Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Who is the clairvoyant.

[Mike Murdock]

Somebody that's more familiar with his work can tell you whether or not he played the voice of the voice machine for Nash. I don't know.

But I do think they could easily think hiring Brad Dourif as a decoy would be a good idea. The mere fact that we're debating this helps show that we weren't going to get fooled ahead of time into thinking he'd be a decoy.

 

[Marc Spector]

What if Nash was only attached to the machines because he was in the final stages of uploading his consciousness into cyberspace?.. Sort of like Zola, but without direct access to the algorithm, or Zola's methods of becoming a "ghost in the machine". "We all create our own demons". Maybe Nash had to allow parts of himself to die, before the upload occurred.

If the machine was allowing Nash to speak, and if the voice was in fact Dourif's, then I could see that voice returning in a different body. The vocal patterns might be stored in cyberspace or relayed somewhere or something. That would mean Dourif's voice could return later in a rebuilt body.

In my theory, Nash actually wanted to die, and anticipated that Ward would kill him...Nash wasn't afraid of death, didn't "fear the Reaper" because he predicted that he could be brought back. This whole time him and Garrett have been like magician and assistant, who actually work together more than we realize co-leading this operation taking turns as the prestige. "Turn" can refer to a stage magic trick. I think it was Nash doing all the typing to Peterson about Garrett, and both use each others access to data (Garrett's access to the shield files) and technology. One disappears so the other has to take his place, tries to misdirect to Hand while the switch occurs. Stage magic tricks. Maybe he needed to die to create the copy of his mind & force the upload. If he secretly became a "ghost in the machine" then it's possible that he could return by way of the GH or a robot/cyborg body, or whatever process brought Coulson back.

That voice said a force we can't comprehend will return for Skye. It sounds like it has a plan...Garrett said it's a war for Shield's soul..."Mike Peterson is dead". Jane calls a soul a "quantum field" in TDW, because magic and science are one and the same.. Maybe more like two sides of the same coin...

 

[Human Torch]

Garret is/was the clairvoyant.They made that point in no uncertain terms.He may still be answering to higher-ups in Hydra,but he was the clairvoyant all along.

 

[Marc Spector]

In one episode, Garrett said that he's not "gifted", but Raina is... Raina said there's a question she would have asked the Clairvoyant, if he had turned out to be "gifted"... She was more disappointed than Quinn was, because she was the one who had been tasked with taking gifts out of people like Scorch.

Garrett says that they plan to continue to "change the world" with whatever it is they're doing, but never really specified what their goals are. Raina might know the true goals of project centipede...Garrett gave Raina the equipment to continue working and revealed how they're trying to bring soldiers back; however, we still don't know why they want this ability... Wouldn't it be nice if Nash could somehow fix up his body?...And what are they gonna do with their cyborg/undead army...Project Deathlok is taken straight from the comics, I believe Cybertek is a subsidiary of Roxxon oil & the head of Roxxon oil was replaced by Hydra after Trevor actually did shoot him in the head... Only some of the authorities knew that part of Mandarin's act was real. Garrett's con artist act was enough to convince Raina to continue helping them but it wasn't enough to sell me... I simply won't be sold until Raina's story ends... I don't believe for one second that Garrett knows everything about the true goals of Project Centipede, there's a lot of stuff he said where there could be two ways about it and he remains vague on some things..

Lots of little things that make me uncertain. Even the way Garrett speaks at times, admits to being a liar, a con-artist, not a con-man but a con artist. Capable of creating convincing and elaborate cover stories; a true artist, like "Trevor" with his Mandarin character... "Clairvoyant" is definitely part of Garrett --born out of his mind. But it was just a role. A cover story. Nash was most likely helping Garrett in some way. That's why I compare it to a magic act, which actually requires that the assistants take part in the tricks, while the magician (Garrett or Trevor) takes attention away.

Even if Nash is somehow involved, Garrett is the Clairvoyant. Because, as we learn in 'All Hail the King': "once you've inhabited a role for [long enough], it often becomes you and you become it". When Garrett started hitting Ward & asked Ward "who are you?", he said "Grant Ward Agent of Shield" & he was ready to pass that question on the test...His identity had been compromised before, maybe acting runs in his family. I think there are still many lies to get to the bottom of, and Ward changes his name to Eric Williams, aka The Reaper.

 

[cherokeesam]

Garret is/was the clairvoyant.They made that point in no uncertain terms.He may still be answering to higher-ups in Hydra,but he was the clairvoyant all along.

Yeah....and they made sure we knew Ward was a "good guy" all along. And that Garrett was a "good guy" all along. And that Hand was "The Clairvoyant" all along. And that Thomas Nash was "The Clairvoyant" all along. etc. etc. etc.

The show is full of misdirection. Garrett as "The Clairvoyant" is just another instance in a long line of it. They're just telegraphing it by having Garrett remind everyone in every episode now just how much of an untrustworthy liar and con artist he is.

 

[AquamanOS]

The problem they've been pretty clear there was no actual Clairvoyance involved. Garrett was feeding the intel to Centepede and that's why they knew all that stuff. And the reason for not being able to see Tahiti was because the file wasn't available. Where as if it was really Nash being psychic he'd know.

The show's been adamant that natural psychic powers aren't real (because that counts as mutation and they legally can't have that).

We know Centipede doesn't really want Skye, because they were totally uninterested in her until they found out about the data drive, which means Nash's threat to keep going after her and cutting her open was just a way for Ward to kill him and still keep his cover (irrelevant once Hydra came out into the open but they weren't expecting that)

That leaves Nash a paralyzed guy in a chair. What plotting could he really being doing? Heck what threat could he possibily be?

 

[Octavias]

The problem they've been pretty clear there was no actual Clairvoyance involved. Garrett was feeding the intel to Centepede and that's why they knew all that stuff. And the reason for not being able to see Tahiti was because the file wasn't available. Where as if it was really Nash being psychic he'd know.

The show's been adamant that natural psychic powers aren't real (because that counts as mutation and they legally can't have that).

We know Centipede doesn't really want Skye, because they were totally uninterested in her until they found out about the data drive, which means Nash's threat to keep going after her and cutting her open was just a way for Ward to kill him and still keep his cover (irrelevant once Hydra came out into the open but they weren't expecting that)

That leaves Nash a paralyzed guy in a chair. What plotting could he really being doing? Heck what threat could he possibily be?

That's not true... There is nothing that bars them legally from having telepathic powers in the show... currently shields status is that they never found a real one to date... they investigated many of them, as has been said previously... its like alien contact or phase two weaponry... shield lies about virtually everything.. the whole show is misdirection... Id be highly surprised one of the many Marvel non mutant characters with clairvoyant powers doesn't eventually make the show... lets not forget in the MCU Mandarin went from a joke to real already... what seems to be isn't always what is

 

[Marc Spector]

There's no actual Clairvoyance so far. That was all an act. Plenty of ways to bring it in later.

Garrett might have shared his access to the files with Nash.
Nash's voice predicted things too.
It said that Skye has a "gift", and "she'll die giving it to them".

Skye was born with some sort of gift, but she may be from elsewhere.. As far as we know humans aren't born gifted.
People can gain genetic gifts, and so far it seems they have to be triggered (like Scorch's was by the nuclear plant meltdown). Hydra only enhanced Blackout's powers, an earlier incident gave him his gift.

Raina has been collecting gifts, she enhanced Scorch's powers & took his gift for the project.

In my theory, Nash would have uploaded himself into the machines, and then into Cybertek's servers. That's where they'll find him again.

He'd be a "ghost in the machine" now, and wouldn't need a body. He accomplished this in a different way than Zola, and needed Ward to kill him to force the upload of his mind all the way into the machines...

Nash would have sent the message about Garrett getting impatient. He would be the one typing to Deathlok's eye. Garrett's still in charge imo. Both are equally responsible for "changing the world" as Garrett tells Raina to keep her onboard. Both know the details of the project, and Raina has questions because she received messages from Nash initially, who is the tech-wiz and knows more about the toy soldiers they wanna roll out. Nash was the end of the line for people controlling the eye implants, and that's why he needed that many screens. They're both working together to "change the world", but Garrett's still in charge... I think Nash is sort of in their eyes and Cybertek's servers... Maybe the voice can infect cyborgs and return, but that body is done for.

 

[Octavias]

Im not sold on Garrett yet, simply because lets look at the investigation into the clairvoyant:

Team believes he is one of the "psychic" people they investigated prior... Before the investigation even really gets underway, Deathlok takes out one guy who was suspicious of Hydra, then another suspect unable to speak for himself quickly admits to being the clairvoyant, information that would lead that to be believed as truth is planted, then he is killed... thus ending the trail...

Coulson realizes its a ruse, the trail heats up again... he suspects a high level Shield Operative... Garrett pushes this, not only that gives Ward the heads up on playing that card, and tries to get her killed...
Coulson catches onto it...

Then Garrett is the suspect, he admits to it, all the info points to him, just as it did the other two, and he fakes his own death in the end...

Maybe it is Garrett all along, but then again the clairvoyant could just be trying desperately to get off Coulson's Radar... and using Garrett as the pawn. I still think there is a bigger baddie pulling the strings on Garrett.. he is, after all, no more than a merc... certainly not a true believer in hydra

 

[Marc Spector]

I think this goes beyond Hydra and Shield, and Garrett knows what happens when a "limb" of the Hydra is cutoff, as opposed to a head.

Coulson and Garrett argued about whether it was heads or limbs that regrow when you cut them off... Maybe AIM, Cybertek, Roxxon oil, and The Zodiac are all "branches" or "limbs" of the Hydra...And Garrett knows more about them, doesn't really deal with the beliefs of higher ups.

Garrett will sway whichever way the wind blows. He turns with the seasons. He might not be a true believer in the Zodiac's beliefs either. But the Zodiac group might be the ones responsible for helping him ward off Ward's demons from his past... There could be forces the team has already come across that they can't understand yet, like where the Ghost character went to when he died... Magic is just science we have yet to understand, and I can easily see Garrett falling victim to something he doesn't understand...Nash's voice said a force they can't comprehend will return for Skye's gift. When the season is right, Ward might be turned into the Grim Reaper and given a cybernetic scythe to harvest her gift.

 

[Venom'sDad]

In my theory, Nash would have uploaded himself into the machines, and then into Cybertek's servers. That's where they'll find him again.

He'd be a "ghost in the machine" now, and wouldn't need a body. He accomplished this in a different way than Zola, and needed Ward to kill him to force the upload of his mind all the way into the machines...

There is no evidence of that nor a hint of that. At this point, we don't know what Garrett angle is for gaining all of SHIELD's secret & tech. He certainly does not appear to have a "Master Plan" that one would assoiae as being a secret organization by his founding. He essentially said it himself, he's a merc for Hydra, not a actually member of Hydra. Appear to be stealing to gain wealth from the highest bidder(Hydra).

Nash do have an interesting role. Either he is something or somebody, or was just a cameo...don't hold your breathe.

 

[Marc Spector]

[/B]
There is no evidence of that nor a hint of that. At this point, we don't know what Garrett angle is for gaining all of SHIELD's secret & tech. He certainly does not appear to have a "Master Plan" that one would assoiae as being a secret organization by his founding. He essentially said it himself, he's a merc for Hydra, not a actually member of Hydra. Appear to be stealing to gain wealth from the highest bidder(Hydra).

Nash do have an interesting role. Either he is something or somebody, or was just a cameo...don't hold your breathe.

Yeah that part is just speculation. We don't know how Zola uploaded his mind yet. There were quotes about him wanting to live forever, he might have been dying at the time.

In theory, if Nash wanted to upload his mind he might still be a little reluctant to give up his body, even though cyberspace would offer him more freedom.

Nash was already hooked up to the machines. We don't really know if it was talking through his voice and the machine, or something talking for him etc. I think he was part of Garrett's operation, but Garrett and him were both taking orders from higher ups. I don't really think the voice speaking to them was a prop, but Nash's body might have been. Imo it's hydra's plan, not either of theirs.

 

[fixxxer]

@Marc Spector: Is that you, LokiD? Haha, if so, welcome back, man. We've all missed your, um, "out there" brand of speculation.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Garrett might have shared his access to the files with Nash.
Nash's voice predicted things too.
It said that Skye has a "gift", and "she'll die giving it to them".

The former isn't a prediction (although it does show knowledge that Ward wouldn't have had unless the "gift" was just the ability to hack things). The latter is a prediction, but there's no indication it is a true prediction. Given that its role was to justify Ward shooting Nash "in defense of Skye" there's no reason to think it was supposed to be real at all. Certainly, no one has since taken it seriously and they've all but forgotten it.

 

[cherokeesam]

The former isn't a prediction (although it does show knowledge that Ward wouldn't have had unless the "gift" was just the ability to hack things). The latter is a prediction, but there's no indication it is a true prediction. Given that its role was to justify Ward shooting Nash "in defense of Skye" there's no reason to think it was supposed to be real at all. Certainly, no one has since taken it seriously and they've all but forgotten it.

Just like we all "forgot" about Mike Peterson until 10 episodes in. That's the way plot twists and surprises work. In this particular case, I think they've given us more than just a circumstantial clue in the fact that the Nash episode was titled "The End of the Beginning" while the season-ender is titled "The Beginning of the End." That's a very strong indicator that there's going to be a callback to that particular episode.

 

[AquamanOS]

I suppose until the show blantantly proves you wrong you won't back down from this arguement.


So lets just wait for the last two episodes to air and Nash to not show up.

 

[Human Torch]

Yeah....and they made sure we knew Ward was a "good guy" all along. And that Garrett was a "good guy" all along. And that Hand was "The Clairvoyant" all along. And that Thomas Nash was "The Clairvoyant" all along. etc. etc. etc.

The show is full of misdirection. Garrett as "The Clairvoyant" is just another instance in a long line of it. They're just telegraphing it by having Garrett remind everyone in every episode now just how much of an untrustworthy liar and con artist he is.

There would've been no need for Garrett to admit to Raina and Quinn that he was the (decidedly un-gifted) Clairvoyant.Especially when they both seemed to lose confidence/respect for him when they found out the truth.

I'm sure Garrett still answers to "bigger fish" in Hydra,but the whole Clairvoyant thing was a ruse by Garrett that got played out now that Hydra is in charge.They're not going back to it.There's no need,now.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Just like we all "forgot" about Mike Peterson until 10 episodes in.

They didn't forget about Mike Peterson, he just wasn't relevant.

 

[hoy-small-fry]

There would've been no need for Garrett to admit to Raina and Quinn that he was the (decidedly un-gifted) Clairvoyant.Especially when they both seemed to lose confidence/respect for him when they found out the truth.

I'm sure Garrett still answers to "bigger fish" in Hydra,but the whole Clairvoyant thing was a ruse by Garrett that got played out now that Hydra is in charge.They're not going back to it.There's no need,now.

Has the "Clairvoyant" even been mentioned for a few weeks? It's a dead plot point as far as I'm concerned - it was Hydra all along

 

[cherokeesam]

They didn't forget about Mike Peterson, he just wasn't relevant.

You're missing the point. The point is that this show has a growing history of doing callbacks to earlier episodes that didn't seem like they were foreshadowing anything way back when. Another case in point: Clark Gregg just announced in a podcast day before yesterday that Amy Acker will reappear in a future episode, but he can't say when. So it's a fairly reasonable assumption that "The End of the Beginning/The Beginning of the End" gives us a clear indication of a specific callback, don't you think?

 

[Marc Spector]

The show runners made a big deal about how "it's all connected". I wouldn't be surprised if there are callbacks to weird things that we won't see coming.

Raina collected Scorch's fire resistant platelets.
Garrett suffered from burns in the past, part of him is now cybernetic.

Imo Garrett's "burns" & the bad place-ish dimension of fire that the Ghost character moved into are somehow connected.. Or could be related to the fire that almost killed Ward's brother or something, in some way, if there is a way to redeem Ward's soul eventually..

Clark Gregg made a big deal about Garrett's cybernetic parts, and hinted that there are more connections to CA2 in these last two episodes.

 

[AquamanOS]

Has the "Clairvoyant" even been mentioned for a few weeks? It's a dead plot point as far as I'm concerned - it was Hydra all along

After Garrett came clean to Raina and Quinn they pretty much stopped refering to the Clairvoyant. Whenever they talk about Clairvoyant stuff now they say Garrett or Hydra instead.

 

[Mike Murdock]

You're missing the point.

Considering I made the initial point you responded to, perhaps you're missing the point?

It's important to distinguish between "resolved" things and things that go on the backburner until relevant again.

 

[Heretic]

They clearly and blatantly resolved this. It is only still a mystery in the minds of people who want there to be more to it. I wonder how many years it will be on the "backburner" before people accept that Garrett was in charge of this operation.

 

[Octavias]

There would've been no need for Garrett to admit to Raina and Quinn that he was the (decidedly un-gifted) Clairvoyant.Especially when they both seemed to lose confidence/respect for him when they found out the truth.
I'm sure Garrett still answers to "bigger fish" in Hydra,but the whole Clairvoyant thing was a ruse by Garrett that got played out now that Hydra is in charge.They're not going back to it.There's no need,now.

Unless , of course, he was hijacking this group in order to get the cure to save himself... he is a self serving person, after all, and repeatedly is saying to not trust him or believe what he is saying... to everyone...