Superman Returns Why Don't Some Superman Fans Like Superman Returns?

Well I just don't see how that film cost 200 million. Honestly I don't. Look at any other movie that costs less and you see more effects and money on the screen than SR. I just don't get how Transformers, a movie filled with Giant CGI robots all over the place, costs less than SR. And not just less. A LOT LESS. Say what you will about Bay, but he does know how to keep a film on budget.
 
Well I just don't see how that film cost 200 million. Honestly I don't. Look at any other movie that costs less and you see more effects and money on the screen than SR. I just don't get how Transformers, a movie filled with Giant CGI robots all over the place, costs less than SR. And not just less. A LOT LESS. Say what you will about Bay, but he does know how to keep a film on budget.

I agree.
 
Well I just don't see how that film cost 200 million. Honestly I don't. Look at any other movie that costs less and you see more effects and money on the screen than SR. I just don't get how Transformers, a movie filled with Giant CGI robots all over the place, costs less than SR. And not just less. A LOT LESS. Say what you will about Bay, but he does know how to keep a film on budget.

Does he know how to make an actual good movie though?
 
Oh I saw Armaggedon and The Island. While they're entertaining, they're nothing extraordinary. More like the average Hollywood action movie you use to spend a boring afternoon and that get confused between its many replicas out there in the market.
 
Oh I saw Armaggedon and The Island. While they're entertaining, they're nothing extraordinary. More like the average Hollywood action movie you use to spend a boring afternoon and that get confused between its many replicas out there in the market.

But you asked if he could make a "good movie"....in my opinion those are good movies (I know not everyone would agree that they're good...but everyone doesn't agree that they are bad either).
 
Yes, it seems it's useless to expect that people agree about something in order to find that something "officially" good or bad.
 
It'snot like he's Ed Wood or something.
 
I think Bay has the capability in him to make a really good movie if he ever gets past being too flashy with his camera work. And I really wish he didn't do that one Micheal Bay camera movie of the low dolly shot while a character gets up in slow motion.
 
But of course not. Ed Wood was remarkably bad. Bay is not bad, just average.
 
I think Bay has the capability in him to make a really good movie if he ever gets past being too flashy with his camera work. And I really wish he didn't do that one Micheal Bay camera movie of the low dolly shot while a character gets up in slow motion.
A lot of the newer dirsctor's "artsy" shots are annoying to me...especially the jittery film, in and out of focus, useless multiple split second cuts that they tend to do (example- Man on Fire went from great to good in my rating because it was filmed annoyingly...it gave my wife a headache).
But of course not. Ed Wood was remarkably bad. Bay is not bad, just average.

While I would prefer to be great...I'd rather be average than bad.:woot:
 
A lot of the newer dirsctor's "artsy" shots are annoying to me...especially the jittery film, in and out of focus, useless multiple split second cuts that they tend to do (example- Man on Fire went from great to good in my rating because it was filmed annoyingly...it gave my wife a headache).
Yeah. It is a stupid phenomenon that happened right about the time that the ability to color correct digitally came about. Also, when newer camera rigs come out some guys just want to take the thing to the extreme and see the bigest thing it can do instead of having the camera moves service the story. And some directors let their DP decide how to move the camera, and sometimes when you let those guys loose they are just doing stuff to test new gear, or to do shots they have always wanted to do instead of telling the story. The really great directors are the guys telling the DP's what they want, and not the other way around. I am all for great cameras moves, but sometimes a really great standalone camera move can really take you out of the scene. It looks good when you see it by yourself, but bad when you edit it in to a scene.

The guy I think who really knows how to move a camera, and he just has it, is John McTierrnan (Die Hard 1 and 3). If you watch Die Hard 3, it really looks like it is impromptu and documentary when it is all planned, and it does nothing but serve the story. The camera only moves from one place to another to get to the point of the story. In fact, I was listening to his commentary on DH3, and he talked about it for the first time. He said that most directors would just make a cut from one point to the other. But he wanted to do as little cuts as he could, so he figured the best way to show the audience what he wanted to show was just move the camera from point A to point B, and that way the audience has no choice but to be focused on what he wanted them to be. And, what is most important, it isn't done annoyingly as NYPD Blue is. That is some of the most annoying camera work I have ever seen.

Spielberg is also another guy who just knows how to move a camera (although I have never liked anything he has done with Janusz Kaminski (His standard DP now). Any film I see with that artsy fartsy for no point B/S color timing or editing I don't even watch anymore. It is too distracting, and the Simpson's Star wipe phenomenon.

And that stupid machine gun editing. Honeslty I thought that would have been gone now. Started with MTV, and there was a point to it in a music video. You only have 2 or three minutes to tell a story, and you are doing the edits a lot of time to the tempo of the song. If you look at McTiernan's stuff, even when he has fast edits, he moves the camera to show you what is important in the story at that time and it works as you are getting all the info, even if it is being machine gunned. But some directors shoot a lotof coverage as they don't have a focus on the scene of what is important, and just figure they will find that in the editing room. Then when they get there, they just start editing everything they shot together hoping it will add dramatics. Good directors have a plan and know what they want to focus on on any given moment. That is why directors like Spielberg and McTiernan come in on time and ususally under budget. They aren't experimenting while shooting. They know what they want, and they know what to focus on. Usually stuff shot with directors that are like that edit together easier as you can just see what they are doing in the footage.

I have a friend who shot something, and he didn't storyboard it. Well, he did, but only half assed. It just wasn't coming together in the edit. So I asked him if I could see his storyboards and I saw what he was going for, but he deviated from it a lot on set. The storyboard showed focus on what he wanted you to see, but he got on set and started shooting other things that looked cool as a seperate cut, but totally lost all of the focus that he wanted. So I told him to leave for two hours so I could go through all the raw footage and then did an edit based on the storyboards only. Since he shot a lot of extraneous stuff, I had to use stuff hat he shot for later in the scene earlier an vice versa, and when he came back he was shocked. It was something I had been trying to hammer into him for a while and he didn't get it till just then. The other thing I remember doing now is that, during the shoot, he really went off at one point with the actor doing something, and a stupid camera move. I just looked at the scene storyboarded, and it was just supposed to be the actor waking up and looking out the window and realizing it is morning and the sun was hot, and all I did was look for a shot when he was setting up his tripod the wrong way shooting out the window. I took a few seconds when no one was walking in front of the camera and took out a bunch of stuff and just edited in that shot as a P.O.V. So it went from a mess with machine gun editing to only a few edits and it worked.

The only film recently that I have seen that have all of these things (run and gun and wacky color timing) but it really worked was Smokin Aces as the director knew what the hell he was doing, and even though he was doing the macine gun editing, he shot all of those little shots with focus on the story, and so the shotgun editing served the story.
 
you are just like your avatar.
the most pathetic thing to do is bashing others to spin away from the subject.

And I'm getting tired of all of you.....you hate SR, fine....he likes SR, fine.....quit attacking each other and being pains in the butt to those who want decent conversations.
 
Was I attacking someone?

Was I the one bashing someone/something?

Really.
 
Was I attacking someone?

Was I the one bashing someone/something?

Really.
no, no. we didn't bash each other.
i was just saying that you were trying to "put down" bay in order to "put up" singer.

c. lee got me wrong.

btw, bay and singer are in different status...
how many movies has singer made?
 
no, no. we didn't bash each other.
i was just saying that you were trying to "put down" bay in order to "put up" singer.

c. lee got me wrong.

btw, bay and singer are in different status...
how many movies has singer made?

They've both made 7 as far as I can tell.
 
I can tell you after seeing Transformers, and seeing how much effects work was on the screen from a 150 million dollar budget, as opposed to how little effects showed up in SR with almost 100 million more to produce, I really don't see where the money went to now.
 
some of that much better flying effects in Underdog. Hell, he even looks more super in that one shot than Singerman.
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I am going to see if I can find the preview online that was in that AICN post. And here it is. Even some effecst sequences are the same as SR, and look lightyears better:
http://movies.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=movies&cdn=entertainment&tm=17&f=00&su=p532.0.400.ip_p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.totaleclips.com/Player/Bounce.aspx%3Feclipid%3Db10151%26bitrateid%3D337%26vendorid%3D600

This just makes SR look even worse when a movie about a flying dog looks better effects wise. It even has more action from the look of it, and the star of the movie looks to have a hell of a lot more dialog.

Hell, even the first trailer goofs on SR, and even uses that staring up crowd shot
http://movies.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=movies&cdn=entertainment&tm=5&f=00&su=p532.0.400.ip_p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.totaleclips.com/Player/Bounce.aspx%3Feclipid%3De31504%26bitrateid%3D337%26vendorid%3D600
 
it seems like the underdog is having a better cgi effects than sr.
 
God I love this at that Superman Returns blog. This shows a small sampling of real die hard Superman fans not really liking to downright hating the movie:

Despite rumors to the contrary we havent left the planet unannounced to find our previously destroyed home world. We've been away doing the summertime vacation and work type stuff for the past few weeks, and with nothing that's "on the record" really coming out of the studio other than the proposed Teen Titans film,, news has been a bit slow. Although the rumors still seem to be flying fast and furious.

Since I just happened to be in Illinois this week for work, I had a chance to attend the Superman Celebration in Metropolis, IL this weekend for the first time ever. It was basically like a huge comic convention that was just dedicated to Superman, but pretty cool nonetheless. If you're a Superman fan I'd recommend getting there at least once in your life. They had Superman themed everything there: costume pageants, car shows, auctions, art shows, dog shows, etc. They also had some celebrity guests there from the various incarnations of Superman in TV, comics, and movies. I actually got to meet the original Lois Lane, Noel Neill and Supergirl, Helen Slater, which was cool. Erica Durance from Smallville was supposed to be there, but was apparently very sick and unable to attend.

The one thing that stood out to me during the time I was there was the lack oi anything really having to do with Singerman there. I thought this odd considering Singerman had come out less than a year ago, and this was the first Superman Celebration since it's release. I think I saw 2 kids out of a few hundred that were there in anything even resembling the Singerman costumes they were selling for kids last Halloween. Most everyone was sporting the traditional look. Also, in all of the auctions there was little, if any, Singerman merchandise. I came across one of the vendors who was selling an authentic Singerman DVD for $6.99 and asked him why it was so cheap? His response was, "I have so many of them, I just want to get rid of the damn things." I was half-tempted to direct him to this blog posting so he could make the best of his bad situation. There were also no guests there from Singerman. Sure Noel Neill was there, but she was there as "TV's First Lois Lane" not "Dying, old bag that signed her fortune over to a pathetic version of Lex Luthor."

Being the inquisitive gent and social butterfly that I am, I figured I'd do some informal questioning of some of the most hard core of the hard core Superman fanbase about some of the hot button topics (and yes, these people were pretty hardcore. If you fly 2500 miles to go to this convention in your own handmade Supes costume, THAT's hardcore!) I did this without revealing who I was, so as not to taint the answers and to protect my secret identity. I talked to a few dozen pretty interesting people during my time there; at the hotel bar, at the merchant tables, at the costume shows and I found one common thread regarding Singerman. When asked what they thought of the film, I got a luke warm response at best. Answers ranged from "It was OK" to "I liked the guy in the suit but the movie was silly" to "Bryan Singer is clueless" (NOT making that one up) to "They crapped all over the character" (that one came from a mother of 3). Granted this wasn't a statistically accurate poll or anything, and I'm not trying to use it as definitive evidence that the film sucked. I just liked hearing the opinions of people who eat, drink, and breath Superman and would go out of their way to support the character in any medium. The highlight of my day had to come when I was talking a woman in her late 40's/early 50's in one of the art galleries and when I asked her if she followed tha character developments on the internet, she listed this blog as one of the places she checks occassionally for news. It's the little things like that, that brighten up your day.

http://singerssupermansucks.blogspot.com/2007/06/sss-live-from-superman-celebration.html

I know that blog has it's own thread, but this does answer the question the post creator asks. I love the lack of Singerman stuff at it. And the guy with the DVD's for cheap.
 

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