gonna save his mom in the season 1 finale but Barry told Barry not to do it

Im guessing this was when he was talking about ?

No, he was just giving a basic explanation of what a time remnant was. The specific time remnant was created during the fight with Savitar. Savitar even tells Barry that he will use time remnants in the battle, but it won't work. Savitar leaves the time remnant on purpose because he knows that's who will grow into Savitar. It does seem extremely out of character for Barry and the rest of the team to shun "time remnant Barry." That's the thing with time travel. It's convoluted.

 

[Legendver2]

I hate casual loop plots. It seems such a cop out way to explain things. Also, since Time Remnant Barry is the one taht helps future Barry put Savitar in the speedforce prison, does the original Savitar still exist? TR Barry goes back in time to become Savitar while the Savitar he stops is in SF prison. Now there's 2 Savitars it seems.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

That is irrelevant, he point blank says that he was created by the future flash, that bit was just for a frame of reference to time remnants (for the audience) and to make a point that Barry and the team have always treated the duplicates like things to be used and thrown away like trash whenever they feel like it. In fact here is the scene.

[YT]hv3Mci3yK2Q[/YT]

Exactly. He SPECIFICALLY says that he was a single time remnant that was allowed to live during the future fight with Savitar.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

No, sometime in the future, Future Flash made a bunch of Time Remnants in hopes to beat savitar with them: Savitar kills all but one of them: Savitar gets trapped in Speedforce Prison: The Remaining remnant is shunned by all (seems kind of out of character but maybe the trauma of savitar changed everyone) and while alone becomes embittered and decides that he'll destroy the life he was denied and become a god so he uses the stone in the past to become savitar and starts the cult: all of the events of this season happen (although this time he finds out who Savitar is so this will break the cycle): present barry loses Iris and becomes future barry who creates time remnants to fight Savitar and all but one of them dies: repeat loop ad infinitum.

There you go. That's the best, most straight forward explanation I've seen, and he nails it.