The Last Jedi Why are some fans disappointed? - Part 1

[MaceB]

A Jedi uses his powers for knowledge and defense, never for attack. Yoda and Obi Wan thought the only way to defeat Vader, was by killing him. They were part of the old guard.

But Luke threw down his lightsaber. He decided to commit the ultimate act of love instead, and sacrifice himself. Luke broke the code that perplexed the Jedi order.. that defeated Anakin.... fighting the with the Sith would never balance the force, but converting them back through love would. Like anakin said and originally wanted when he argued that selfless love was central to a jedi’s Life.

Up until Luke, the Jedi were taught to shut themselves off from their feelings. Luke said ‘no - I can do both - I can be a Jedi and love. Selfless love is the key.”

So I’d say the nonviolence thing was firmly in place by the end of ROTJ. That was the victory. Luke already brought balance to the force and changed the Jedi order. TLJ basically undoes all that.

 

[Lilbaz]

So Luke after trying to kill his nephew in his sleep, getting bench slapped in the process. Then moves to live on a rock drinking green milk from a cow monster, invents a new form of jedi?

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

Mark Hamill had an interview the other day where he said that he got in trouble for speaking his mind about the Star Wars films so clearly there was some truth to people saying that they told him to shut up.

He's now taken a vow of silence about upcoming Star Wars movies, but he did voice an opinion about TLJ again that was new, which further shows how he wasn't a big fan of how they were dealing with the things that remain from the original trilogy:

"They had me walking by Threepio, not even acknowledging him," he explains. "I said: ‘I can’t do that!’ [Rian Johnson] said: ‘okay, go over and do whatever’. So I went over, and I did whatever. They say in the script ‘forget the past, kill it if you have to’, and they’re doing a pretty good job."

Source: Mark Hamill Again Expresses Disappointment With Current STAR WARS Trilogy Due To Them Forgetting The Past

It doesn't mean that any opinion on the film is right or wrong depending on what Hamill thinks, but it does shed a little more light on something that some tried to shoot down in discussions last year. It is pretty remarkable seeing an actor talk about negative things like this. Especially after also saying that it got him in trouble before.

 

[Lilbaz]

Mark Hamill had an interview the other day where he said that he got in trouble for speaking his mind about the Star Wars films so clearly there was some truth to people saying that they told him to shut up.

He's now taken a vow of silence about upcoming Star Wars movies, but he did voice an opinion about TLJ again that was new, which further shows how he wasn't a big fan of how they were dealing with the things that remain from the original trilogy:

"They had me walking by Threepio, not even acknowledging him," he explains. "I said: ‘I can’t do that!’ [Rian Johnson] said: ‘okay, go over and do whatever’. So I went over, and I did whatever. They say in the script ‘forget the past, kill it if you have to’, and they’re doing a pretty good job."

Source: Mark Hamill Again Expresses Disappointment With Current STAR WARS Trilogy Due To Them Forgetting The Past

It doesn't mean that any opinion on the film is right or wrong depending on what Hamill thinks, but it does shed a little more light on something that some tried to shoot down in discussions last year. It is pretty remarkable seeing an actor talk about negative things like this. Especially after also saying that it got him in trouble before.

Imagine what he'll say after ep ix is out.

 

[MaceB]

I think Mark understood how important Luke was. He's ruminated on it for a year. And if they had just treated Luke with a little more deference, like Mark knew the fans would want... then TLJ could have been much more serviceable.

I'm not gonna lie... there were some great parts in TLJ... and some so-so parts. The one part that's unforgivable is how they treated Luke, unfortunately. Mark knew that. They should have listened to him.

But they gave complete control to Johnson. That was their biggest mistake. It's clear that Johnson is a good director. If only someone had been there to guide his script, it would have been great.

I haven't heard anything about his new trilogy. Is it still going on? I would think that the reaction to TLJ must have given folks a bit of pause on that decision.

For fans too. I don't know if fans want Johnson back in any capacity at this point.

 

[Lilbaz]

I think Mark understood how important Luke was. He's ruminated on it for a year. And if they had just treated Luke with a little more deference, like Mark knew the fans would want... then TLJ could have been much more serviceable.

I'm not gonna lie... there were some great parts in TLJ... and some so-so parts. The one part that's unforgivable is how they treated Luke, unfortunately. Mark knew that. They should have listened to him.

But they gave complete control to Johnson. That was their biggest mistake. It's clear that Johnson is a good director. If only someone had been there to guide his script, it would have been great.

I haven't heard anything about his new trilogy. Is it still going on? I would think that the reaction to TLJ must have given folks a bit of pause on that decision.

For fans too. I don't know if fans want Johnson back in any capacity at this point.

Let's not put this all on Johnson. Han was treated badly as well. All the growth he had in the ot was thrown away. He was back to where he started a smuggler.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

A Jedi uses his powers for knowledge and defense, never for attack. Yoda and Obi Wan thought the only way to defeat Vader, was by killing him. They were part of the old guard.

But Luke threw down his lightsaber. He decided to commit the ultimate act of love instead, and sacrifice himself. Luke broke the code that perplexed the Jedi order.. that defeated Anakin.... fighting the with the Sith would never balance the force, but converting them back through love would. Like anakin said and originally wanted when he argued that selfless love was central to a jedi’s Life.

Up until Luke, the Jedi were taught to shut themselves off from their feelings. Luke said ‘no - I can do both - I can be a Jedi and love. Selfless love is the key.”

So I’d say the nonviolence thing was firmly in place by the end of ROTJ. That was the victory. Luke already brought balance to the force and changed the Jedi order. TLJ basically undoes all that.

But nonviolence wasn't the key to defeating Palpatine. Throwing him down a reactor shaft was.

 

[dhandler01]

But it was Luke being non violent that finished the turn of his father who threw him down said shaft.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

So violence is okay as long as you inspire others to do it on your behalf?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Mark Hamill had an interview the other day where he said that he got in trouble for speaking his mind about the Star Wars films so clearly there was some truth to people saying that they told him to shut up.

He's now taken a vow of silence about upcoming Star Wars movies, but he did voice an opinion about TLJ again that was new, which further shows how he wasn't a big fan of how they were dealing with the things that remain from the original trilogy:

"They had me walking by Threepio, not even acknowledging him," he explains. "I said: ‘I can’t do that!’ [Rian Johnson] said: ‘okay, go over and do whatever’. So I went over, and I did whatever. They say in the script ‘forget the past, kill it if you have to’, and they’re doing a pretty good job."

Source: Mark Hamill Again Expresses Disappointment With Current STAR WARS Trilogy Due To Them Forgetting The Past

It doesn't mean that any opinion on the film is right or wrong depending on what Hamill thinks, but it does shed a little more light on something that some tried to shoot down in discussions last year. It is pretty remarkable seeing an actor talk about negative things like this. Especially after also saying that it got him in trouble before.

So Luke's wink to Threepio was actually Hamills idea? I have done my best to not dislike Johnson after not liking TLJ and disliking it more as time goes on. But the more I hear about stuff he had to told that should have been damn obvious, the more I find him arrogant.

 

[Lilbaz]

But it was Luke being non violent that finished the turn of his father who threw him down said shaft.

Not being non violent. Luke was rejecting the darkside (anger) and was willing to sacrifice himself because he believed there was goodness in his father. Because he never gave up on hope. That is until he was willing to kill his nephew in his sleep because he feared he might turn to the darkside.

Those are two very different characters. And many feel that it was a betrayal of luke that he was shown this way.

 

[dhandler01]

Yes I am one of them.

 

[godisawesome]

Let's not put this all on Johnson. Han was treated badly as well. All the growth he had in the ot was thrown away. He was back to where he started a smuggler.

It’s interestingto note the different ways that TFA and TLJ derailed their OT3 stars, and how endemic they are of the very different creative philosophies between TFA and TLJ.

Han was pulled back into being a smuggler with money problems because that’s “Classic Han” in the minds of Abrams and Kasdan, and they wanted to use “Classic Star Wars” as much as possible.

Luke, in contrast was thrown into a massive subversion-focused storyline seeking to avoid and even at times criticize the audience’s perceptions of Luke and what he would become after ROTJ.

Having said that... I’d say Han’s regression is more believable and much less distracting: losing your son to the dark side seems a plausible reason to drown your sorrows in mischief and ne’er-do-well antics, *and* he’s not regressed to drug running but instead become an exotic animal smuggler with a much larger ship, and he’s not in debt to one crime syndicate but two. At least he’s a higher class of criminal. And not to mention, as soon as he gets back into the Falcon and agrees to deliver them to the Resistance free of charge, he’s effectively where he would be post-ROTJ, especially once he and Leia reconcile and their estrangement is coached in more amicable terms.

It’s *still* regression... but it’s on a much smaller scale compared to the stuff happening with Luke in TLJ, which relies on an exaggerated version of his ESB flaws without addressing his ROTJ growth, doesn’t explain why he’d be peeking into his nephew’s brain in the first place, and seems to portray him as more selfish and self-centered than he was in the OT by having him ignore the billions of deaths occurring in the Galaxy, downplaying the tragedy of his other students being murdered because of the film’s obsession with Kylo Ren, and because some of the film’s “we have to shock the audience by being subversive!” decisions make him seem more focused on his man-pain rather than the actual tragedy that occurred (throwing the saber over his shoulder and acting grumpy sends a very different message than, say, silently handing the saber back to Rey with a shaker hand and being more somber and regretful.)

 

[Travesty]

Fake Plinkett did a ridiculously long review of this. It's over 3hrs. It's on hackfraudmedia on YT. Way more in-depth than the first Plinkett review.