Who should play Ms. Marvel if she gets her own film?

Discussion in 'Marvel Films' started by Dasher10, Aug 7, 2013.

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Who's the best choice to be Ms. Marvel?

  1. Kristen Bell

  2. Abbie Cornish

  3. Katee Sackhoff

  4. Maggie Grace

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. cph9fa

    cph9fa Well-Known Member

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    Similar to what I'm thinking, although I thought it might be cool if, instead of Mar Vell transforming her to save her life (or her falling victim to an explosion), she willfully chooses to transform herself in an effort to save his life -- despite knowing that she will lose her humanity, and that the process may not work.
     
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  2. haephestus

    haephestus Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^

    Oooooh yes. I like that.

    Far better characterisation for Carol with her being an attempted rescuer as opposed to the damsel in distress.

    Perhaps Captain Mar-Vell could be captured by the Kree/Skrull/whatever for nefarious and undoubtedly deadly purposes and Carol realises that as a human she won't be able to rescue him, so she deliberately exposes herself to the Terrigen Mist to acquire the powers she needs to save Captain Mar-Vell?

    That could be a great way to approach it, since Carol willingly sacrifices her humanity to try and save Captain Mar-Vell and in the process becomes one of the world's most powerful heroes.
     
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  3. DrCosmic

    DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    Hmmm... I like her trying to save him, I don't think gaining super powers counts as a sacrifice though. Her failing to save him in the end though, that could be epic and tragic.

    I'm still skeptical of the romantic drama tone, because it's a bit anti-action. And it does require that Carol and Mar-Vell's relationship be romantic and intense and drive the story. A Mr. and Mrs. Smith might be a good angle for the idea of an action romance type movie. That's more action romance, y'know? This Means War, Killers, Scott Pilgrim vs The World, Knight and Day... those types of action romance movies. They're not romantic dramas like Titanic or The Notebook.

    There does need to be some kind of background purview. For instance with Iron Man, you know whatever you do in the realm of corporate espionage and high tech gizmos will be unique to Iron Man. For Cap whatever you do with military and spycraft will be unique to him. For Thor, whatever you do with mystical realms will be unique to him. For the Guardians of the Galaxy, whatever you do with space and aliens will be unique to them, minus bringing them to Earth, which is where the Avengers show up.

    So how do you make Captain Marvel's unique to it's own franchise, without the risk of doing a story too much like a future Cap/Thor/IM/GOTG film? And keeping it separate from any Avengers storylines? Shadow alien wars? Invisible Kree and shapeshifting skrulls? That's way too specific, but its the best I could come up with.

    But Action Romance works for me, regardless.
     
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  4. haephestus

    haephestus Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^

    I think it should be somewhat easy for Carol and Mar-Vell's relationship to be romantic and intense. Ideally, they should be introduced as a "couple". Carol is in the military and has been working with Walter who is consulting for the military on some McGuffin (maybe trying to harness the military power of another Infinity Stone). They've moved past the "are they or aren't they" stage and are dating, but obviously both wondering what the future holds for very different reasons - Carol isn't sure about dating a civilian and Walter isn't sure about dating a human.

    Then Walter is attacked/kidnapped/whatever and you get the dramatic reveal that he is a Kree. Cue relationship dramas. Then they eventually pull together as a team, only for things to end tragically. I think it could work.

    I agree that it definitely needs to be more Mr and Mrs Smith and less Pretty Woman. I definitely want there to be some playful ... biting comments between Carol and Walter. I really wouldn't want their relationship to be presented as perfect and easy.

    A distinctive setting for Captain Marvel could be an issue, but I think the blend of military and space could set it apart from Captain America and Guardians. Perhaps they could reveal SWORD mid-way through or towards the end of the film to truly confirm the "military in space" aspect? Maybe Abigail Brand could even be Carol's BFF in the military (either in a junior role with leadership in a future film or an undercover role for SWORD)?
     
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  5. cph9fa

    cph9fa Well-Known Member

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    I haven't figured a distinctive setting yet either, but I think one recurring theme would have to be flight. I was thinking that in Act I she'd be piloting a fighter or a quinjet for the USAF or SHIELD, then in Act II, she'd be forced to pilot a Kree shuttle for some reason (maybe Mar Vell is busy elsewhere, or they get separated, or she's escaping someone; whatever), then by Act III, she has her powers, and flies without any device.

    Interesting idea to start with them already together. I have mixed feelings on that. It makes the story less rushed and arguably more natural, but on the other hand it sort of ignore show don't tell -- their first meeting could be interesting for screen. But romances of any stripe aren't my strong suit.
     
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  6. DrCosmic

    DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    That's really good stuff. Starting them off in a relationship is a bit of a stroke of genius. It does take out the first meeting, but if you play that off as boring and incidental and let that be part of the story, it could be really interesting. Also could be fun if they remember it differently, and how it actually happened is a point of argument/contention. It does have the effect of removing Walter as a central character, and making him more than untouchable hero type... but that could be cool.

    The unique setting is just difficult. Even if you give her hidden aliens, like MIB you still might overlap with Inhumans if that ever gets off the ground. Even splitting the difference between Cap and GOTG leaves you in a place a lot like Avengers. Unless I'm reading it wrong and it should in fact be a combination, where the military comes into conflict with aliens. When it's both military and aliens, that's where Captain Marvel lies, and that rings true, that works.

    Flight is good, and that definitely should show that off a couple times before we see her with any powers. I think it would be cool if she fought "side by side" with Mar-Vell at one point, her flying a craft, him just... flying, both shooting, very fun.

    Love Abigail Brand, ideal supporting character here.
     
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  7. haephestus

    haephestus Well-Known Member

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    Captain Marvel definitely needs some flight! Both of the jet and super-powered variety.

    I just hope they can handle it better than the Green Lantern flight scenes which generally seemed dull, again both the jet and the super-powered variety.

    It will be hard to explain the "ordinary" military dealing with any kind of threat from aliens after the introduction of SHIELD in the Marvel Movie Universe. But, Carol's airforce base (or other military outpost) could have their communications cut off from SHIELD by the Kree/Skrull/other alien. Or SHIELD could simply be slow in responding.

    To be fair, it's an issue in ALL of their movies post-Avengers. Simply mentioning SHIELD in Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 isn't necessarily enough to explain why they don't appear and also ignores the creation of The Avengers themselves. Perhaps some sort of isolation would be best.

    Walter could be working at a somewhat remote military outpost with the secret purpose of recreating the original experiment with the Terrigen Mist and humans (which resulted in the Inhumans). Walter may decide against going through with the experiments, leading to conflict with the Kree, but the military base is "cut off" from the rest of the world. Cue big battle, explosions, missiles (all the things Bay loves) and Carol's exposure to the Terrigen Mist. Perhaps once the Kree have kidnapped Walter, it could then move into outer space with Carol's rescue attempt?
     
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  8. DrCosmic

    DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    I don't think a stretch should be done, though, because what happens next time? You can't keep isolating her to keep out SHIELD. That not having her own setting really kills. I think there'll be a reason SHIELD isn't all that operational in Phase II, but I don't know how long that will last.

    I think Iron Man 1 had the super powers vs dogfight thing I'd expect/like to see from Ms. Marvel, but turned up a bit, and therein, I suppose, lies the problem, we already have a military contractor dogfighting super hero.

    Ms. Marvel is tough as heck to make unique, sheesh.

    Okay... this is a big one, because I would hate to make Monica Rambeau redundant, but give Ms. Marvel a limited form of her Binary powers. She absorbs energy, she transforms it, she outputs it. This makes her unique in her powerset, and allows her to interact with the environment/world on a different level. It helps address Whedon's 'another person to punch things' problem if she requires a lot of energy to be that physical powerhouse.

    This viewpoint puts her very much in line with this 'invisible war' that only Captain Marvel (whether Mar-Vell or herself) can see. This also explains why SHIELD isn't involved, because they simply cannot be aware of it. This also links to the idea of a seventh sense. In this way, Carol can also evoke more of a horror setting, another genre where female heroines are commonly celebrated.

    Tying in the Terrigen Mists at first I didn't like, but setting that up or nodding to that as a vehicle for how her DNA gets mixed with Mar-Vell's is pretty cool.

    In keeping with the horror theme, the setting could be on a very large Kree ship. The entire conflict could, ostensibly, take place there. You could have chase and prison break elements all in there, with horror on the side, and romance in the center. That would certainly separate it from other films in terms of the types of stories.

    Another thing you could do with SHIELD is make them present but unimportant. Yes, SHIELD is aware, but they don't care about one dying alien and his wolf-crying theories.
     
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  9. cph9fa

    cph9fa Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the military background of Captain America, similar powerset to Iron Man (flying/shooting/toughness), and an origin story somewhat similar to the Thor movie -- an alien warrior comes to Earth, assumes a fake identity, falls in love, vows to protect the planet & its inhabitants, and fights a giant robot controlled by his nemesis. If only Thor had died fighting the Destroyer, and Mjolnir were to fly into Jane's hands instead...

    I thought the energy absorption/projection would be a given. To be fair, Iron Man did have a bit of the absorption thing going on in The Avengers when he fought Thor (ZAAAP! "Power levels at 400%" "Well, how 'bout that?") but it's not really his usual thing. Having some of her powers depend on absorbing energy, and placing a limit on that helps keep everything balanced, too. Basically, make her act like a giant capacitor.

    With an alien horror setting, I go back to the idea of the Brood (Skrull would work too, but I'd rather set them up for an Avengers film.

    Possibly. I was considering the idea as well. At any rate, any Kree presence around Earth should probably tie in with the Inhumans in some way.

    Funny, I was also envisioning a Kree ship (the Helion, I suppose) and its prison as part of the setting, as you can see below.

    Here's the movie idea that's been coalescing in my mind over the last week or so. There are still some plot holes & motivations that could be tightened up, but its just meant as a general outline. Despite the recent posts abouve, this still includes their first meeting, and has the power based off Kree genetics + "nega bands" instead of Terrigen Mists.

    Act 1:
    - Mar Vell, Yon Rogg, and Una defeat the Brood, take POWs.
    - Yon Rogg is jealous of Mar Vell's fame, and wants his "Nega Bands".
    - Ronan assigns them to investigate Earth after Avengers & GotG.
    - Pilot Carol Danvers chases a UFO (actually Mar Vell's shuttle).
    - She engages, despite orders not to, and gets shot down.
    - She is suspended from flying and reassigned to security.
    - Carol & "Dr. Lawson" investigate an 0-8-4: an abandoned Kree outpost.
    - The Sentry activates, causing Mar Vell to reveal his identity to defeat it.

    Act 2:
    - Carol and Mar Vell do a lot of talking, etc...
    - Yon Rogg attempts to get Mar Vell tried for treason. Fails.
    - Una is disappointed with Mar Vell for being to close to Carol.
    - Yon Rogg secretly releases the Brood POWs on Earth.
    - Mar Vell fights them; gets overtaken.
    - Yon Rogg kidnaps Carol aboard his Kree ship.
    - Una lets Carol out of prison, so they can rescue Mar Vell.
    - Carol asks Una to use the genetic manipulator on her.
    - Yon Rogg orders Una to stop Carol's transformation.
    - She refuses he kills her.
    - Carol escapes Yon Rogg and pilots a Kree shuttle back to Earth
    - She is too late to save Mar Vell.
    - As Mar Vell dies, he charges Carol to guard the Nega Bands.

    Act 3:
    - Carol defeats the Brood & Yon Rogg.
    - She buries Mar Vell (and Una?). Possibly on the Moon.
    - SHIELD creates SWORD to investigate extraterrestrial threats.

    After credits:
    - The Skrull are concerned that the Kree have been to Earth, in violation of an ancient treaty.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  10. Spider-Vader

    Spider-Vader Mercin' & Workin'

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    I'm not huge on Carol & Mar-Vell being in a relationship. Why can't they just be friends with subtle hints that there could be something a bit more?
     
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  11. haephestus

    haephestus Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^

    I'd be fine with them just being friends.

    But, I think the emotional impact of Walter's death would be greater if they were more than friends. And I think there needs to be a stronger basis for Walter choosing Carol or somehow manipulating events to favour Carol when she acquires superpowers. I'm not sure I'd want it to be a random accident, even though I'm pretty sure that's the basis in the comics. I think it would be preferable if Walter recognised that Carol was someone special and that she was worthy or deserving of superpowers (although that does cross-over into Green Lantern territory once again with a jet fighter being chosen to be the hero).

    It would also be great to see a female superhero as the "hero" who is saving her man (although to be fair, that has been done to a limited extent with Black Widow and Hawkeye and with Pepper Potts and Iron Man).
     
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  12. DrCosmic

    DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    That kinda grew out of the idea of using the action romance genre to set Captain Marvel apart from other Marvel films, since the others are all so distinct, and Ms. Marvel can very easily be the sort of all your powers combined Avenger, making her less interesting, and causing her stories to duplicate other heroes' potential stories. I'm all for a better solution, I just haven't found one.

    [​IMG]

    I agree the Brood could be saved for Avengers, I also have to consider if they are firmly in X-Men territory as they really only bother them and occasionally the Marvels. For the horror angle, I might consider using Sentry-459 as THAT killer robot, like T1000 on steroids that goes all through the ship slaying who and whatever... but that could be too close to Ultron. :doh:

    Still, could be good, as that biological factor separates them from a killer robot. If not the Brood, maybe a single homocidal Skrull could be the set up for Secret Invasion or something in Avengers 4/5. Escalating the horror genre you could have the Sentry459 AND a Skrull AND the Brood. Everything is trying to kill you!

    I like it a lot. It does seem like it sets up well for a Kree-Skrull War in phases 4-6 like the Infinity Saga seems to dominate Phases 1-3. One thing, I don't think Una's presence adds to Carol's story much, other than making her a function of female agency instead of Mar-Vell's, Una makes Carol's relationship with Mar-Vell a bit taboo and unsympathetic.
     
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  13. cph9fa

    cph9fa Well-Known Member

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    Same here. The alien infiltration & horror angle might work, though.

    I went back on forth on whether to include that. If there are romantic undercurrents, having a subplot with Mar-Vell in a Betty and Veronica situation might create drama. Not completely necessary, though, and it seems like in Thor:TDW [BLACKOUT]they shied away from that angle (its sort of there in the subtext)[/BLACKOUT].

    Also, here's a great potential line, after she learns he's a Kree, as they're getting to know each other.

    Carol: "So, Mar-Vell, what about you? Do you have any family? Is there a Miss Mar-Vell somewhere waiting for you?"
     
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  14. cph9fa

    cph9fa Well-Known Member

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    Something to think about: Could Carol Danvers actually show up on one of the Netflix series instead of (or before) the big screen?

    In the original concept for the Jessica Jones series:
    Not sure how I feel about that; granted, that was written back even before AoS. If they use an un-powered Carol, and use an actress who can eventually transition to the big screen (Sackhoff*cough*), I guess it'd be OK. But they'd better not just jump in with her already having powers.
     
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  15. haephestus

    haephestus Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^

    That could be cool. Aka Jessica Jones definitely won't feature Luke Cage full-time at first instance since he will have his own TV series, but it's possible that they will cast Luke Cage and even Carol Danvers and introduce them in Jessica Jones.

    I guess timing will play a large factor. Both in terms of Netflix's schedule since Daredevil seems to be their main priority and whatever happens with Phase 3 of Marvel's Cinematic Universe. If they timed it right and introduced Carol in a few episodes of Jessica Jones before she becomes Captain Marvel, then it could be a good way to jump straight into the action in any "Captain Marvel" film since they could have partially established the character on the small screen (although they'll have to take into account that not everyone who goes to see Captain Marvel at the movies will have watched Jessica Jones on Netflix).
     
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  16. Red Mask

    Red Mask Human Killing Machine

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    This is a longshot but Caity Lotz, who plays Black Canary in Arrow could play the part. She looked very fit in the movie "The Machine".
     
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  17. Loki882

    Loki882 Well-Known Member

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    I really don't like the idea of Carol only getting her powers in the third act, that's not enough time. I don't just want her as a love interest/hostage for most of the movie.
     
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  18. Red Mask

    Red Mask Human Killing Machine

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    That brings up an interesting question about her character. What does being Ms/Captain Marvel mean to Carol? Spider-Man does it out of guilt over Uncle Ben's death and a sense of responsibility. Characters like Thor, Black Panther, and Sub-Mariner were born to become heroes. Iron Man made himself into one. For Captain America it was a call to duty. The X-Men see it as a crusade to achieve equality and peace between mutants and humans.

    For Carol, why does she don the costume everyday? Is it a career, or a calling?
     
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  19. DrCosmic

    DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    That is a good question. I think for Carol she's trying to prove herself worthy. She has something to prove, that she can do this, that she can be this person, that she's strong enough, brave enough and good enough to do so. For her, it's a challenge. She is a legacy character, and facing that legacy is her biggest goal. Mar-Vell believed in her... does she believe in herself? Will anyone else? That's a consistent angle for her in the comics, and it's a strong angle, that can really resonate with the audience who wants on some level to be superheroes, as well as with the trial of the modern woman to prove herself, much like we saw in Agent Carter's One Shot.

    That's why Mar-Vell has to be such an incredible hero. This is not to say that Carol would be a hostage for the first two acts. She would be a non-powered action hero, not unlike Black Widow in Iron Man 2. Her flying a jet backing up Captain Marvel as he has an aerial superhero fight. They'd be an action couple, at least in my version, because you have to seed throughout the movie that Carol is every bit the hero that Mar-Vell is, so when he, dying is all like "No, Carol, you saved me." The audience is all teary eyed like "Yes, yes she did!"

    Caity Loitz wouldn't be bad. I do prefer Katee Sachoff if we're going with a TV player though.

    I would be totally, totally 100% fine with an unpowered Carol being in the supporting cast on the Jessica Jones series. In fact, now that it's in my head, I now prefer it. I agree that she shouldn't start with powers, obviously.

    I can see the value of Una in a romantic drama, but when I look at "Romantic Action" films, there's not a lot of room for triangles, unless that is a main plot point of the film, like This Means War. I think that's just cuz it's hard the action metaphor would then have to include the romantic rivals duking it out, and Una vs Carol doesn't quite sound right.

    The "Is there a Ms. Marvel" line is cute though, they should easter egg that. Also "Warbird" as her pilot handle. I have no idea how to throw "Binary" in there... perhaps that's best saved for later.

    I do like what we have, this action romance horror alien flick. That angle holds true. Even if there's a sequel, you can bring in Wonder Man as a new love interest, or throw in Michael Rossi to have a triangle. Those two can actually battle each other, so to speak... or not so to speak. And who knows what might be trying to kill them then, y'know?
     
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  20. flickchick85

    flickchick85 Loose Seal

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    I think early in DeConnick's run, there was moment where Carol was reminiscing about how even as a kid, she knew she belonged in the sky, completely free of Earthly tethers. And when she told her dad she wanted to join the Air Force primarily to fulfill this dream, he told her he didn't feel women belonged in the military, so she joined the next day as basically a "f*** you" to him.

    So I feel like to her, these powers granted her the ability to rise above all the constraints and roadblocks she's run into all her life that were determined to tether her to Earth - freedom in its purest form, and the right she's earned to walk her own path and do what she's always known to be right, no matter what anyone says.
     
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  21. Hypestyle

    Hypestyle Well-Known Member

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    when will we get the hints of her appearances in a movie. Guardians?
     
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  22. cph9fa

    cph9fa Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much the way I'm envisioning it too, although its a valid concern. In terms of pacing, and plot points, I keep changing my mind -- does she get her powers earlier (say at the midpoint of the film) and then he dies later at the end of act 2. Or do the events happen roughly concurrently? Or does she not gain her powers until after he dies. Should he die as early as the midpoint of the film -- is that enough screentime for him to leave a sufficient legacy? OTOH, should he even die at all, if he's Thanos' foe, given what's coming? (I think he should, just considering all the angles).

    Sequel-wise (if we ever even get that far), I figure it starts out with her talking to a psychiatrist (Karla Sofen), and trying to figure out why it is she does what she does. Guess who she would fight in the finale.

    I don't expect to see Carol in GotG, since it mostly doesn't happen on Earth. But with Ronan and the Kree in it, we may get at least an oblique reference to Mar-Vell. It's also possible (but quite unlikely) that Carol could be referenced in Age of Ultron, or (more likely) show up in the Jessica Jones series.

    EDIT: While I'm warming to the idea of seeing her show up early, the main problem would be that it takes the casting decision for the lead actress out of the hands of the film's would-be director (unless they decide on a director early on, and collaborate with them). That's not an insurmountable problem, especially in a shared universe -- Whedon didn't get to cast the Avengers (except Hulk, obv.) and Black didn't get to cast RDJ & pals -- but it is at least a complication. At least in those cases, the characters had already been well established as leads.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  23. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

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    I think there should be at least another 2 leading ladies in a Captain/Ms Marvel film. Maybe Jessica Drew and Agent Brant?
     
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  24. DrCosmic

    DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    Interesting, and deep. I think the arc, of going from "Let me show my dad" to "I have shown my dad" to "I do this for myself" is definitely big for the character. I personally would stretch it out over two movies rather than put it all into one. The latter, when it becomes just for her is more empowering and more inspiring, no doubt, but to highlight her as being free you have to show her as being tethered in a number of ways, you have to show her failing, and I don't think that goes well with a film where she has limited time to show how unfailingly awesome she is next to Mar-Vell. Could work with a bangin screenwriter though.

    The way it is in my head right now, she actually gets her powers near the beginning, the same time most heroes usually get their powers, the same time Mar-Vell's heritage is revealed to her. Over the course of the film she makes use of Kree-only technology like a blaster or a ship and then near the end she gets Mar-Vell's stuff.

    I wouldn't kill him until the last third of the movie. I think his 'comeback' from the really bad stuff at the end of act 2 should be his death scene, basically. The setup for the third act is his death, basically. It doesn't get much darker or more impossible than the hero dying... the surprise, he doesn't come back. Cue epicness.

    I don't think, in this universe, Mar-Vell can be Thanos' big time enemy, simply because of when the film will be released. If it is in Phase 3 by some miracle, then having Thanos looming in the background, or being the one whom Mar-Vell received his dyingness from makes a TON of sense. Perhaps Mar-Vell carries some key to Thanos' defeat. But if not by Phase 3, that angle probably has to be let go.

    Brilliant! The having a therapist angle goes really well with her learning to do this just for herself. But you're right, that's far flung future stuff.

    This would be a challenge, total agreement. I think it would be important in that context to, when she is featured, make the stories great, so making a movie of her can be viewed as continuing a great story, like taking over a franchise, except with freedom to determine so much, rather than being saddled with a half finished project that you can't start over.

    I think Abigail Brant and Jessica Drew would be pretty awesome to include. They work pretty awesome as her close friends. I don't know how they'd fit in the story... Brant works as a SHIELD Agent, or SWORD Agent.

    Hey, what if SWORD is SHIELD's offworld strike force. Makes the name make a lot more sense and since MCU SHIELD does 616 SWORD's job, SWORD needs another job, so what if SWORD is what catches up to/wormholes to the Kree ship to get/free/catch the Kree? So not a separate organization, but a task force within SHIELD made for offense, hence SWORD!

    Jessica Drew is a harder fit. Not sure how to work that in.
     
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  25. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

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    Jessica Drew is both a SHIELD and SWORD agent. She'd fit in perfectly.
     
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