Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 1

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Green Lantern is an unwatchable mess of a movie. Even most of us dyed-in-the-wool GL fans can admit that. There isn't one damn thing that the people behind the camera got right about the character. Hal Jordan didn't have to be unlikable in the film, but the writers made him into an arrogant ***hole with no redeeming qualities. They had him sabotage Ferris Aircraft's drone demonstration, thus crippling the company, for no other reason than, "Whoo! I'm a hotshot pilot!" Worse yet, they made him into a coward when the defining characteristic of a Green Lantern is an unshakable will and utter lack of fear. The very worst moment in that awful film was when Hal gave up when challenged by Kilowog and fled back to Earth in disgrace. It was painfully obvious that no one associated with that movie got Green Lantern at all, beyond the "magic" ring and funky suit.


There's really no way to polish that turd. GL was badly written and directed. The actors would have been fine if they had been given good material to work with. The visual effects were shoddy, especially for Parallax who was an even uglier **** cloud than Galactus in the second FF movie. But the very worst part about that cluster**** is that it ended all chances of a another GL film being made for at least a couple of decades.

DC and WB are both to blame for GL. Warner for hiring the wrong people(Cambell was completely wrong for the project) and DC for making the wrong creative choices for the script. Johns is so enamored by his Green Lantern corp saga that he doesn't realize a GL corp is a terrible way to introduce a character. The film needed to establish the character first. Showing a hundred other Green Lanterns de-uniques the character especially for an introduction film.

Did the first Iron Man have a hundred guys in Iron man suits? Did Captain America have a hundred super soldiers? Did Thor have a hundred thunder gods all over the film?

Going the Kyle Rayner route would have been the smarter choice. The ONLY Green Lanern...The LAST Green Lantern...is a LOT more interesting to casual movie goers than having the guy be just another space cop(among hundreds of other space cops). If you're going to introduce the Green Lantern Corp at least wait until the 2nd film to do so. The hero/protagonist HAS to be established first.
 
DC and WB are both to blame for GL. Warner for hiring the wrong people(Cambell was completely wrong for the project) and DC for making the wrong creative choices for the script. Johns is so enamored by his Green Lantern corp saga that he doesn't realize a GL corp is a terrible way to introduce a character. The film needed to establish the character first. Showing a hundred other Green Lanterns de-uniques the character especially for an introduction film.

Did the first Iron Man have a hundred guys in Iron man suits? Did Captain America have a hundred super soldiers? Did Thor have a hundred thunder gods all over the film?

Going the Kyle Rayner route would have been the smarter choice. The ONLY Green Lanern...The LAST Green Lantern...is a LOT more interesting to casual movie goers than having the guy be just another space cop(among hundreds of other space cops). If you're going to introduce the Green Lantern Corp at least wait until the 2nd film to do so. The hero/protagonist HAS to be established first.
The big difference between Hal and the others that you listed is that Hal is simply one member of the Green Lantern CORPS. The GLC existed in the comics LONG before Geoff Johns came along, Hal has NEVER been unique in that regard. Also, the vast majority of complaints that I've heard are that we didn't see ENOUGH of the Corps or spend enough time on Oa. You have this cool looking alien world with these interesting an diverse creatures, and GL is essentially a space cop, yet you spend most of the movie on Earth, that was their mistake. Your complaint appears to be the OPPOSITE of most people, they wanted MORE Oa and more GLC, not less.
 
The big difference between Hal and the others that you listed is that Hal is simply one member of the Green Lantern CORPS.

The original Green Lantern stories didn't introduce another Lantern until issue 6. At least 200 pages of story allowing the protagonist to be established.

And the "multiple copy syndrome" is a staple of Silver Age DC. Superman, Supergirl, Kandor, etc. Batman, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman. Wonder Woman, Wonder Girl. And so on. I don't mind these large family structures in the comics but they don't work very well cinematically. Keeping the hero unique is important.

The GLC existed in the comics LONG before Geoff Johns came along, Hal has NEVER been unique in that regard.

I know this. But post-crisis DC originally made it a point to get rid of these large family structures. Every Kyptonian besides Superman was killed off or wiped out of continuity. The Green Lantern corp was decimated leaving only Kyle. Johns brought back Hal and the GLC. I have no problem with this since comics pander to a niche audience anyway so they can do whatever they want in the books.

Also, the vast majority of complaints that I've heard are that we didn't see ENOUGH of the Corps or spend enough time on Oa. You have this cool looking alien world with these interesting an diverse creatures, and GL is essentially a space cop, yet you spend most of the movie on Earth, that was their mistake.

And whose complaints are these? Comic book fans? In any case, more OA scenes would not have fixed the film. The OA scenes did nothing but make Hal look like an incompetent boob. The people I saw the film with came away from those scenes thinking Sinestro was a hell of a lot cooler than Hal. They said they should have just made the movie about him instead! That's a clear sign that you failed to develop the protagonist when the audience thinks the future villain is much more interesting than the hero.

They already started on the wrong story elements by going with the test pilot background(NEVER been a fan of the this origin - an artist like Kyle makes a lot more sense for someone with a power ring). Anyway, making Hal an annoying *****e(trying to imitate Tony Stark I guess) was the wrong way to go. The angsty/horny/screw-up Hal from Emerald Dawn was never a very compelling or likeable character anyway. Don't know why they went that route as the foundation for the DCU.

And Hector Hammond as the villain? Who the hell thought THIS would be a good idea in movie form? Appropriate for 30/40 yr old comic book fans maybe(John's core fanbase). It's decisions like these that have me convinced that Johns has NO idea how to write for a movie audience. He's a fanboy that writes for fanboys(I'm one of his fans btw). He should never have been placed in charge of DC Creative.

Your complaint appears to be the OPPOSITE of most people, they wanted MORE Oa and more GLC, not less.

No. My complaint is they should have developed the CHARACTER first. Keep him grounded on Earth and explore how to use his powers. Have him overcome the typical introductory villain as well. The Green Lantern Corps is a nice concept but it's a bit overkill for newcomers. Save that for a sequel AFTER you've developed the protagonist and his cast of characters on Earth. Have the audience LIKE him first before introducing more characters with the same powers. The Sinestro example being the MAIN reason. My little brother's friend asked me if Sinestro had his own comic after watching the movie...How wrong is that? Congrats WB/DC, you made the villain cooler than the hero. Dark Knight did the same thing. Everybody was talking about Ledger's Joker after the movie came out. Difference here is that Dark Knight had the added benefit of Batman already being well established in Batman Begins. Green Lantern failed to do this and started introducing characters much more interesting than Hal from the get-go.
 
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No, you can develop him while still going to Oa. Your argument that the GLC is too much for newcomers falls apart when one of the complaints from audience members is that we didn't see them ENOUGH. We see enough Earth-based heroes, why the hell would you want GL to be just another one of those, the whole appeal of the character is that he's unique and allows for exploring cool new worlds and species. Sorry, but your complaints don't hold up, people wanted MORE of Sinestro, MORE of Kilowag, MORE of the GLC, not another generic Earth story.
 
No, you can develop him while still going to Oa.

The Green Lantern comics never had another Lantern appear until six issue into the original stories. Comic book pros(back when the writers were actually professionals instead of fanboys like Geoff Johns) know more about how to tell a superhero story than a fan on the internet, me thinks.

Your argument that the GLC is too much for newcomers falls apart when one of the complaints from audience members is that we didn't see them ENOUGH.

Your argument is based on the complaints of comic book fans. Comic book fans make up an irrelevant minority of the movie-going audience.

We see enough Earth-based heroes, why the hell would you want GL to be just another one of those, the whole appeal of the character is that he's unique and allows for exploring cool new worlds and species.

So Hal Jordan isn't an interesting enough character to stand on his own without the Green Lantern Corp? If that's the case, he NEVER deserved a superhero movie in the first place. Your logic is terrible. ANY story can work if the writer is good enough. There's no such thing as bad characters...only bad writers.

The Kyle Rayner era of Green Lantern comics were successful enough and they NEVER featured any other Green Lanterns for the vast majority of that run. Using your logic, you're basically admitting that Hal Jordan isn't as interesting as Kyle(which I disagree with).

I'd like to point out that I like the Green Lantern Corp. I WOULD like to see them in a Green Lantern film. BUT, they should have been saved for the sequel.

Sorry, but your complaints don't hold up, people wanted MORE of Sinestro, MORE of Kilowag, MORE of the GLC,

The audience thought Sinestro was COOLER than the protagonist. The audiences didn't give a damn about the hero which tells us that the filmmakers didn't establish him enough.

not another generic Earth story.

Like I said, no story is generic unless the writers make them that way. There's nothing boring about someone receiving a power ring and using it to fight crime. Another bonus of going with the Earth-based origin story is the lower budget. A lower budget means the studio won't have ridiculous expectations and would be quicker to greenlight a sequel.

I'd also like to add that Geoff Johns/DC Creative made a horrible decision to go with the test pilot origin story. An airforce base in the middle of the desert isn't a very compelling location so it's not surprising that moviegoers were bored . Make Hal an artist in a big city(NY, LA, etc) and everything seems a lot more interesting. Just another case of Geoff Johns' silver-age nostalgia getting in the way of rational decisions.
 
I somewhat disagree, in that I think you totally could do a Corp focused origin story, with it being about Hal learning on his first day on the job, so to speak. However, the important thing is for the writers to *choose*. Either set the origin story primarily on Earth, or primarily in space. Don't dither, like the writers did for the movie we got.
 
Green Lantern was a failed attempt at launching a DC universe on film like Marvel but as a GL fan I really didn't think it was THAT bad. I still like it. And hey I've seen Generation X, Elektra, Roger Corman's Fantastic Four, Catwoman, Supergirl, and Steel so I know how low these kinds of films can sink.
 
Green Lantern was a failed attempt at launching a DC universe on film like Marvel but as a GL fan I really didn't think it was THAT bad. I still like it. And hey I've seen Generation X, Elektra, Roger Corman's Fantastic Four, Catwoman, Supergirl, and Steel so I know how low these kinds of films can sink.
The difference is that it was obvious that those other movies were going to suck from very early on. GL is so frustrating because it had SO MUCH potential (great source material, a talented cast, the guy who resurrected Zorro and Bond TWICE, etc).
 
The difference is that it was obvious that those other movies were going to suck from very early on. GL is so frustrating because it had SO MUCH potential (great source material, a talented cast, the guy who resurrected Zorro and Bond TWICE, etc).

I will never understand WB decision to choose Martin Campbell as the director for Green Lantern.
 
DocHolliday,

I think your analysis fails because you're arguing that there is one problem with Green Lantern greater than all the others. I'd say the movie is such a comprehensive failure that ne cannot find the worst problem with the movie.
 
I will never understand WB decision to choose Martin Campbell as the director for Green Lantern.
My guess is that they looked at his history, or more likely one part of his history, and thought that he'd be a good choice. Campbell is a talented director who resurrected and updating two iconic characters. The Mask of Zorro updated that character and made him accessible to a new generation, and was a really good movie. He also resurrected the Bond franchise TWICE, first with Goldeneye and then with Casino Royale. They probably thought that he could jumpstart GL in a similar way. As it turned out, his style didn't fit a giant cosmic character like GL and he clearly didn't understand the material. It was a mistake, but I can understand WB's thinking.
 
DocHolliday,

I think your analysis fails because you're arguing that there is one problem with Green Lantern greater than all the others.

I never once said that. Go back to my earlier posts and you'll see that I placed the blame on both DC AND WB. The only reason I'm stressing the complaints on the story side of things is because everybody on these boards is quick to blame WB when Geoff Johns and the morons at DC Creative were the ones that greenlighted that stupid script. They also gave their approval for that insipid cast. WB's errors were on the production side of things(Martin Campbell, effects studio, horrid editing, etc).
 
My guess is that they looked at his history, or more likely one part of his history, and thought that he'd be a good choice. Campbell is a talented director who resurrected and updating two iconic characters. The Mask of Zorro updated that character and made him accessible to a new generation, and was a really good movie. He also resurrected the Bond franchise TWICE, first with Goldeneye and then with Casino Royale. They probably thought that he could jumpstart GL in a similar way. As it turned out, his style didn't fit a giant cosmic character like GL and he clearly didn't understand the material. It was a mistake, but I can understand WB's thinking.

Campbell was a very solid choice after his work on Zorro and Bond.

While he may not have had the experience with CGI or scale needed to make GREEN LANTERN visually work the best it could, that was also hardly the film's major weak point.

What in GREEN LANTERN suggests that he somehow didn't understand the material itself?
 
He spend FAR too much time on Earth, barely used the GLC at all, Hal's characterization was problematic, you had two villains that don't really go together and neither of them got enough characterization of screentime, etc.
 
In the production they would show Campbell artwork and idead for the movie, and his reaction was mostly "that's good, i guess", he didn't really get much to do because he wasn't interested in what he was doing.
 
He spend FAR too much time on Earth, barely used the GLC at all, Hal's characterization was problematic, you had two villains that don't really go together and neither of them got enough characterization of screentime, etc.

That doesn't have a whole lot to do with Campbell. He didn't write the script. He was hired to shoot it, based on a studio mandated story and script.
 
WB should put me in charge.

**** the Justice League and all its lame-o characters. This is where it's at:

Zoo_Crew.jpg
 
I somewhat disagree, in that I think you totally could do a Corp focused origin story, with it being about Hal learning on his first day on the job, so to speak. However, the important thing is for the writers to *choose*. Either set the origin story primarily on Earth, or primarily in space. Don't dither, like the writers did for the movie we got.

Exactly ! If they had set it on earth first, they could went with a First Flight meets JL New Frontier mix. Where he is the only hero and has to figure on his own how the power ring works, while dealing with Hammond or the Black Hand or something. Then at the very end have Sinestro, Kilowagg, and Tomar Re come to earth looking for Abin Sur and finding Hal instead with his ring going into GL2
 
Exactly ! If they had set it on earth first, they could went with a First Flight meets JL New Frontier mix. Where he is the only hero and has to figure on his own how the power ring works, while dealing with Hammond or the Black Hand or something. Then at the very end have Sinestro, Kilowagg, and Tomar Re come to earth looking for Abin Sur and finding Hal instead with his ring going into GL2
Except that sounds similar to every single other origin story that's ever been put to film. Having the story set in space, GL is a SPACE cop after all, would not only be different from what's come before, but take advantage of the unique worlds and creatures, which is one of the franchise's main appeal. Also, people complained about there not being enough Sinestro, Kilowagg, and Tomar Re in the first film, and you're suggesting that have even SMALLER roles, Sinestro was the best part of the movie.
 
Guys, the reason why Green Lantern the movie disappointed at the box office was partly because there was too much shown on Earth. it needed to be filmed more like Star Wars or Star Trek where there are a lot of space battlesin very few scenes shown planetside. Green Lantern first flight is not a good example of how to make a major motion picture.if you compare that to the other animated DTV's that DC put out first flight is closer to the bottom of the list then the top.
 
I'll be honest, the movie had a perfect balance between space and Earth but the dialogue and being one of a million space cops.............it doesn't make him unique, which is one of DC's biggest problems IMHO. Same thing with Flash, there's just to many of them. Who are the characters in DC that have excelled? Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman and there is not 2 or 3 of them. I think for a GL first film, they should have made him unique and introduced the corp later.
 
I'll be honest, the movie had a perfect balance between space and Earth but the dialogue and being one of a million space cops.............it doesn't make him unique, which is one of DC's biggest problems IMHO. Same thing with Flash, there's just to many of them. Who are the characters in DC that have excelled? Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman and there is not 2 or 3 of them. I think for a GL first film, they should have made him unique and introduced the corp later.

Yes. That's it , the balance of the film felt off. You start off in space with Parallex escaping and Abin which was very cool. Then we slow down and go back to earth. Then when we finally see a spark of character development from Hal we get sent to space again for some very stuff with the training. Then, right when it gets good we're sent to earth again! Too much back and forth for me. They should have kept it on earth first and let him figure it out on his own OR go full speed ahead in space and don't look back.
 
I'll be honest, the movie had a perfect balance between space and Earth but the dialogue and being one of a million space cops......unique...it doesn't make him unique, which is one of DC's biggest problems IMHO. Same thing with Flash, there's just to many of them. Who are the characters in DC that have excelled? Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman and there is not 2 or 3 of them. I think for a GL first film, they should have made him unique and introduced the corp later.

What law says that a character has to be unique? Batman is not unique, but yet he sells just as well as the rest of them. There are litterally thousands of heroes villains out there. Being one of thousands of Green Lanterns doesn't make the movie fail. With that kind of rationale, both Star Wars and Star Trek should have failed because they were not unique to either. Theway the wrote that story and the lack of brand awareness also contributed to unsuccessful run Green Lantern had at the box office. Had there been more space action like they did in Star Wars and Star Trek, it would have been a better movie.
 
There being thousands of Green Lanterns is half what makes the concept of Green Lantern unique in itself as a superhero concept.
 
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