Superman Returns Why Don't Some Superman Fans Like Superman Returns?

[El Payaso]

I still don't get it......it's one thing to come to a site like this and talk to people about comic book movies in general, and Superman in particular.....but to create a site just to bad mouth a movie all the time....and for people to look it up and read it.....I just don't get it.

I am a huge Doc Savage fan.....George Pal's Doc Savage movie was terrible.....but I don't create a website called Palsucksatmakingdocsavage movie.com, or have nine tenths of all of my posts here be about how much George Pal's Doc Savage movie sucks......I just don'tget it.

There certainly isn't a Batman&Robinsucks.com. And I certainly wouldn't create Spiderman3fingergunningsucks.com.

It is a way to vent, but also a way to get the message to Warner's that they messed up. It is also a way of telling Warner's that we don't want to see a Singer SR2, or anything for that matter.

I see. Well, makes sense given that sites as Superherohype, Bluetights, Chuds and many other just don't exist.

 

[Cyrusbales]

according to a poll on another thread, SR is more loved than SM3.

There seems to be quite a lot of people who like SR, so where is the problem? Just because it wasn't a mindlerss action romp, people get annoyed. Not every comic book movie has to be consist of senseless action...

 

[Qwerty©]

according to a poll on another thread, SR is more loved than SM3.

There seems to be quite a lot of people who like SR, so where is the problem? Just because it wasn't a mindlerss action romp, people get annoyed. Not every comic book movie has to be consist of senseless action...

That's not entirely accurate.

Batman Begins, one of the most overrated comic book movies there is, isn't great in the action department, even the fans admit this. But it is praised to no end, regardless. Why?

Because fans have a false sense of entitlement. Fans believe that everything should go their way, and anything else is "incorrect". Christopher Nolan cast a fan favorite for the role of Batman. It was darker than Batman & Robin. It was very comic accurate.

The film itself is good, but not great (at least in my opinion) but is viewed in the eyes of fanboys to be some sort of divine creation, just because it pushed all the right buttons.

Singer made a great film, but because he didn't cater to the fanboy's expectations he is getting trashed relentlessly. Same thing is happening with SM3. Venom wasn't done the way the fans wanted, so Raimi is getting trashed.

 

[Cyrusbales]

If people don't like SR, fine, why trash it when we could have had something like GR instead. How someone would rather see a senseless two hours of superman punching some other dude is beyond me.

So what if it's different to how you expected, the reason these people who complain don't make movies is generally because their idea's suck as movies!

Don't view it as a direct extract of comic-book-ness, but as a movie, which is what it is!

 

[Qwerty©]

If people don't like SR, fine, why trash it when we could have had something like GR instead. How someone would rather see a senseless two hours of superman punching some other dude is beyond me.

So what if it's different to how you expected, the reason these people who complain don't make movies is generally because their idea's suck as movies!

Don't view it as a direct extract of comic-book-ness, but as a movie, which is what it is!

Exactly.

There are reasons to complain about comic book movie adaptions, such as if the adaption has completely missed the point or disrespects the source material. Or if it is just plain bad.

SR does not fit those criterion.

 

[Cyrusbales]

Exactly.

There are reasons to complain about comic book movie adaptions, such as if the adaption has completely missed the point or disrespects the source material. Or if it is just plain bad.

SR does not fit those criterion.

enjoy you're silver cookie, you deserve it

 

[El Payaso]

That's not entirely accurate.

Batman Begins, one of the most overrated comic book movies there is, isn't great in the action department, even the fans admit this. But it is praised to no end, regardless. Why?

Because fans have a false sense of entitlement. Fans believe that everything should go their way, and anything else is "incorrect". Christopher Nolan cast a fan favorite for the role of Batman. It was darker than Batman & Robin. It was very comic accurate.

The film itself is good, but not great (at least in my opinion) but is viewed in the eyes of fanboys to be some sort of divine creation, just because it pushed all the right buttons.

Singer made a great film, but because he didn't cater to the fanboy's expectations he is getting trashed relentlessly. Same thing is happening with SM3. Venom wasn't done the way the fans wanted, so Raimi is getting trashed.

Fans have problems accepting that SR did as much if not more than BB - even when this couldn't satisfy executive's pockets. So they'd like to think BB is better just because it took more things directly from the very comics they have on their own shelves. So they might feel the director winked directly at them. Even if characters as Flass, Loeb or Ducard are there in name only(because the movie's character had little to do with the comic's counterparts), it still gives them the feeling that fans "know more" about the character.

Now Batman Begins did a very good balance between a good movie and fan-desires. For me it has a little bunch of flaws that ruined big part of the final result, but it's good overall. My point is, it doesn't have to be this way always. It doesn't have to turn into a must-follow formula. It doesn't have to have comic winks to please fans.

Fair or not, if you follow the fan-desires you'll got fan-praise (but not necessarily a good movie). If you follow your own instinct it will be way harder to get the fan-praise (but maybe the same BO numbers and not a bad movie necessarily). Now if you make a collage of proven formulas and clichés with some cheap humour all over and lots of predictability, you'll get Spiderman numbers.

Now to bash Raimi for Venom when we have all those horrid dancing scenes in Spiderman 3 is too much IMO.

 

[Qwerty©]

enjoy you're silver cookie, you deserve it

Mmm.. tinfoil-y.

 

[Pickle-El]

These last few posts have beep SPOT-ON.

 

[X-Maniac]

Exactly.

There are reasons to complain about comic book movie adaptions, such as if the adaption has completely missed the point or disrespects the source material. Or if it is just plain bad.

SR does not fit those criterion.

Criterion is singular, you mean the plural: criteria. (It's rather like phenomenon and phenomena).

But, pedantry aside, which comic book movie adaptations do you think have succeeded, and which have failed, and why?

 

[Qwerty©]

But, pedantry aside, which comic book movie adaptations do you think have succeeded, and which have failed, and why?

Succeeded:
Batman
Batman Returns
Batman Begins
Superman: The Movie
Superman Returns
Spider-Man
Hellboy
X-Men
X-Men 2

These movies, to me, show that there is a respect for the comic books in the minds of the creators and they 'get it', essentially. They also are high in quality.

Failed:
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin
Superman III
Superman IV
Fantastic Four
Fantastic Four 2
X-Men 3
Constantine
Catwoman

Thse movies, to me, miss the point of the characters, weren't made with respect in mind, but rather a way to make a quick buck. Most of them are pretty bad.

Some films that I have left out, are in the middle.

 

[C. Lee]

why wasn't brandon routh invited to the celebration?
wasn't he very free these days?

I want you to know something.....your trolling is really getting old.

For everyone elses information......celebrities are paid to attend the Superman Festival....and they very much wanted Routh to attend....but he turned them down.....so, he is either working or has a fair amount of money left over from SR.

This year was my 10th year of attending the Superman Festival....there have been celebs like; Michael Rosenbaum, Margot Kidder, Valerie Perrine, Adam West, Lou Ferigno, Julie Newmar, Sara Douglas, Lane Smith, Marc McClure, and many others there.

 

[BareKnucklez]

I defend the right to diagree.

lol you would!


Oh, and yes my Avatar rules all I know!
I'm a proud member of "The Crying Man" fan club! "Tears in My Fro" is a classic tune!

 

[mego joe]

Exactly.

There are reasons to complain about comic book movie adaptions, such as if the adaption has completely missed the point or disrespects the source material. Or if it is just plain bad.

SR does not fit those criterion.

But some of us do believe SR does 'completely miss the point of the character' and 'disrespects the source material.' And that it also 'just plain bad.'

 

[buggs0268]

But some of us do believe SR does 'completely miss the point of the character' and 'disrespects the source material.' And that it also 'just plain bad.'

Exactly. A point a some people fail to understand.

 

[Qwerty©]

But some of us do believe SR does 'completely miss the point of the character' and 'disrespects the source material.' And that it also 'just plain bad.'

Well, I believe you are wrong. Simple as.

Superman is a kind hearted man that gets enjoyment out of saving others lives. Lois Lane is his true love. He disguises himself as Clark Kent. That's the point of the character. This was captured in SR.

Although the film is a continuation of the Donner franchise, there are influences from the Fleischer cartoons, George Reeves TV show, and a few scenes, imagery and plot lines borrowed directly from the comics. Singer describes it as an amalgamation of the essence of Superman. That's respecting the source material.

Whether you think it is bad or not is subjective. But I think it is exaggerating to say SR is 'truly bad'.

 

[Qwerty©]

Exactly. A point a some people fail to understand.

We UNDERSTAND fully. We just can't understand the lengths you go to bash this film.

 

[El Payaso]

lol you would!

Ye I would.

But I won't defend people of their own possible inability of replying properly though.

Oh, and yes my Avatar rules all I know!
I'm a proud member of "The Crying Man" fan club! "Tears in My Fro" is a classic tune!

lol

 

[X-Maniac]

Well, I believe you are wrong. Simple as.

Superman is a kind hearted man that gets enjoyment out of saving others lives. Lois Lane is his true love. He disguises himself as Clark Kent. That's the point of the character. This was captured in SR.

Although the film is a continuation of the Donner franchise, there are influences from the Fleischer cartoons, George Reeves TV show, and a few scenes, imagery and plot lines borrowed directly from the comics. Singer describes it as an amalgamation of the essence of Superman. That's respecting the source material.

Whether you think it is bad or not is subjective. But I think it is exaggerating to say SR is 'truly bad'.

But that’s a fairly superficial acknowledgement of the Superman lore.

Using a similar argument, one could justify some of the movies on your ‘bad’ list. For instance, X3, which (despite its deviations) took many elements from the source material - Magneto’s moving of the bridge, the Phoenix Saga (which includes Phoenix attacking Scott, includes her begging Wolverine to kill her), other stories (New X-Men, Phoenix Endsong) do show Wolverine stabbing Phoenix, the cure storyline itself is from the Astonishing X-Men comics, Xavier has feigned death to go into hiding in older stories and had his body transferred into a clone... Character outcomes were different in X3, but the space opera of the original Phoenix Saga wouldn’t work, and then again I’m not sure Lois lived with Richard and had a kid in the main Superman canon. In fact, the X-movies all deviated from the sources too – the first one setting a trend that became more exaggerated as further movies built on the tangents created in X1 (eg Cyclops was challenged in X1, kidnapped in X2, killed in X3...Wolverine advancing his position in each movie!). By X3, the movieverse was very different to the source, though borrowing elements from the source material. Does Cyclops’ death alone make this a bad movie, one wonders?

 

[buggs0268]

So a lot of the DR defenders seemed to grasp onto this dumb concept that the July 4th weekend is a bad weekend to release a movie. Something about people not wanting to be in the theaters, and in the park and with their families. I guess that theory has been shot down once again this summer:

http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=5966

I honestly and truly love shooting down that theory as it is the dumbest theory I have ever heard and it gets proven wrong every year.

 

[buggs0268]

I honestly think in 5 or 6 years we will see Routh saying stuff when asked why Superman Returns was a failure like:

"Well, audiences wanted a superhero movie and not a soap operaish movie. When we were doing it, it seemed like a good idea, but now looking back on it, we should have done a more superhero type of movie. I still like it, but I can see where the audiences see problems."

It takes about 5 years for people conencted with a film that was not recieved well by the audience to start saying what they really think. The only one I don't see admitting anything of an F-up is Singer.

 

[El Payaso]

I honestly think in 5 or 6 years we will see Routh saying stuff when asked why Superman Returns was a failure like:

"Well, audiences wanted a superhero movie and not a soap operaish movie. When we were doing it, it seemed like a good idea, but now looking back on it, we should have done a more superhero type of movie. I still like it, but I can see where the audiences see problems."

You know we all want the lottery numbers with that one.

It takes about 5 years for people conencted with a film that was not recieved well by the audience to start saying what they really think.

So, I guess for the sake of your own consistency and dignity...

see you in 5 years

 

[buggs0268]

I opend you post because I truly want to see what you had to say. Still on my ignore list. Well, all the rumors are for a JLA movie with SR being a thing to be forgotten. As I predicted the WB to do in the first place after seeing SR's dismal response in theaters. Don't come crying to me when SR2 doesn't happen, and the JLA movie does everything to divorce itself from SR. Like I said, time has proven me right in the past, no matter how you guy try to spin it. Your movie was so well received by the WB and the GA that the WB is going to move on from it. Hows that for a prediction coming true. I am going to predict a boost in sales in kleenex products from all the crying you are going to be doing when this becomes true. I think I will call my broker now.

 

[El Payaso]

I opend you post because I truly want to see what you had to say. Still on my ignore list.

Not like I didn't predict this.

And then again, not like contradiction is a surprise in your posts.

Well, all the rumors are for a JLA movie with SR being a thing to be forgotten. As I predicted the WB to do in the first place after seeing SR's dismal response in theaters. Don't come crying to me when SR2 doesn't happen,

Well, I've stated tons of times - more than I can remember - I don't care for a sequel too much. It'd be cool, but when it comes about Hollywood franchises including characters I care for, I feel really lucky ennough with one good movie and rather one good movie than 3 mediocre average hollywoodian sequels. I got my good movie so if I'm gonna get more formula-esque cloning, I rather to leave it like that.

and the JLA movie does everything to divorce itself from SR.

Oh I hope that piece of crap of a filmic concept would stay as far from SR as possible.

Like I said, time has proven me right in the past, no matter how you guy try to spin it.

I spin it like you can't predict future, just brag about doing it. Can't blame you about trying though, I did about you being unable to ignore me and I was right.

Your movie was so well received by the WB and the GA that the WB is going to move on from it.

Whatever satisfy their pockets. My tastes were satisfied already so I can't complain even if I tried.

Hows that for a prediction coming true. I am going to predict a boost in sales in kleenex products from all the crying you are going to be doing when this becomes true. I think I will call my broker now.

I guess we'll have to see. I can't spend money on kleenex for some mountain of cheap BS right now.


*ding dong*

huh? who could that be?

"Hi, you called me for some ignoring button that refuses to work?"

 

[El Payaso]

double post, sorry