Why I don't like 2.1

[Dark Spidey]

Okay. I recently bought and watched 2.1. But I couldn't decide which cut I prefer, that or the Theatrical version. So I yesterday I watched my original cut DVD again. And afterwards I couldn't believe how much they ruined an already perfect movie with all this new stuff.

In my opinion, all of the added seconds to scenes really spoil the flow of pace in the movie, like Peter with the campus Doctor, Peter with the pizza guy, Peter delivering the Pizzas etc. But my real problems with 2.1 are the the bigger additions and new scenes.

For starters how about at Peter's birthday. When Harry tells Peter that he wants Spider-man dead, just like Peter wanted Uncle Ben's killer dead. WHAT!? This makes no sense to me what-so-ever. Harry doesn't know that Peter chased after Ben's killer. That he was there when Uncle Ben's killer fell to his death. Think about it, when would Peter have said that? That actually wanted the guy dead. He wouldn't have said it! And then we see a picture of Peter and Osborn together. In the Parker home! Err.... excuse me? Peter and Uncle Ben, yes. Peter and Norman Osborn!? Even if May doesn't know that Norman was the Goblin. And even if Peter decided against his better judgement not to remove it from the house. It still doesn't feel natural that there would be a picture of them together there.

The new elevator scene just isn't funny. Atleast the original version of that scene was partly amusing and had that awkward elevator ride feel to it. And it makes perfect sense that the guy with the dog didn't realise it was the real Spider-man in the Theatrical version. Because come on, who expects to see the real Spider-man (someone who swings around the city on webs) riding in an elevator!? Of course the guy would assume it's just someone dressed up as Spidey.

But my biggest gripe has to be the new MJ scene shopping with her friend. This scene not only, again disrupts the flow of the movie, but also serves to make MJ look extremely shallow and stupid! In the original version it was quite obvious to me that MJ accepted John's proposal because she's trying to move on. Trying to put her feelings for Peter behind her. This is made clear by the fact, that in the very scene before their engagement is anounced she's talking to Peter telling him how painful it is to think about him.

But now were told that she accepts John's proposal because her father had told her she would never find a husband, or something like that. What!? That totally sucks as a reason to get married to the guy. Atleast in the original version you can believe that she's desperate to put her feelings for Peter behind her. She may be kidding herself, which she eventually realises, but it's still more believable.

Then there's the new Jameson scene in the Spidey outfit. Again, totally breaks the pace of the movie. But more than that, I don't find it funny. I find it embarrassing to watch because it's not funny. In the original version, it's perfect. At first JJJ is happy because he feels he defeated Spidey, made him quit. Then when Spidey is needed he realises he was wrong about him (before hounding afer his blood once more after Peter steals back his costume!). Seeing Jameson jumping about on his desk pretending to be Spidey really ruins this (and yes, i'm well aware that in the comics JJJ was secretly jealous of Spidey, but it still doesn't work for me here).

Even the new fight scenes fail to impress me. Mostly because of the way they were edited into the existing film, interupting the flow of what were already great fight scenes. Although I did like the new office rumble, I just can't buy into the physics of that scene. There's no way that Ock could throw Spidey out that window with enough momentum that when Spidey latches onto him with webbing that it would drag Ock out with him too. It's just physically impossible! How heavy is Spidey exactly!? I know it's just a movie. But even within that movie world there are certain rules of physics that have to be applied in order for us to buy into the story.

I know people will probably jump on me for venting all of this. But to those I would simply say, please don't turn your back on the original cut of the film!! It's still great. It's still perfect! If you don't believe me, go watch it again! I think you'll be surprised just how unecessary 2.1 really is.

 

[matthooper]

Your complaints are 100% valid and right on!

Those scenes were cut by Sam Raimi for a reason, they sucked and Raimi didn't feel they worked. Spider-Man 2.1 isn't a directors cut, it's simply a studio trying to squeeze a few more bucks out of Spider-Man 2 before the release of part 3, by adding scenes that didn't work in the first place.

This isn't a studio that interfered with a director's vision or a director that lacked funds to make his true version of the film he wanted. The theatrical release of SM2 is exactly what Sam Raimi wanted us to see. I heard in an interview where Raimi flat out said he had nothing really to do with 2.1 and it was just the studio trying to make more money.

 

[Famira Damaris]

Seconding this (especially on the Jameson part - I outloud went "Wtf is this?").

It's especially annoying now because the normal Spider-man 2 dvds? Can't seem to find them in stores now, so there's only the 2.1 there - I'm trying to get a friend to watch the two movies and I had to warn them not to go get the 2.1 version because it's long and because of ******ed scenes like that (though some of the editions to the action scenes were okay).

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Okay. I recently bought and watched 2.1. But I couldn't decide which cut I prefer, that or the Theatrical version. So I yesterday I watched my original cut DVD again. And afterwards I couldn't believe how much they ruined an already perfect movie with all this new stuff.

In my opinion, all of the added seconds to scenes really spoil the flow of pace in the movie, like Peter with the campus Doctor, Peter with the pizza guy, Peter delivering the Pizzas etc. But my real problems with 2.1 are the the bigger additions and new scenes.

For starters how about at Peter's birthday. When Harry tells Peter that he wants Spider-man dead, just like Peter wanted Uncle Ben's killer dead. WHAT!? This makes no sense to me what-so-ever. Harry doesn't know that Peter chased after Ben's killer. That he was there when Uncle Ben's killer fell to his death. Think about it, when would Peter have said that? That actually wanted the guy dead. He wouldn't have said it! And then we see a picture of Peter and Osborn together. In the Parker home! Err.... excuse me? Peter and Uncle Ben, yes. Peter and Norman Osborn!? Even if May doesn't know that Norman was the Goblin. And even if Peter decided against his better judgement not to remove it from the house. It still doesn't feel natural that there would be a picture of them together there.

The new elevator scene just isn't funny. Atleast the original version of that scene was partly amusing and had that awkward elevator ride feel to it. And it makes perfect sense that the guy with the dog didn't realise it was the real Spider-man in the Theatrical version. Because come on, who expects to see the real Spider-man (someone who swings around the city on webs) riding in an elevator!? Of course the guy would assume it's just someone dressed up as Spidey.

But my biggest gripe has to be the new MJ scene shopping with her friend. This scene not only, again disrupts the flow of the movie, but also serves to make MJ look extremely shallow and stupid! In the original version it was quite obvious to me that MJ accepted John's proposal because she's trying to move on. Trying to put her feelings for Peter behind her. This is made clear by the fact, that in the very scene before their engagement is anounced she's talking to Peter telling him how painful it is to think about him.

But now were told that she accepts John's proposal because her father had told her she would never find a husband, or something like that. What!? That totally sucks as a reason to get married to the guy. Atleast in the original version you can believe that she's desperate to put her feelings for Peter behind her. She may be kidding herself, which she eventually realises, but it's still more believable.

Then there's the new Jameson scene in the Spidey outfit. Again, totally breaks the pace of the movie. But more than that, I don't find it funny. I find it embarrassing to watch because it's not funny. In the original version, it's perfect. At first JJJ is happy because he feels he defeated Spidey, made him quit. Then when Spidey is needed he realises he was wrong about him (before hounding afer his blood once more after Peter steals back his costume!). Seeing Jameson jumping about on his desk pretending to be Spidey really ruins this (and yes, i'm well aware that in the comics JJJ was secretly jealous of Spidey, but it still doesn't work for me here).

Even the new fight scenes fail to impress me. Mostly because of the way they were edited into the existing film, interupting the flow of what were already great fight scenes. Although I did like the new office rumble, I just can't buy into the physics of that scene. There's no way that Ock could throw Spidey out that window with enough momentum that when Spidey latches onto him with webbing that it would drag Ock out with him too. It's just physically impossible! How heavy is Spidey exactly!? I know it's just a movie. But even within that movie world there are certain rules of physics that have to be applied in order for us to buy into the story.

I know people will probably jump on me for venting all of this. But to those I would simply say, please don't turn your back on the original cut of the film!! It's still great. It's still perfect! If you don't believe me, go watch it again! I think you'll be surprised just how unecessary 2.1 really is.

The exact line is "I want this guy dead, just like you want the guy who killed your Uncle Ben dead." Which indicated to me that Harry thinks Uncle Ben's killer is still at large. Also, the picture of Peter and Norman is at Peter's graduation from the first movie, not the Parker house.

 

[Dark Spidey]

The exact line is "I want this guy dead, just like you want the guy who killed your Uncle Ben dead." Which indicated to me that Harry thinks Uncle Ben's killer is still at large. Also, the picture of Peter and Norman is at Peter's graduation from the first movie, not the Parker house.

I'm fairly sure the line is: "I want this guy dead, just like you wanted the guy who killed your Uncle Ben dead."

But even if i'm wrong. Peter would never say that he would want somebody dead anyway!! So either way, my point still stands. It's out of character.

As for the photo. You mis-read my post. I know the picture was taken at Peter's graduation. But i'm saying it doesn't feel right having a photo displayed of Peter and Norman Osborn together, in the Parker home.

 

[Super Kal]

well, the good thing is that no one is forcing you to not sell the movie and an EB Games.

 

[Emo-Man 3]

I really liked 2.1. Those 8 minutes added a lot...Only the new elevator scene was not as good as the original one.

 

[The Joker]

I really liked 2.1. Those 8 minutes added a lot...Only the new elevator scene was not as good as the original one.

I agree.

 

[spiderfan21]

Quote:

I know it's just a movie. But even within that movie world there are certain rules of physics that have to be applied in order for us to buy into the story.


yes like a guy shooting web from his wrists and swinging thru NYC abides by the laws of physics.

 

[spiderfan21]

Quote:

I know it's just a movie. But even within that movie world there are certain rules of physics that have to be applied in order for us to buy into the story.


yes like a guy shooting web from his wrists and swinging thru NYC abides by the laws of physics.

 

[Leenie]

There are some things I loved from 2.1, some thinks I liked, and one thing that annoyed me.

I REALLY don't like the part where Spidey takes off his mask after he gets those robbers in the car. I mean ... EVERYONE could see him. I can totally see why that wasn't in the first cut.

 

[Dark Spidey]

There are some things I loved from 2.1, some thinks I liked, and one thing that annoyed me.

I REALLY don't like the part where Spidey takes off his mask after he gets those robbers in the car. I mean ... EVERYONE could see him. I can totally see why that wasn't in the first cut.

And yet on the DVD commentary for Spidey 2, Sam Raimi questions whether he should have left that in the theatrical version or not. He felt that maybe that last shot of him taking off his mask was necessary for us to connect with Peter again. That otherwise, people would wonder where Peter got the car that he pulls up in outside MJ's theatre.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

2.1 only makes any difference to the fans. If a general viewer watched the cinematic release in 2004, then watched 2.1 in 2007, they wouldn't notice any difference.

 

[Leenie]

And yet on the DVD commentary for Spidey 2, Sam Raimi questions whether he should have left that in the theatrical version or not. He felt that maybe that last shot of him taking off his mask was necessary for us to connect with Peter again. That otherwise, people would wonder where Peter got the car that he pulls up in outside MJ's theatre.

Oh yeah! I remember that from the commentary, but I never thought, "Oh, how did he get the car?" I always assumed that he got it from the robbers.

 

[The Joker]

It was an unnecessary addition that bit.

 

[Dark Spidey]

While waiting for Spidey 3 to come out on DVD I thought i'd give 2.1 another chance and... well... I still hate it.

Nearly every scene extension I can think of kills the flow and pacing of what was already a perfect cut of the film. The pizza delivery, the backyard chat, the campus doctor, Peter taking his mask off when he gets in the car, Peter's meeting with Octavius... all ruined. I'll never watch this crap again.

Spider-Man 2 = Masterpiece.

Spider-Man 2.1 = Abomination.

 

[Kaizer104]

2.1 only makes any difference to the fans. If a general viewer watched the cinematic release in 2004, then watched 2.1 in 2007, they wouldn't notice any difference.

Most of it, yes. But the Jameson part DEFINITELY was noticed by people.

 

[The Joker]

Spider-Man 2 = Masterpiece.

Spider-Man 2.1 = Abomination.

I wouldn't call it an abomination. It doesn't dramatically change the movie that much.

I liked the addition of the MJ scene with her friend about why she's marrying John. Some of the new action was cool, too. But, overall I prefer the original cut.

 

[Eelectro 2]

i loved every single one of the new scenes. i thought it brought alot more character development into the movie for the characters and i especially loved the peter birthday and mj backyard scenes. the only issues i had with it were the boss at the pizza parlour saying 'go' differently and i'll admit the new elevator scene through me off but either version i like

 

[chaseter]

The new MJ dialogue was needed and the extended fight scenes were awesome. The train sequence seemed a bit short to me in the original but now it is perfect...the only WTF is when Spidey swings off of the train after being hit by it so quick.

 

[kward711]

Spider-Man 2.2 on dvd:

-more deleted footage
-branching feature so you can edit in/out what scenes you want or don't want
-you also have the option of watching the original cut with deleted scenes separate


if only...... I always like new footage but some of it didn't belong in the film which is why they should have a branching feature. (hopefully for SM3)

 

[TLH]

I hated 2.1...

The only good scene was when Peter turned on the police scanner--that 6 second scene added a lot with so little.

But let's not forget the jarring shot of 3 Peter Parkers walking through the park during the "Raindrops" sequence, the shot of Spidey removing his mask after taking out the thugs in the middle of a busy street, the extended talk with the usher, among everything else you said.

I resent Sony for tricking a lot of people into buying something they didn't even need to release.

 

[Mr Jide]

And yet on the DVD commentary for Spidey 2, Sam Raimi questions whether he should have left that in the theatrical version or not. He felt that maybe that last shot of him taking off his mask was necessary for us to connect with Peter again. That otherwise, people would wonder where Peter got the car that he pulls up in outside MJ's theatre.

This is one of many reasons why I don't like sam raimi. He thinks the audience is stupid. I take it you know his reasons for not giving spidey mechs??

 

[Spider-Fan]

I thought the theatrical cut was better, but the additions didn't suck, they just were not as good (in most cases) as the original scenes.

 

[Dark Spidey]

I wouldn't call it an abomination. It doesn't dramatically change the movie that much.

As someone who has watched the original version what must be nearly a hundred times, I found even tiniest of changes ruined the flow and pace what was already a perfect cut of the film.

I liked the addition of the MJ scene with her friend about why she's marrying John. Some of the new action was cool, too. But, overall I prefer the original cut.

Regarding the addition of the new MJ scene, as I mentioned in my initial post, this is probably my biggest problem with 2.1. In the original version of the film it's quite obvious that Mary Jane accepts John's proposal in an attempt to convince herself that she is over Peter. Basically, in an attempt to move on.

Yet in 2.dumb (as i'm inclined to refer to it) we're told that she gets engaged to John because her Father once told her she'd never get married! This is ridiculous.

Sure her original motivations were misguided, but atleast you could believe that she was desperate enough to fool herself she was in love with John. You could sympathise. Where as this new explantion only serves to make her look shallow and stupid!