Who is the clairvoyant.

Discussion in 'Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.' started by mocomic, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. iambranded Registered

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    Deathlok said to Garrett "I was told to never leave your side"
    Come on guys and girls......clairvoyant still is and unsolved issue
     
  2. cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    Interesting take, but where's the body?
    Also, everyone can make their own interpretation, but this looks more like old scarring instead of fresh blood:

    [​IMG]


    Why? Again: if Nash was just a patsy, *anybody* could have played that role. You don't hire an accomplished cult fave actor to play a five-minute bit that requires no acting or interaction with the scene whatsoever.

    So, she couldn't have met *Thomas Nash* before, without actually realizing he's *The Clairvoyant* until *after* the events of Season 1....? Okay.

    That's kind of the whole point of taking GH325 and doing the whole resurrection thing, you know....?

    And you know the timetable of Nash's life how, exactly....? The only thing we know about his backstory is that he was deemed to have enough psychic powers to be classified as an unregistered gifted and be hired onto "Department H" (whatever that is; we know what it is in the comics); that he had a paralyzing stroke at *some point* in his life and was committed to a rest home; that at *some point* he was moved (voluntarily or involuntarily) to a subterranean lair 500 miles away.

    Anyhow, the issue is far from settled until Season 2 begins. I think there's plenty of proof that Nash is The Clairvoyant and that's him in the finale; you guys don't think that, and we've got a whole 'nuther summer to sit back and wait.

    Meantime, I'd just like to leave a couple of pics right here.

    [​IMG]

    Thomas Nash, Episode 16: "The End of the Beginning"

    [​IMG]

    Skye's father, Episode 22: "The Beginning of the End"
     
    #702 cherokeesam, May 14, 2014
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
  3. mkilban2 family1stclothingco.com

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    I don't think we'll see the Clairvoyant issue go into the next season. Raina was working with "Tub Person/Skye's Parent" to learn from The Clairvoyant who was precieved psychic. Once she got in and realized it was just Garrett with a high clearance level she was upset that her mission was over essentially. She then learned a bunch about Skye and that they are "similar" or whatever and seemingly has brought that information back to Tub Person.

    I don't understand why Thomas Nash would matter in any of this? He was just a decoy like everything else in my eyes. I haven't seen any clues as to him mattering more than what he was there for. And I've never heard of the actor who played him so idk why that would really matter either.

    I think there's much bigger topics to handle that the Clairvoyant, which was actually just Garrett and the people behind computers at Cybertek. Hence why all they Clairvoyant "controlled" people are now free from it.

    The mysteries now turn to Skye and Tub Person and whatever he and Raina want from her, and rebuilding Coulson's SHIELD.
     
  4. mkilban2 family1stclothingco.com

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    I just don't get the point of a Clairvoyant now.. the Clairvoyant all along wanted to know why/how Coulson was resurrected, we've learned all of that and so did he (whether it was Garrett or not, that information is no longer a secret.)

    So why now all of the sudden is the Clairvoyant interested in Skye? Makes no sense based on what we know and have seen this entire season. Thomas Nash may return, idk how if you're shot in the chest, but it won't have anything to do with the Clairvoyant.
     
  5. cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    Yes, the "why/how" is solved, but that wasn't the point in The Clairvoyant's quest. The Clairvoyant most likely wanted to actually *use* that to be able to come back from the dead, or *bring* somebody back from the dead. In other words, if Nash wanted to die and come back from the dead in a better, non-quadriplegic body (a fairly sound wish, you'd think?), then he'd want to find out the "why/how" of GH325. Now that his team got it, they used it on him, and successfully brought him back from the dead, just like Coulson. (This would probably also explain Raina's comment about "I bet you never thought you'd see me again." What with you being dead, and all.)

    Being Skye's father is a whole 'nuther story, granted. But before we start digging up theories on that, it might be wise to point out exec producer Jeff Bell's comments tonight:

    I mean, why even say that, unless there was room for doubt?
     
  6. Heretic Registered

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    Yes, because...as Garrett pointed out...there was a handler who was doing the typing for Garrett. That was also dealt with when Skye busted into Cybertek and stopped their control of the Extremis soldiers because the handler wasn't able to type into their eye things.
     
  7. Human Torch Registered

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    Without reading any recent posts,let me venture a wild guess: All the conspiracy theorists that thought Garrett wasn't the Clairvoyant....still think Garrett wasn't the Clairvoyant.

    Big shock there.:dry:
     
  8. samsnee Ok

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    http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/05/14/shield-finale-postmortem/

    Now that we’ve pretty much closed the book on The Clairvoyant, does that mean there’s going to be a new Big Bad for season two? Maybe someone else involved in Hydra?
    BELL: I don’t know if that’ll necessarily come out of Hydra. Villains are hard to sustain in season long arc because you know it’s a villain. You catch them, they get away, you catch them, they get away, and then it goes on and on forever, like the coyote and the roadrunner. And so part of the reason we held off on the reveal — we talked about The Clairvoyant, but even that came later, and then the reveal was later so that you didn’t feel like you were going back and forth. And we have people on the villain side who survived, like Raina, like Quinn, like Ward, who still exist. And so we have a through line, but I think there’s also an opportunity for us to make season two wholly its own rather than just a continuation of season one.

    I gotta admit, I was sad to see Garrett go, as much as he deserved all of his deaths…
    BELL: Mr. Bill Paxton came in and he was such a good friend to the show. He knew from the beginning that he was going to be The Clairvoyant and arise to be the Big Bad, but he just played it with such relish. And he and Clark [Gregg] hit it off so well that was really fun to watch that relationship grow, and then the onscreen betrayal…and then after Garrett gets shot up with GH-325, the wild spin that sends him on. Bill just leaned into that as much as possible.
     
  9. Norrin Parker Majestor of the Shi'ar

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    After reading this I hope people can put the Clairvoyant behind them. It was Garret not everything is a big conspiracy. Unless you're....nevermind.
     
  10. cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    cir·***·lo·cu·tion

    /ˌsɜr[​IMG]kəm[​IMG]loʊˈkyu[​IMG]ʃən/ Show Spelled[sur-kuh[​IMG][​IMG]m-loh-kyoo-shuh[​IMG][​IMG]n] Show IPA
    noun 1. a roundabout or indirect way of speaking; the use of more words than necessary to express an idea.

    2. a roundabout expression.






    Like any politician, athlete, or Hollywood producer, Jeff Bell answers the question with a non-answer. When it's all said and done, all he says there is that the Season 2 Big Bad won't likely come from HYDRA, and that a lot of the villains from Season 1 come back for Season 2, but they're trying to make Season 2 unique instead of *just* a continuation of Season 1's story. Season 1's story was about HYDRA and a fake Clairvoyant (any way you slice it), whereas Season 2 could very well be about a real Clairvoyant and his team's plots and schemes. It mirrors IM3 in a large way.

    "But....but he said Garrett was The Clairvoyant...!" Yeah. He also likely told Saffron Burrows (Victoria Hand) she'd be The Clairvoyant. He also likely told Brad Dourif (Thomas Nash) that *he'd* be The Clairvoyant. Chloe Bennet said that none of the actors know what the writers are really doing to their characters, or where their story arcs will ultimately lead; they (the actors) are just as much in the dark about the truth as we fans are.
     
  11. reddog271 Registered

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    Dude.. let it go. The Clairvoyant from the makers of the show's mouth was Garrett and he's gone.
     
  12. cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    How about *you* let go of "letting it go?"

    I don't want to drag this crap out any longer than any of you guys, but the longer you keep saying "it's this way," I'm going to keep saying "no, it's this way."

    Suffice to say, the ending scene of Ep. 22 leaves the question still up in the air, and that's most likely what the showrunners are hoping for, isn't it? A big cliffhanger fans can debate all summer long? Come back in Season 2 and let's find out together who Bloody Hands Guy is; *then* I'll "let it go," one way or another. Fair enough?
     
  13. Norrin Parker Majestor of the Shi'ar

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  14. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Only now, some of them think he's the "real Mandarin", too.

    :doh:
     
  15. Human Torch Registered

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    We should have a clairvoyant watch next season to see how long these guys will go on clinging to their theory.:hehe:

    How many episodes with no mention of the clairvoyant will it take in the 2nd season to change your mind? 2? 8? 12? the season finale?
     
  16. Heretic Registered

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    No, it doesn't. Raina was working with a guy she had met before. The Clairvoyant was a guy she started working for to help the first guy (among other reasons), and she had never met The Clairvoyant.

    Especially if the assumption is that The Clairvoyant is Nash...since Nash was unable to move his arm to pick up a picture.

    There isn't a scrap of evidence to suggest that they are continuing the mystery of The Clairvoyant. In fact, all evidence seems to suggest that they defeated this season's villain and will move on to a new villain next season.
     
  17. ares834 Vader's Fist

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    Halfway through Season 4. :o
     
  18. cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    As soon as we find out the identity of Bloody Hand Guy. Fair enough? He's the guy I believe is Nash, so it's cut and dried. Either he is, or he ain't. I won't go past that if he turns out to be someone else.

    Hey, thanks for continuing to drag this out, guys, when I told you all I'd drop it when *you* dropped it. Good listeners.

    It's this simple, Heretic: she says "I bet you never thought you'd see me again." Meaning: "I bet you didn't think the resurrection would 'take.'" He died, so that he could be resurrected, regenerated, healed with GH325. So here he is in "recovery," still a mess, but getting better and stronger by the moment. Is it that hard to swallow? Seems fairly reasonable from a comic-book writing standpoint, don't you think?

    *Edit: Incidentally, this talk about "moving on to a new villain next season," even from EP Jeff Bell. Pretty disingenuous and completely disproven by the fact that the finale sets up cliffhangers for the Season 1 villains. Raina, Quinn, Graviton, Skye's Monster Dad. What, exactly, is "new" about these stories compared to Season 1?
     
    #718 cherokeesam, May 14, 2014
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
  19. Heretic Registered

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    It is new because I've read comics before. As I've mentioned...in comics there is an A plot....Superman fighting Brainiac...and there will be a few pages given to Lois Lane investigating some mystery. Then, Superman defeats Brainiac and all is well...except that on the last page Lois discovers that Lex has a plan to kill Superman and she gets kidnapped. That is just the way comics work. It's the way this show is working.

    But even given your scenario, it makes no sense. You're saying that Nash was The Clairvoyant, and Raina was looking for his daughter for him. Raina was desperate to meet The Clairvoyant, despite actually meeting him before and wanting to help him. Then she meets the fake Clairvoyant...who looks nothing like the man she knew to be the real Clairvoyant, but she goes along with him anyway, even giving him a vial of what she has been trying to desperately get. This fake Clairvoyant has access to everything that we have been told The Clairvoyant is doing, most importantly the tech to order the soldiers what to do in their eye things. He has a staff at Cybertek who has been pretending to be The Clairvoyant...doing absolutely everything that we have heard that The Clairvoyant has done in the show. Meanwhile, the real Clairvoyant is dead. After the fake Clairvoyant is killed, Raina helps resurrect the real Clairvoyant, who did absolutely none of what The Clairvoyant storyline involved, since we have learned that Garrett/Hydra/Cybertek was behind everything that was done in the show.

    If that is the story, then it is freaking stupid.
     
  20. Human Torch Registered

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    ^ Sounds like a complete story existing outside anything that's been shown onscreen.(If not outright contradicting what's been shown onscreen.)
     
  21. Mike Murdock Registered

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    He was told by his handlers at Cybertek.

    Either way, this person can't be the Clairvoyant (even if you want him to be Nash, that would just mean that Nash isn't the Clairvoyant). Raina had never met the Clairvoyant and had to ask Po what he was like. This person, whom she referred to as Skye's father, is clearly someone she met before. Simply put, he can't be the Clairvoyant.

    Now I also don't think it would make sense for Nash to intentionally pretend to be the Clairvoyant and pretend to be paraplegic if he has apparently little to no connection, but that's not important right now. I also don't know why the actor who played him would shave his head (or they'd recast him) just for a one minute scene at the end. But, once again, I'm leaving that aside. We can move that discussion to the "who is the bloody-hand man" thread. This one is about the Clairvoyant, who clearly is not Nash.

    Fair enough. Although I'd say I'd hold you to this, but you also said you'd end it when the season ended without any additional reveals that tied anyone else as the Clairvoyant. What if that person is revealed to not be the Clairvoyant, but they show another shadowy person sitting down? Will that person be the Clairvoyant? What if they show another shadowy person standing up? After all, Nash could not move at all. The person shown at the end could move his arms and hand. Clearly, if Nash could do that, there's no reason to think he can't stand up.

    Given this, are you sticking to your point that the reveal of that shadowy person will end the debate?
     
  22. just one thing Registered

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    maybe but the story the writers have already presented was an interesting twist. The Clairvoyant was a dirty shield agent who did not have level 10 clearance and did not know about project Tahiti, he did not have clairvoyant powers and was only pretending. but you could be right, its a comic universe and being dead is not the handy cap it is in this one. Say you will be waiting a few seasons for a resolution on it though, would be a bit much to bring thomas nash back in say any of the next.... fourteen seasons.
     
  23. Vartha Mod of Thunder

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    EASY people! We have a few months to discuss what is what way, let's not get banned before then lol
     
  24. cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    That would be because Heretic, as usual, is nowhere close to the mark about what I'm talking about. But whatever, I'm done until next season. Anybody wants a blow by blow account of how my theory works out, I'll be glad to PM when I get the time.




    Absolutely. I'm all-in on Bloody Hands Guy being Nash. I was looking for a reveal of Nash in Ep. 22, and I'm 110% convinced I got it there. If I'm wrong, there's nothing left for me to look for, end of that story.
     
  25. Roadkill Not a Side-Kick

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    Aside from all of the previous arguments made against the idea of Thomas Nash being the Clairvoyant, I'd argue that it makes little sense from the show runners point of view at this point. If Nash was the Clairvoyant, Brad Dourif would have made his appearance in this last episode while there still was a chance that general audience members might remember his brief appearance as the "fake" Clairvoyant. By the time that they would get around to the "big reveal" next season, most audience members would probably be scratching their heads trying to remember who this person was and why they are supposed to care. It would have lost all of its dramatic impact at that point.
     

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