Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Who is the clairvoyant.

They clearly and blatantly resolved this. It is only still a mystery in the minds of people who want there to be more to it. I wonder how many years it will be on the "backburner" before people accept that Garrett was in charge of this operation.

He just doesnt feel like the Clairvoyant......in my opinion
Go back to the other episode...the chick with the controlled eye...that guy sending her the missions seemed to have a different way of communicating.....
Garrett is more of an opportunist than anything...he's not a leader of men...he's a manipulator if anything
Zola...and Zemo is high on my list
 
Yeah, I was skeptical at first, but at this point, I don't see how there can be any doubt that Garrett has been running the whole show all along.
 
They clearly and blatantly resolved this. It is only still a mystery in the minds of people who want there to be more to it. I wonder how many years it will be on the "backburner" before people accept that Garrett was in charge of this operation.


No, they haven't "clearly and blatantly" resolved anything. They've simply told us to take one character's word for it. A character who continues to reinforce with every episode just how much of an untrustworthy liar and con artist he is (Garrett's favorite direct quote: "Don't trust me"). In a show where we've learned time and again that the main characters are usually misinformed and in the dark about what's *really* going on behind the scenes.

So yeah, no. Nothing's resolved until the season finale. If Garrett is still "The Clairvoyant" at the end of Ep. 22, then fine, you "win." If he isn't, that door is far from closed.
 
No, they haven't "clearly and blatantly" resolved anything. They've simply told us to take one character's word for it. A character who continues to reinforce with every episode just how much of an untrustworthy liar and con artist he is (Garrett's favorite direct quote: "Don't trust me"). In a show where we've learned time and again that the main characters are usually misinformed and in the dark about what's *really* going on behind the scenes.

So yeah, no. Nothing's resolved until the season finale. If Garrett is still "The Clairvoyant" at the end of Ep. 22, then fine, you "win." If he isn't, that door is far from closed.

I agree
 
There is no such thing as "I win." I have nothing to do with this show and am not trying to fool anyone. I just think that that pulling yet another surprise "we got ya!" in the last episode. They teased in this episode that Raina might turn on Garrett (and then she gave him what for some reason is the only sample they can have of what it appears has been her true mission this entire time...not sure why she did that). It also gave us more into the idea that Ward really isn't such a bad guy, and maybe he'll betray Garrett. I'm just hoping that the show doesn't get too cute with all of the twists.
 
I think Ragtag cleared up why Garrett ran Centipede and his ultimate end game. In my mind the case is closed now, it was all an elaborate ruse to move the pieces around
 
I think Ragtag cleared up why Garrett ran Centipede and his ultimate end game. In my mind the case is closed now, it was all an elaborate ruse to move the pieces around

I agree with you. I don't want Garrett to be the Clairvoyant, because it never felt right. But the writers have made it final with this episode.
 
I'll grant you that the statement from the one agent that was forced to obey The Clairvoyant is a bit of an issue...I think she was saying that he was British or something. I'd guess that the reason why she hasn't shown back up is because they don't really want people revisiting her episode. At this point, yet another swerve on the mystery is just being too cute. They have fully developed Garrett's reasoning for being involved in this project.
 
I'll grant you that the statement from the one agent that was forced to obey The Clairvoyant is a bit of an issue...I think she was saying that he was British or something.

Which he was... and when he was confronted by Coulson, he was killed by Garrett who was sending him instructions to send to her.
 
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I'll grant you that the statement from the one agent that was forced to obey The Clairvoyant is a bit of an issue...I think she was saying that he was British or something. I'd guess that the reason why she hasn't shown back up is because they don't really want people revisiting her episode. At this point, yet another swerve on the mystery is just being too cute. They have fully developed Garrett's reasoning for being involved in this project.
Huh? Are you talking about Akela Amador in the "Eye Spy" episode? She was being controlled (i.e. being fed instructions) by a chubby British guy. When Coulson found this guy, who he presumed was the Clairvoyant at the time, it was revealed that the British guy too was being controlled by someone up the ladder. He too had an exploding eye device, which was activated immediately after Coulson found him, promptly killing him.
 
Huh? Are you talking about Akela Amador in the "Eye Spy" episode? She was being controlled (i.e. being fed instructions) by a chubby British guy. When Coulson found this guy, who he presumed was the Clairvoyant at the time, it was revealed that the British guy too was being controlled by someone up the ladder. He too had an exploding eye device, which was activated immediately after Coulson found him, promptly killing him.
Yeah. I'm amazed whenever people mention this Englishman, as if its some kind of outstanding mystery about the Clairvoyant. They already showed that guy, and showed his death, proving he was just a go-between.

Also, as a minor point of clarification to the struck-through bit above, Coulson and team never believed the Englishman was the Clairvoyant. He died in episode 4 (Eye Spy) and the Clairvoyant isn't even mentioned until the stinger of episode 5 (tGitFD) -- and then only between Po and Raina.

And -- because I'm slow -- I only just now realized why Garrett was ever using the mysterious moniker of "Clairvoyant" in the first place. Given Raina's intense desire to learn about gifted people (like Scorch, Skye, and probably herself) it was a ruse specifically calculated to attract her attention and cooperation. In fact, I think Garrett even says that tittle is only what Po called him, and apparently, Po's only use was to get him in direct contact with Raina. (In fact, using that name may even have been Po's idea).
 
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LOL...you guys are so right!

The person who types the commands changes...so "The Clairvoyant" would only be the person in charge of the operation, which was Garrett.
 
And -- because I'm slow -- I only just now realized why Garrett was ever using the mysterious moniker of "Clairvoyant" in the first place. Given Raina's intense desire to learn about gifted people (like Scorch, Skye, and probably herself) it was a ruse specifically calculated to attract her attention and cooperation. In fact, I think Garrett even says that tittle is only what Po called him, and apparently, Po's only use was to get him in direct contact with Raina. (In fact, using that name may even have been Po's idea).

While you are mostly right, I think it's worth being careful here. Garrett didn't say that only Po calls him that, the computer near Nash said that. Obviously, not everything in that scene can be taken at face value.
 
While you are mostly right, I think it's worth being careful here. Garrett didn't say that only Po calls him that, the computer near Nash said that. Obviously, not everything in that scene can be taken at face value.
Fair enough. That scene is still kinda weird. But the point is that the name seems to have started out as nothing more than a pretense for Raina's sake (though once it got out, Garrett was happy to play it for all it was worth), but now that there's no need to deceive Raina, Garrett is happy to abandon the name. That's clear from the beginning of episode 18, when Ward brings Raina to Cuba, to meet Garrett.
Raina: "This is where we're meeting the Clairvoyant?"
Garrett: "There's no need to call me that anymore."
 
Fair enough. That scene is still kinda weird. But the point is that the name seems to have started out as nothing more than a pretense for Raina's sake (though once it got out, Garrett was happy to play it for all it was worth), but now that there's no need to deceive Raina, Garrett is happy to abandon the name. That's clear from the beginning of episode 18, when Ward brings Raina to Cuba, to meet Garrett.
Raina: "This is where we're meeting the Clairvoyant?"
Garrett: "There's no need to call me that anymore."


Thats how I take it.
 
While you are mostly right, I think it's worth being careful here. Garrett didn't say that only Po calls him that, the computer near Nash said that. Obviously, not everything in that scene can be taken at face value.


Including the part where Nash/The Faux Clairvoyant/Whomever says, "I don't like to be touched."

That's a callback to an earlier episode where Po mentions that The Clairvoyant doesn't like to be touched.

Who did Po tell that to? Raina.

So.....why, exactly, would (Allegedly) Garrett-Clairvoyant bring up that line to Coulson and Company, to whom it has absolutely no meaning or context?

Everything you guys attribute to the voice of Garrett in that episode makes no sense at all in context. Everything *about* that episode makes no sense at all in context, if you take "Garrett is The Clairvoyant" at face value.

If Nash is a patsy, and Garrett The Clairvoyant, as you guys believe, then you have to operate under the assumption that
(a) Garrett and HYDRA would kidnap a useless, forgotten quadriplegic from an obscure Georgia nursing home;
(b) They'd drive him 6 hours to an abandoned racetrack in Pensacola, Florida;
(c) They'd dig down not only beneath the *racetrack,* but about four levels below the sewers to set up an elaborate maze and a fake villain's lair to trap Coulson;
(d) Garrett seriously thought that Coulson would fall for the bait in Macon, GA, and pick *this* red herring (one of nine) to go exploring;
(e) they'd risk Deathlok getting killed by Coulson's team;
(f) they'd risk Coulson getting killed by Deathlok;
(g) they'd risk Garrett and/or Ward getting killed by Deathlok;
(h) they could hack into Thomas Nash's speech assist program;
(i) they could pull off a believable "conversation" between Fake Clairvoyant (Nash) and Coulson through this hack;
(j) that Garrett and/or a HYDRA flunkie in another room would embellish this conversation with phrases that would have no meaning to Coulson ("I don't like to be touched;" "there's a force you can't possibly comprehend coming back for you and Skye, and Skye is going to die", etc.)
(k) that an innocent man like Nash would just sit there and do NOTHING to try to alert Coulson that somebody was putting words in his mouth;
(l) that Ward would botch this oh-so-elaborate plan completely by shooting Nash when he started talkin' **** about his girlfriend.

My theory? Operates on four simple precepts:
a) Thomas Nash was The Clairvoyant. He was a known psychic, who was part of a top secret SHIELD program called Department H (which in the comics, plays a major role in the history of the X-Men), who suffered a debilitating stroke that left him paralyzed.
b) Nash used his contacts (probably including Edison Po) to build him a lair far from civilization, but he would stay in contact with the rest of the world via his computers. He would use the knowledge he gained from endless hours spent data-mining to create the mysterious online persona known as The Clairvoyant.
c) Coulson used genuine detective work to track The Clairvoyant to his lair. Nash confessed, and began telling Coulson his plans (as all supervillains are required by law to do). Ward got scared and angry when Nash started talking **** about his girlfriend, and shot him.
d) Garrett decided later on to assume the identity of the dead Clairvoyant to hook Raina and Quinn and use their resources to further his own greedy mercenary quest for More Stuff. Because the only people who were in any kind of position to rat him out and expose the truth were already dead (i.e., Po and Nash).

Feel free to continue to drink the Kool-Aid and believe in the convoluted and twisted plot-orgy that is required to make "Garrett was The Clairvoyant all along" work. Me, I'll stick to the simpler explanation, because that's almost always the one that works.
 
Including the part where Nash/The Faux Clairvoyant/Whomever says, "I don't like to be touched."

That's a callback to an earlier episode where Po mentions that The Clairvoyant doesn't like to be touched.

Who did Po tell that to? Raina.

So.....why, exactly, would (Allegedly) Garrett-Clairvoyant bring up that line to Coulson and Company, to whom it has absolutely no meaning or context?

(continues ...)



I would like for you to be proven right in the end. But until then, pass the Kool-Aid. :woot:

Garrett the Hydra villain is great and the show's been shaking us pretty hard and saying otherwise very firmly the he was always the Clairvoyant. I've given up hope for a MODOK, cyber/robot Zola, etc intro, but your plot reasoning is still very solid for the remote possibility of that alternate outcome to still happen. I've just accepted that the whole Nash conversation with SHIELD and its throwback lines, were just meant to confuse the fan base until the real reveal of Garrett sucker punched us in the gut.
 
I'll admit I don't fully understand the Nash scene (and I'm very curious about the actual relevance, if any, of the "not being touched" line). Its possible there's more going with Nash, but it still seems far simpler, and more fulfilling dramatically, to assume he was just a decoy. This late in the game (with one episode left) it just seems like too much to say "Oh, BTW the big bad this whole time was actually that one guy that they talked with for 5 minutes before he unceremoniously got shot. Garrett is just an imposter who stole his credit at the last minute." Especially in light of the last episode, showing that Garrett has well over 15 years as a Hydra member, and was the original Deathlok (thus connections to Cybertek), and that he has Raina's derivative Extremis serum integrated into his tech, and that he has pretty much always been a manipulative psychopath.

Also, the promo image of Nash in the wheelchair was a bit too spot-on to all the fan theories (including mine) that the Clairvoyant was MODOK. It felt like a deliberate fan-tease, and therefore likely to be false; similar to how they yanked us around earlier in the season with fake evidence for the LMD theory.

So to answer your points more directly: it was clear Coulson was in full "find the Clairvoyant" mode. Garrett needed to cover his butt and tie up this loose end.

(a-c) It had to look convincing enough to fool Coulson and his team. I doubt they dug a brand new underground maze, but rather found an existing one that wasn't in use.

(d) Garrett is the one who provided the list to Coulson, and had enough faith that Coulson & Skye could weed out the inferior options. He sent Deathlok to the proper site to engage them and ensure that they knew it was the right one. Why else would Deathlok have been there, except as bait?

(e-g) You've gotta take some risks to make it look real, but has DL getting shot ever been close to seriously injuring him? Garrett himself shot DL several times earlier in that episode, at the safehouse. OTOH, if Garrett were worried about casualties on Coulson's side, he could've told DL to spare them.

(h-k) This is the part that had me stumped for a little while, but there's a really simple solution. You don't hack the speech program -- you hack the speaker. Garrett has shown an incredible adeptness at getting people to do what he wants them to do. From getting Ward to join Hydra, and getting Raina to develop a derivative Extremis, to getting Quinn to join his cause, and getting Coulson to track down the GH325 and hunt down Nash. Garrett's always had everyone playing into his hand. It wouldn't be that difficult for him to get Nash to play along. I don't know what that deal looked like, but he could promise Nash pretty much anything. Want a miracle cure drug based on alien physiology? Sure, I can give you that. Tired of life, and ready to shed this mortal coil? I can help you there too. Either way, just play along, and make it dramatic, and I can get you whatever you want.

(l) This is a question I have. Did Ward really unexpectedly botch Garrett's plan, or did Garrett already know about Ward's "weakness" and play directly into it? By pressing all Ward's buttons to make him snap, Garrett doesn't have to worry about Nash actually telling anyone the truth. Coulson's Clairvoyant was found and taken care of. Case closed. (And he would've gotten away with it if it weren't for that meddling Skye...). As a bonus, this act makes Ward an outcast on his team, and more likely to turn back to Garrett for help. Once again, Garrett is trying to take away any weaknesses from Ward.

Or, to put it another way... your theory requires that the big bad who was driving all the events of the first half of the season was some random guy who had less character development than Scorch.
 
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(l) This is a question I have. Did Ward really unexpectedly botch Garrett's plan, or did Garrett already know about Ward's "weakness" and play directly into it? By pressing all Ward's buttons to make him snap, Garrett doesn't have to worry about Nash actually telling anyone the truth. Coulson's Clairvoyant was found and taken care of. Case closed. (And he would've gotten away with it if it weren't for that meddling Skye...). As a bonus, this act makes Ward an outcast on his team, and more likely to turn back to Garrett for help. Once again, Garrett is trying to take away any weaknesses from Ward.

I think Ward shooting Nash was always the plan, and Ward was in on it. He obviously knew Garrett was the Clairvoyant and not this guy, so he'd have no reason to believe Skye would be genuinely threatened. But it gave him an excuse to do it, without looking suspicious.

Nash threatens Skye, Ward's "weakness" he shoots her, they have to write the Clairvoyant off as dead and drop the case. If Deathlok lays low they'll assume his eyepiece blew and write him off as dead too. Garrett can then go about his business on the down low without worrying about Coulson hunting him because they'll think its over. They won't suspect foul play, because it would look like he pushed Ward's buttons and he made a rash decision. Ward would get in trouble yeah but it wouldn't look suspicious.

Then either Ward gets a slap on the wrist and gets to keep spying on Coulson's team, with none of them really being that mad once they got over it because he killed him to protect Skye. Or Ward gets relieved from duty by the higher ups (Hydra would have enough pull to keep him from being outright tossed in jail) and he goes to work for Garrett on the sly.

Granted it was rendered completely moot only a few hours later when Hydra was exposed but I think that was the plan. And even then Coulson wasn't fooled. He correctly guessed Nash was a prop, that the Clairvoyant was really using Shield intel to fake psychic power, and even that Ward shooting him was staged and he wasn't really on their side, although the confusion of the next episode caused him to think he was mistaken about that, although that itself was a mistake.
 
^^^ this guy, he gets it

Well that's my working theory anyway. The exposure of HYDRA changed Garrett's plans dramatically
 
Or, to put it another way... your theory requires that the big bad who was driving all the events of the first half of the season was some random guy who had less character development than Scorch.

Brad Dourif isn't "some random guy." If he was, Thomas Nash would have been played by Joe Q. Random Actor.

Brad Dourif is a veteran, critically acclaimed actor with an impressive resume. Brad Dourif is well-known for, and practically typecast as, sinister psychopaths, and it's a type of role he actively seeks out.

To believe that Marvel Studios would hire someone like him to play a role that literally requires NO acting whatsoever is mind-boggling.

As for "less character development": that's what Season 2 is for. :word: We've got a whole new season to bring back Dourif and uncover the backstory of The Clairvoyant and his operations.
 
How about this

Brad Dourif may be a Marvel fan
Probably Whedon also

I guarantee there are many good actors who want in


Also people, he's not Olivier or Mckellan
In many ways he's the middle age guy version of a scream queen

No offense meant he is a good actor.
I started this thread it's been good, but we are over analyzing
 
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Its also possible Dourif considered a silent role not using his voice, an acting challenge and wanted to give it a shot.
 
You are over analyzing. Garrett ask Ward to shoot Nash to close the case and it didn't work.
 
I think the clairvoyant is....

THE CLAIRVOYANT! :wow:

Sorry, but I don't think it's Garrett still. Gotta be better than that.
 

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