Homecoming Who should be the Villain in Spider-Man (2017)? - Part 4

[The Overlord]

Just adapt the first episode of the Spectacular Spider-Man, without the mob subplot.

There, plot sorted.

Sarcasm aside, there is a huge difference between a 2 hour movie and a cartoon episode that lasts 22 minutes, you need to have Vulture do more stuff to carry a movie rather then a cartoon episode. This movie should feel like a movie, not a stretched out TV cartoon episode.

 

[Dark Raven]

But here is the thing about Flacon, he is a supporting character, he is neither the main protagonist or the main antagonist.

Vulture as the Big Bad of a film, would drive the plot much more than Falcon would in the Captain America films and a compelling Big Bad needs more then to be gimmick and an excuse for some aerial battles (which we have already seen in the past films with Green Goblin), a compelling Big Bad actually drives forward the main plot of a film, so you need more then what people are describing Vulture as in this thread. Vulture at the least, needs a scheme that is more clever then robs banks.

The thing I like about Mysterio is he would provide a psychological challenge to Spidey, rather than a physical one and I don't think Vulture is a very impressive physical challenge, so I think you have to pair him up with a more physical villain and focus on Vulture's cunning, if he were to be the Big bad of the film.

I also don't think the old vs. young theme is interesting enough in of itself to instantly make Vulture a compelling villain, you need to add more into the mix.

First off, you talk about a "big bad", implying he's a bad behind another lesser bad that Spidey might face. Why can't he just be "the bad"? But even if he is the "big bad", they can easily write a compelling backstory and motivation to drive the film's plot. It's not difficult to do.

And second, Vulture doesn't have to be limited to just robbing banks. He could be involved in more terrorist-like activities, gunning down those who wronged him from the skies, or even just innocent civilians for the sake of it. And if Michael Keaton were playing Vulture, you can bet he'd be more of a physical challenge anyway. He's not going to be a weak old man.

 

[The Shape]

I don't think people can think that Vulture is lame but Falcon isn't, when they would be quite similar. Falcon's aerial scenes in CA:TWS were among the highlights. But we haven't seen an evil version of that using far deadlier force, which is what Vulture would do, perhaps having a more advanced, sophisticated version that he has invented.

I personally think they're both somewhat lame, and the last thing I want is for Falcon to be shoe-horned into another MCU movie -- especially Spider-man's first movie.

 

[Dark Raven]

I personally think they're both somewhat lame, and the last thing I want is for Falcon to be shoe-horned into another MCU movie -- especially Spider-man's first movie.

The point is that if someone thinks one is cool, they can't think the other is lame since they're so similar. Of course if you think Falcon is lame in the first place, you're not going to like Vulture. That's a given. It's like if you think Iron Man is lame, you're unlikely to like War Machine too. But if you do think the Iron Man concept is cool, then you can't really think the War Machine concept is lame.

 

[The Overlord]

First off, you talk about a "big bad", implying he's a bad behind another lesser bad that Spidey might face. Why can't he just be "the bad"? But even if he is the "big bad", they can easily write a compelling backstory and motivation to drive the film's plot. It's not difficult to do.

And second, Vulture doesn't have to be limited to just robbing banks. He could be involved in more terrorist-like activities, gunning down those who wronged him from the skies, or even just innocent civilians for the sake of it. And if Michael Keaton were playing Vulture, you can bet he'd be more of a physical challenge anyway. He's not going to be a weak old man.

Big Bad is just slang for the main villain of a story, the source of the conflict in a story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bad

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigBad

If Vulture is the main villain who drives the plot forward in the film, he would be the Big Bad, no matter if other villains appear or not, but frankly I would pair him up with a thuggish villain, because he is not a very impressive physical threat. As I have been saying for a while, I don't see what Vulture brings to the table, that Green Goblin doesn't do better.


Here is the problem with Vulture, he is not a very consistently written character, sometimes he is given sympathetic aspects, other times he is written as an evil villain with no redeeming characteristics. Sometimes he is written as clever and other times he is only marginally intelligent then the more thuggish villains. So what kind of character would he be in the film, a character with redeeming characteristics or just an evil psychopath? A mastermind or just a thug?

 

[Web-Head]

A mastermind with redeeming characteristics. His tech was stolen from him and he never got the money for it.

 

[Dark Raven]

He could be like what Whiplash should've been like in Iron Man 2 if he didn't drop out for more than half the movie and the rest of the film were better written. He believed his father's tech was stolen from him by Howard Stark and went on a terror spree.

 

[BatsDC]

I think you'd have to have whatever happens to Toomes happen in the present to justify when he becomes the Vulture.

Falcon's had his wings for a while, so perhaps have Toomes find out that Oscorp has been taking credit for all his inventions since, including the wings? Or are now mass producing them? He complains, Norman fires him, and Toomes takes revenge.

 

[Dark Raven]

Why not have Osborn as the seeming "good guy" that Peter has to defend/ protect against a threat like the Vulture? Spidey will just think he's a Harry's dad and a decent businessman. Maybe something Toomes says in battle will cause him to question Osborn and make him suspicious but he dismissed it in this movie.

 

[terry78]

It just now hit me that Falcon and Vulture basically have the exact same tech.

 

[BatsDC]

Maybe have Stark be a business partner with Osborn or something and he and Spidey clue into Osborn doing some shady stuff

 

[Rorschach2012]

It just now hit me that Falcon and Vulture basically have the exact same tech.

Yeah it'd be wise to integrate that into the plot. Oscorp got the military contract and took credit for the invention, while Toomes was the true inventor.

I would be totally down to see Vulture in this. That Vulture origin episode of Spectacular Spider-Man could be a good basic blueprint for this film. And it's a great introduction to Norman.

I'm hoping that Keaton is Norman, but I'm fine with him as Vulture. Keaton as Osborn though would be an absolute slam dunk perfect choice. Just imagine it...

ever since the people got the rights back to SPIDER MAN, one of the most exciting developments was the fact that the MCU could properly introduce Norman as a major overarching villain like he deserves. Norman should appear in multiple movies and be deeply ingrained into the MCU. Keaton as that type of character would be a dream! He looks the part and could nail the acting. Green Goblin is basically a ****ing combination of Lex Luthor and The Joker, and that is ****ing awesome. Keaton comes back into the world of comic books and plays a Joker-like character this time? Sign me up. Him coming back to DC would've been too on the nose but this? This is just too perfect. I can't really imagine a better choice for Norman.

 

[BatsDC]

I think he's a little too old for Norman, especially if we wouldn't be getting to GG until 2, 3 films down the line.

 

[Dasher10]

I can totally picture Michael Keaton playing the Vulture in this movie. When I heard his name, I immediately thought he's probably playing Vulture. I'm glad because I've been wanting to see the Vulture on the big screen.

I'm let down. The Spider-Man villains who I really like are Mysterio, Carnage, Doc Ock, Spider-Queen, Hobgoblin, Shocker, Alistair Smythe, Venom, Joystick and Scorpion. Only Doc Ock, Smythe and Venom were shown on screen before and the latter was miscast and lacked character development and Smythe was just a cameo.

Vulture is honestly a lame villain. He's just a guy with a hang-glider who thinks he can fight Spider-Man. I'm not a fan of this decision because there are much better options, just like how I'm not a fan of Michele Gonzales replacing Randy Robertson as Peter's best friend in high school.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I think he's a little too old for Norman, especially if we wouldn't be getting to GG until 2, 3 films down the line.

Good point. they need to build towards GG over time and he is 64 now. He's probably just Vulture.

I really hope that Norman is in this movie though, MCU GG is going to be fantastic.

 

[Web-Head]

Good point. they need to build towards GG over time and he is 64 now. He's probably just Vulture.

I really hope that Norman is in this movie though, MCU GG is going to be fantastic.

I bet Norman will be in it and be built up over a series of films.

 

[The Overlord]

I think you'd have to have whatever happens to Toomes happen in the present to justify when he becomes the Vulture.

Falcon's had his wings for a while, so perhaps have Toomes find out that Oscorp has been taking credit for all his inventions since, including the wings? Or are now mass producing them? He complains, Norman fires him, and Toomes takes revenge.

You need Vulture to do things that builds towards a climax though, he can't just try to kill Norman and do nothing else for the rest of the film. Maybe he can try to blow up Oscorp in he finale or something.

Also would Vulture have loved ones in the film? He seems to have loved ones that seem to get instantly forgotten in the comics. I think redeeming qualities go beyond just having a valid excuse for your actions, loving someone besides yourself is a big redeeming quality.

One thing I like about Mysterio is it would be really easy to make him into an evil psychopath villain, he never had any real redeeming characteristics in the comics, but often gets saddled with generic villain plots. It would be easy to up the sadism and cruelty with Mysterio and have a truly unsympathetic villain, which is something I don't think he we seen in Spider-Man films, a truly irredeemable evil villain.

 

[BatsDC]

Maybe have him have a daughter? She could go to Midtown too so there's a connection to Peter. I know Raimi was going to have the Vulture's daughter, but in this just have her be normal. Maybe he's estranged from her or something, for extra drama. He's trying to get his life together but then all his work is stolen from him by Osborn.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Why not have Osborn as the seeming "good guy" that Peter has to defend/ protect against a threat like the Vulture? Spidey will just think he's a Harry's dad and a decent businessman. Maybe something Toomes says in battle will cause him to question Osborn and make him suspicious but he dismissed it in this movie.

... again like Spectacular Spider-Man...

 

[Nicko-Ray]

I'm down for Keaton as Toomes. As long as he brings something to the role other than what most of the Marvel villains have been. (Ronan the Accuser, Yellowjacket, etc.) He obviously has the skills to do so. Just depends on how they treat a villain for Spider-Man this time around.

 

[BatsDC]

... again like Spectacular Spider-Man...

Which is the best Spidey adaptation out there. There is no issue here. t:

 

[Dark Raven]

... again like Spectacular Spider-Man...

I didn't know they did that in there.

 

[Web-Head]

Maybe they could adapt this

The Vulture has come to care deeply for both his grandson and his mother, committing a series of robberies to finance a cure for his grandson's terminal illness

There's a lot of things they can pull from and a lot of things they can change to make Vulture a compelling villain. Not to mention they want a smaller scale type of film where Spider-Man doesn't have to save the world, or even entire city.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I didn't know they did that in there.

Yup.

And I was agreeing with you, by the way.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Maybe have him have a daughter? She could go to Midtown too so there's a connection to Peter. I know Raimi was going to have the Vulture's daughter, but in this just have her be normal. Maybe he's estranged from her or something, for extra drama. He's trying to get his life together but then all his work is stolen from him by Osborn.

Reminds me of marvel knights spider-man where he has a grandson(daughter?) and he's stealing money to pay for his medical treatment. Something like that. It added a nice layer to the character.