Comics "Why I Hate Wolverine"

nephron

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Stumbled across this little missive today, and I thought it was spot-on. Here's one for all you Wolverine-haters:





De: http://www.sequart.com/SequentialCulture15.htm

Why I Hate Wolverine

Sequart.com Columns

JULIAN DARIUS



Wolverine would have been a good recurring character in The Incredible Hulk, where he first appeared. And I would have defended him, retractable claws and all. But he can’t really sustain his own book, nor being a major character in a team book. He’s just a fairly ****** character, a second-stringer to anyone but those with a part of their brains stuck at 17 years of age.



Let’s be clear about this: people love Wolverine because he’s a tough guy. He’s the Dirty Harry of the mutant world. And God knows Americans love their Dirty Harrys. Wolverine’s sole point is to be a badass and to kill people. If super-hero comics are stereotypically defined by the fight-of-the-month, Wolverine’s the king of the fight-of-the-month mentality. He’s not good at anything else.



The Weapon X program is cool and interesting, and it’s a good origin for a character defined by his ability to kill. But it’s only that. Wolverine can act anguished about his own abuse, but that usually just results in a “berserker rage” in which he just claws everything in sight. The guy’s not exactly an introvert. The guy’s not exactly a thinker. Does he have any measurable interior space? Not really. He’s the tough guy, and that’s it.



I like nothing more than seeing Wolverine burned to a crisp and slowly healing. You can’t feel sorry for him: he’s a tough guy, and he gets what he gets. He’s not a hero. No one gets points for courage when he heals like that. I mean, Superman’s a fun character but he’s not known for his courage: what does he have to fear? But Superman has an interior space. Watch Clark Kent agonize over not being able to stop a dictator as Superman because of his ridiculous, Kansas-imposed commitment to the laws of this world. Hell, watch him agonize -- in the classic Superman-Lois-Clark love triangle -- over his inability to woo Lois Lane. There’s a character who’s hard to write but who has interiority despite his powers. Superman’s a rich character not for his powers, even though he could be the ultimate badass if he wanted to be. But not Wolverine.



Wolverine talks like a kid acting tough. “I’m not good for nothing but killing” is something Wolverine might say, but not in a moment of introversion. Instead, he’d say it with a tough demeanor, revealing nothing more than his own shallow bravado mixed with a seasoning of self-pity. This is a guy who routinely says things as stupid as the Thing’s “it’s clobbering time” but who takes these ridiculous expressions seriously. He’s got the emotional maturity of a high school kid, and an immature one at that. Like an adolescent, he thinks tough guys say this kind of ****. dfh tough guys know that toughness is communicated through actions, through self-control as well as through rage. Even the women in Frank Miller’s Sin City are tougher than Wolverine. Anyone over 17 is tougher than Wolverine. He’s the poster child for arrested development. He’s got all the complexity of hard rock music, of prancing in leather and thinking that acting tough makes you a badass. He’s a poseur, and not a very good one at that.



If I’m going to read a tough guy, I’ll read the Punisher. I don’t need the claws. I certainly don’t need the ridiculous healing factor. The Punisher’s a badass but he’s a badass you can relate to. He can’t hide behind his healing factor. He’s not a super-hero. He had a bad day, like the Joker, and his solution to his rage at what humans are capable of doing to each other is to eradicate as many bad guys as he can from the face of the Earth. And he does so with guns, like real people do, not with claws. He’s a ****ed-up Vietnam vet, killing vicious criminals instead of robbing banks for that old high he got in war. He’s not the deepest character, to be sure, but he’s a better badass than the whiny, bragging Wolverine. Wolverine belongs with villains like Juggernaut, ridiculous monstrosities who can withstand his claws and unwillingness to control himself and his “berserker barrages.” The Punisher belongs with mobsters, with the mundane child molesters of the world. He’s not Rorschach, but he’s cut of that cloth. Now, there’s a badass with depth. Wolverine, on the other hand...



None of this addresses, of course, the remarkable inconsistencies of Wolverine’s character. He’s a loner who spends all his time with the X-Men. If Wolverine has a problem with Weapon X’s abuse of him, why does he not have a problem with Professor X’s agenda? Sometimes, Wolverine’s depicted as killing civilians in bar fight. Other times, he has the non-killing attitudes of the X-Men, even against the vicious killers that the Punisher greets with a bullet to the brain. He stops short of killing mass murderers, but has left a string of dead drunken brawlers across the United States and Canada. Yeah, great guy.



Not to mention the whole love triangle with Cyclops and Jean Grey. I mean, there’s a reason Jean Grey chose Cyclops over Wolvie. Cyclops is an introvert, a thinker. Wolverine is the extrovert, the unexamined adolescent. Okay, we know the average comics reader is a little more nerdy than the average Joe. A little more thoughtful. Probably a little more introverted. Why identify with Wolverine? Granted, Cyclops doesn’t have a lot of interiority either, but he’s certainly a lot closer to the stereotypical comics reader than Wolverine is. It’s argued that comics readers see super-heroes as power fantasies: is Wolverine, then, the fantasy of being the high school jock instead of the high school nerd? Doesn’t the love of Wolverine by thoughtful, introverted readers express a kind of self-hatred? A wish that they could be a badass, perhaps? And a stupid, bragging, unexamined badass at that? A secret desire to be -- dare I say it? -- Flash Thompson?



Of course, there’s also that awful sound effect. I mean, really. Snikt! Snikt? What the **** is that? Have you ever heard something make that sound in your life? No, but it sounds cool -- in a thoughtless, adolescent kind of way.



Any character can be good if written properly. Here’s a guy who, when he extends his claws, they rip holes through his skin. He’s so used to pain that writers and artists don’t even note that pain in the comics when his claws come out. But he feels it. Now, if you wanted to do this right, you’d have a psychotic Wolverine. A guy who can’t use his powers without pain, who’s not really good for anything but killing. He should be ****ed up, in his own little world. He enjoys the rip of his claws through his skin. He likes it enough to do it at almost any opportunity. It makes him, deadened to sensation through experience, feel alive in some small way. He’s an addict. He craves combat. He craves feeling alive. No wonder he kills guys in bars but not villains who rend him limb from limb. Make Wolverine a psychotic who goes to S&M clubs and gets torn to ribbons every night -- a guy who can’t come unless half his body is on fire and literally shredded. He’s not good for anything else, and he’s gone down a path of needing to be hurt more and more to produce that same adrenaline rush.



He’s not in the X-Men for a social outlet -- or because, after seeing everything he’s seen of the world, he believes in Xavier’s dream. No, he’s there to pick up chicks. Then he gets the sexy, spandex-wearing teenage new recruit back to his room, where she’s thinking she’s going to have sex with Wolverine -- Mr. Badass to her, because she’s 17 and falls for that kind of bragging thoughtlessness, which is probably why he does it in the first place, outside of his own arrested development. She gets back to his room at the X-mansion, so convenient for such liaisons, and he closes the door. She expects him to be all over her, to take her like the tough man he is. But he begs her to tie him up and to cut him with knives, to set him on fire, to shoot him over and over again. She does so, but it does nothing for her. So much for the tough Wolverine, she thinks.



That’s my Epic Comics proposal, Mr. Jemas. A one-shot mature readers book. And the best Wolverine story ever written.



Because, you know, there haven’t been many good ones.
 
wow, talk about having a lot of free time.. writing essays about one's feelings for comic book characters..
 
I love how he says Wolverine's "sole point is to be a badass and to kill people" and then goes and claims that the Punisher is a better character.
 
My favorite part was,

"Wolverine talks like a kid acting tough. 'I’m not good for nothing but killing' is something Wolverine might say...".

Sounds about right, and that's probably the main reason the character is so grating to me.
 
Wolverine cant sustain his own book or be a major member in a team one? How about 9 all at the same time? Guess this guy was in a coma for the past 20 or so years
 
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yeah I don't really like Wolverine all that much, but reading that was excruciating and pointless. please don't use the Punisher(a character I like a lot) as an example of whats wrong with Wolverine when When hardcore Wolverine fans usually like Punisher and vice versa. Also don't bad mouth Flash Thompson.
 
The second this dude got into why Superman is a better character, he totally lost me.
Wolvie may not be the best, deepest character ever, but piss off with the Boy Scout...
 
Wow, what hole did this clown crawl out of?

Has he even ever read anything about Wolverine besides one-shots? Seriously, he left out everything that makes Wolverine interesting--his contradictions. Sure, he's a crazy berserker, but he's a samurai--he's honorable. The fact that he sticks around despite his claim to being the loner shows a different side to his character. Wolverine has had plenty of heart-to-hearts with a number of characters over the years. People trust him, listen to him, and talk to him. Just because he's always fighting the animal, it seems like sometimes he doesn't recognize his own worth as a team member.

Besides, kids and puppies like him. :D It just seems like other attempting alpha males get their gander up whenever he's around--and for good reason. He threatens their authority.

When I think of the Wolverine that’s I’ve valued over the years I see a samurai who has fought for years against his own nature to be a noble man–one who has fought so long that he understands how difficult it is to come back from the brink. I see him as the mysterious but charming Patch in Madripoor, with his gang of loyal “Wolverine Rescue Squad” who are willing to risk their lives to save his without hesitation (see Uncanny X-Men 261). I see Logan with Silverfox, when he wasn’t able to shoot his dog Blue even though he had rabies, so she had to do it for him–the same Logan who wouldn’t kill a boy who ran him over intentionally and then opened fire on him. I see the Wolverine who has been haunted by the bad things he’s done and which have been done to him, but somehow these have only served to make him be the hero he has become in the world’s eyes–one that is valued far more than just as a killer. As Jubilee and Scott once said in one of the New X-Men issues, Logan is a “marshmellow” underneath all of his toughness. The “conscience” of the X-Men, as said by Kitty Pryde. Even as he’s grown harder as Mariko has died, he’s had to kill Jean time and time again, and he’s been betrayed by everything from his own memory to so many people he has tried to trust, he’s remained the same basic person. And the conscience of the X-Men is not a murderer, no matter what he’s forgotten or remembered over the ups and downs of his life.

This is a whole lot more than the "smash and bash" Wolverine you're trying to attack, nephron, along with whoever you're quoting.

And . . . . *really*? Attacking the "snikt" sound? Seriously, if you're going to waste your time attacking a character, at least pick something of some small iota of importance.

:whatever:
 
characters with mysterious pasts can always sustain more than their fair share in the spotlight.
 
Wow, what hole did this clown crawl out of?

People who think Wolverine is a stupid character, for perfectly valid reasons I might add, are clowns? From holes? Ok then. I suppose that I too, am a Clown From A Hole. (might be a good band-name...Clowns From A Hole, or The Hole-Clowns.)

Nah. It's ok that you like him, but there are a whole lot of us who can't stand Wolverine for all the reasons Darius pointed out, and more.

And, considering how the character is virtually omnipresent now, he's perfectly fair game to gripe about.



. . . . *really*? Attacking the "snikt" sound? Seriously, if you're going to waste your time attacking a character, at least pick something of some small iota of importance.

Yes, really.

It is not cool. In fact, it is one more dumb thing about Wolverine.

As for not being important, well...we're talking about a comic-book character, so really none of it's "important" at all is it?

I'm surprised Darius didn't mention the hair, though. How can you write a piece on why Wolverine is such a nauseatingly lame character without mentioning the completely absurd, ridiculous looking, goofy-@$$, Cirque-du-Soleil-style hair Wolvie sports? How can he take himself soooooo seriously with that do, man? And has there ever been any sort of explanation for it?
 
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wow another i hate wolverine thread

Wolverine is in every marvel title and cover because it makes marvel money and it makes marvel money because he has a huge fan base and usually characters have huge fan base because they are interesting, and connect with people in different ways. So you are very much in the minority, sales prove it.

why do i like wolverine you ask? i like him for all the reasons you hate wolverine, as simply as i can state it with out wasted peoples time, thank you
 
well personally I wouldn't like Wolverine if he didn't have the *snikt*. This thread is honestly pointless and going to start useless argument that waste peoples time when they could be wasting it to do more constructive things other than b****ing about Wolverine.

Yes Wolverine is popular, yes he has a huge fan base, yes there are a lot of people who hate the character. I bet they wouldn't hate the character if he wasn't everywhere. Really we all have better things to do than discuss Wolverine. You're entire thing about you hating Wolverine comes off like you think way to much about the characters. you're argument is weak. just say you "hate Wolverine cause you just do". you'll save a lot of time for everyone. Making a thread about why you hate Wolverine will never ever derail the character's popularity, get him pulled from NA roster, get rid of any of his 1-shots/minis or effect comics ever sorry. If you really hate the character so much just ignore him. He won't go away, but just ignoring him all together is better than this thread.
 
I understand there is a bit of Wolverine overkill at the moment, but for me, that doesn't take away anything from his character.

He is more than just a bad ass you says "I'm the best at what I does..." and all that.

What about his fatherly instincts over Kitty Pryde and Jubilee? His eternal battle between the animal side and the human side that rages within him at all times. He is a great character, just over used these days.

As for Superman? Do me a favour, he is one of the most boring characters out there IMO.

And Punisher? I do like Frank but come on, how does he have more depth than Wolverine? He is that typical cliche of ex soldier/cop watches family get murdered, then proceeds to go on a murder spree killing criminals and mob bosses and what not. That whole thing has been played out to death.
 
This thread is honestly pointless...

Dude. It's a comic book forum. All the threads are pointless.



Making a thread about why you hate Wolverine will never ever derail the character's popularity, get him pulled from NA roster, get rid of any of his 1-shots/minis or effect comics ever sorry.

Never thought it would, but so what?



If you really hate the character so much just ignore him. He won't go away, but just ignoring him all together is better than this thread.

So we can only put up threads about stuff we like? Well, I liked Darius's article, so I put up. If you hate Julian Darius and this thread so much, just ignore them.
 
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sorry that I find discussing comics and characters in a positive way a better idea than hate mongering over Wolverine. this is pointlessness on a whole new level.
 
sorry that I find discussing comics and characters in a positive way a better idea than hate mongering over Wolverine. this is pointlessness on a whole new level.

"Hate-mongering"? Earlier someone said something about "attacking" Wolverine. He's a fictional character. I don't see how either of those terms apply to a fictional character. Some people are acting as if it's somehow mean to deconstruct and criticize a character.

As a fan of storytelling and character creation/development in general, and comics in particular, I don't see anything wrong with critiquing the flaws of a character that's everywhere. It's actually kind of fun. How is it pointless? This forum's about indulging in pointless analysis of stuff in comic books. Is this any more pointless than, say, a thread about how Spider-Man's webshooters work?

The answer is, of course, "no". My guess is, you're taking this personally. It seems like some people are thinking something like "If he calls a character I like dumb, then he's calling me dumb!"

If you want to discuss how Wolverine is a more complex and developed character (as others have done in this thread) then that's cool. Let's have that conversation. If you don't want to discuss it, that's cool too. But honestly, how much sense does it make for you to come in here and say "This thread is pointless, you should shut up." There's more than a little irony in that behavior.
 
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I understand there is a bit of Wolverine overkill at the moment, but for me, that doesn't take away anything from his character.

He is more than just a bad ass you says "I'm the best at what I does..." and all that.

What about his fatherly instincts over Kitty Pryde and Jubilee? His eternal battle between the animal side and the human side that rages within him at all times. He is a great character, just over used these days.

As for Superman? Do me a favour, he is one of the most boring characters out there IMO.

And Punisher? I do like Frank but come on, how does he have more depth than Wolverine? He is that typical cliche of ex soldier/cop watches family get murdered, then proceeds to go on a murder spree killing criminals and mob bosses and what not. That whole thing has been played out to death.


I disagree with everything you just said (except the point about the Punisher being cliche. You are totally right), but I likes the way you said it. Man is it refreshing to hear someone actually argue points about the subject instead of just saying "Don't talk bad about Wolverine! Waaaaah!"
 
"Hate-mongering"? Earlier someone said something about "attacking" Wolverine. He's a fictional character. I don't see how either of those terms apply to a fictional character. Some people are acting as if it's somehow mean to deconstruct and criticize a character.

As a fan of storytelling and character creation/development in general, and comics in particular, I don't see anything wrong with critiquing the flaws of a character that's everywhere. It's actually kind of fun. How is it pointless? This forum's about indulging in pointless analysis of stuff in comic books. Is this any more pointless than, say, a thread about how Spider-Man's webshooters work?

The answer is, of course, "no". My guess is, you're taking this personally. It seems like some people are thinking something like "If he calls a character I like dumb, then he's calling me dumb!"

If you want to discuss how Wolverine is a more complex and developed character (as others have done in this thread) then that's cool. Let's have that conversation. If you don't want to discuss it, that's cool too. But honestly, how much sense does it make for you to come in here and say "This thread is pointless, you should shut up." There's more than a little irony in that behavior.

You are completely misguided I don't even care about Wolverine. if they killed off the character it wouldn't effect me. You are generalizing a character and then taking offense when I generalize your thread. that is irony
 
People who think Wolverine is a stupid character, for perfectly valid reasons I might add, are clowns? From holes? Ok then. I suppose that I too, am a Clown From A Hole. (might be a good band-name...Clowns From A Hole, or The Hole-Clowns.)

Nah. It's ok that you like him, but there are a whole lot of us who can't stand Wolverine for all the reasons Darius pointed out, and more.

I don't believe sniktsnakt was referring to all non-Wolverine fans as clowns, just the author of the article because he disagreed with his essay. It certainly wasn't a generalization of all non-fans.
 
[A];16609382 said:
wow, talk about having a lot of free time.. writing essays about one's feelings for comic book characters..
You must not visit the Marvel and DC comic forums very often. People can get pretty damn verbose when voicing their opinions about comics and all things related to them, including characters. Especially Dread, who could fill a book with a year's worth of his Bought/Thought reviews.


I don't really agree with this guy (I'm annoyed, but I still like Wolverine), but there's nothing wrong with him having an opinion about ol' Wolvie and writing it.

Besides, I'd be a hypocrit if I said otherwise.


--EDIT--
Wait... Aeghast?! What the hell is up with people changing their names?
 
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Stumbled across this little missive today, and I thought it was spot-on. Here's one for all you Wolverine-haters:

De: http://www.sequart.com/SequentialCulture15.htm

Why I Hate Wolverine

Sequart.com Columns

JULIAN DARIUS

Wolverine would have been a good recurring character in The Incredible Hulk, where he first appeared. And I would have defended him, retractable
claws and all. But he can’t really sustain his own book, nor being a major character in a team book. He’s just a fairly ****** character, a
second-stringer to anyone but those with a part of their brains stuck at 17 years of age.

I think you missed the last 30 years, wolverine CAN sustain his own book he actually can sustain several of them not to mention all the team books
and guest appearances. As for as having our brains stuck at 17, I'm afraid your math is a bit off considering most comic fans are older then that
and so are the writers that write wolverine and so is everyone running Marvel. Thw Wolverine fan base is also alot bigger then the hate base seeing how Marvel makes tons of money ever time Wolverine is put in an issue.

Let’s be clear about this: people love Wolverine because he’s a tough guy. He’s the Dirty Harry of the mutant world. And God knows
Americans love their Dirty Harrys. Wolverine’s sole point is to be a badass and to kill people. If super-hero comics are stereotypically defined
by the fight-of-the-month, Wolverine’s the king of the fight-of-the-month mentality. He’s not good at anything else.

You guys don't like him so what gives you the right to say why he is liked. It was in poor taste to even think you know why people like him, but
as stated before " Wolverine is a man of contradictions; superhero and outlaw, moral philosopher and psychotic, loner and a family man. He's a
protector of society who feels ill-at-ease within it. He's a breaker of rules who binds himself to a code of honor, a world famous adventurer who
hides behind a false identity, a savage killer of criminals and a kind friend to children. He's a beast and a man all in one person" so as you
can see many people can relate to him on so many levels, maybe you just haven't found yours yet.

The Weapon X program is cool and interesting, and it’s a good origin for a character defined by his ability to kill. But it’s only that.
Wolverine can act anguished about his own abuse, but that usually just results in a “berserker rage” in which he just claws everything in sight.
The guy’s not exactly an introvert. The guy’s not exactly a thinker. Does he have any measurable interior space? Not really. He’s the tough guy,
and that’s it.

I'm glad to see you enjoyed Weapon X, it was an important part of Wolverine's life, but it is hardly hes origin, Wolverine was born a mutant as
covered in ORIGIN, a must read for any "why i hate Wolverine" thread makers. If you want to see Wolverine a thinker, there had been plenty of
times in the Wolverine origins on tactful thinking when it comes to fighting his betters such as captain america, the x-men, shield, daken and
many others. judging by your lack of knowledge leads me to believe you haven't ready anything current.

I like nothing more than seeing Wolverine burned to a crisp and slowly healing. You can’t feel sorry for him: he’s a tough guy, and he
gets what he gets. He’s not a hero. No one gets points for courage when he heals like that. I mean, Superman’s a fun character but he’s not known
for his courage: what does he have to fear? But Superman has an interior space. Watch Clark Kent agonize over not being able to stop a dictator
as Superman because of his ridiculous, Kansas-imposed commitment to the laws of this world. Hell, watch him agonize -- in the classic Superman-
Lois-Clark love triangle -- over his inability to woo Lois Lane. There’s a character who’s hard to write but who has interiority despite his
powers. Superman’s a rich character not for his powers, even though he could be the ultimate badass if he wanted to be. But not Wolverine.

Superman and Wolverine have very different powers. Superman pretty much has every power there is. super speed, strength, hearing, x-ray vision,
optic rays, winter breath, invincibility, flight, solar powered, doesn't age.

Wolverine is born with bone claws, and later developed a healing factor and senses, weapon x gave him adamantium. Wolverine feels all the pain
that a normal human would if they get hurt and to realize that you are going to have to go through that pain time and time again to save a child
or a fallen teammate or the world, to endure that pain would be like torture and as most know death seems like sweet bliss if you were being
burned alive, shot up, cut apart. Most people would rather have a quick death then to be tortured over and over again. What makes Wolverine the
hero is he chooses others over himself, he puts there lives first. Wolverine has had many close calls and it wasn't till last year that a certain
writer wrote wolverine with a over the top healing factor, so if you know anything about wolverine you would realize that it was a fluke an
excited writer who wanted to tell a story. Every character has had writers write them out of the norm.

As far as interior space watch as Wolverine agonizes over not being able to stop poison from slowly killing of Mariko Wolverine's love, even
though he posses a healing factor that could easily cured it in himself an then being asked by Mariko to give here an honorable quick death,
rather then be tortured by the poison that ravages through her body. thats real agony, a selfish man couldn't give themselves to do it, but a man that honors the Japanese code of the samurai and his loves dying words honored her wishes. How about in the classic Wolverine-Jean Grey-Cyclops love triangle -- Wolverines inability to woo Jean Grey. Wolverine is not a "badass" thats too simple he is more complex then that as stated
earlier.

Wolverine talks like a kid acting tough. “I’m not good for nothing but killing” is something Wolverine might say, but not in a moment of
introversion. Instead, he’d say it with a tough demeanor, revealing nothing more than his own shallow bravado mixed with a seasoning of self-
pity. This is a guy who routinely says things as stupid as the Thing’s “it’s clobbering time” but who takes these ridiculous expressions
seriously. He’s got the emotional maturity of a high school kid, and an immature one at that. Like an adolescent, he thinks tough guys say this
kind of ****. dfh tough guys know that toughness is communicated through actions, through self-control as well as through rage. Even the women in Frank Miller’s Sin City are tougher than Wolverine. Anyone over 17 is tougher than Wolverine. He’s the poster child for arrested development.
He’s got all the complexity of hard rock music, of prancing in leather and thinking that acting tough makes you a badass. He’s a poseur, and not
a very good one at that.

This statement is really off and nothing but ranting or trolling, a lot of false statements. Most comic characters have cheesy sayings. Wolverine
proves he is pretty tough since he communicates his toughness by fighting the fiercest and dangerous characters in the MU, yet in other times he restrains for the sake of the goal or mission, but if he is pushed hard enough he uses his raw rage to defeat his foe. I pretty sure wolverine
could take the sin city girls and a couple of 17 year olds all at once, but as stated earlier the statements here are just rants. poseurs pose they don't fight the good fight.

If I’m going to read a tough guy, I’ll read the Punisher. I don’t need the claws. I certainly don’t need the ridiculous healing factor.
The Punisher’s a badass but he’s a badass you can relate to. He can’t hide behind his healing factor. He’s not a super-hero. He had a bad day,
like the Joker, and his solution to his rage at what humans are capable of doing to each other is to eradicate as many bad guys as he can from
the face of the Earth. And he does so with guns, like real people do, not with claws. He’s a ****ed-up Vietnam vet, killing vicious criminals
instead of robbing banks for that old high he got in war. He’s not the deepest character, to be sure, but he’s a better badass than the whiny,
bragging Wolverine. Wolverine belongs with villains like Juggernaut, ridiculous monstrosities who can withstand his claws and unwillingness to
control himself and his “berserker barrages.” The Punisher belongs with mobsters, with the mundane child molesters of the world. He’s not
Rorschach, but he’s cut of that cloth. Now, there’s a badass with depth. Wolverine, on the other hand...
Punisher is cool, i agree, but you did state that wolverine and punisher are very similar, but wolverine has a healing factor and claws and
punisher does not. punisher has guns, but Wolverine chooses the harder path of up close and personal. so one charter is ranged and the other is
hand to hand, yet to you one is "badass" and the other a poseur...hhmmm

None of this addresses, of course, the remarkable inconsistencies of Wolverine’s character. He’s a loner who spends all his time with the
X-Men. If Wolverine has a problem with Weapon X’s abuse of him, why does he not have a problem with Professor X’s agenda? Sometimes, Wolverine’s
depicted as killing civilians in bar fight. Other times, he has the non-killing attitudes of the X-Men, even against the vicious killers that the
Punisher greets with a bullet to the brain. He stops short of killing mass murderers, but has left a string of dead drunken brawlers across the
United States and Canada. Yeah, great guy.
Wolverine has many solo adventures and is a loner in the sense that he really doesn't fit in with the crowd, kinda the anti-social that kinda
desires for a family, and he has found that family in the x-men its the closest he got to a family. as far as going from bar to bar killing people
i haven't seen that, i have seen some bar fights, but not "a string of dead drunken brawlers across the United States and Canada" I think you need
to actually read more

Not to mention the whole love triangle with Cyclops and Jean Grey. I mean, there’s a reason Jean Grey chose Cyclops over Wolvie. Cyclops
is an introvert, a thinker. Wolverine is the extrovert, the unexamined adolescent. Okay, we know the average comics reader is a little more nerdy than the average Joe. A little more thoughtful. Probably a little more introverted. Why identify with Wolverine? Granted, Cyclops doesn’t have a
lot of interiority either, but he’s certainly a lot closer to the stereotypical comics reader than Wolverine is. It’s argued that comics readers
see super-heroes as power fantasies: is Wolverine, then, the fantasy of being the high school jock instead of the high school nerd? Doesn’t the
love of Wolverine by thoughtful, introverted readers express a kind of self-hatred? A wish that they could be a badass, perhaps? And a stupid,
bragging, unexamined badass at that? A secret desire to be -- dare I say it? -- Flash Thompson?

comics have a wide range of fans, if you haven't noticed comics stories are being made into novels, video games, movies, etc. there is also many
that collect for the appreciation of the art. So if comics are making money in all these arenas then, everyone is a nerd or comics are for
everyone. so if someone watched rocky they must want to be a boxer, or if you read spawn i desire to be hell spawn, i think you need to leave the
psychology out of this.

Of course, there’s also that awful sound effect. I mean, really. Snikt! Snikt? What the **** is that? Have you ever heard something make that sound in your life? No, but it sounds cool -- in a thoughtless, adolescent kind of way.

swords make that sound when they are pulled from there sheath

Any character can be good if written properly. Here’s a guy who, when he extends his claws, they rip holes through his skin. He’s so used to pain
that writers and artists don’t even note that pain in the comics when his claws come out. But he feels it. Now, if you wanted to do this right,
you’d have a psychotic Wolverine. A guy who can’t use his powers without pain, who’s not really good for anything but killing.

this is wolverine in part, now you are understanding him, but wolverine disciplines himself to keep the beast contained and hold his humanity together so he doesn't just become a killer, he fights himself this way ever time he fights, talk about agony

He should be ****ed up, in his own little world. He enjoys the rip of his claws through his skin. He likes it enough to do it at almost any opportunity. It
makes him, deadened to sensation through experience, feel alive in some small way. He’s an addict. He craves combat. He craves feeling alive. No
wonder he kills guys in bars but not villains who rend him limb from limb. Make Wolverine a psychotic who goes to S&M clubs and gets torn to
ribbons every night -- a guy who can’t come unless half his body is on fire and literally shredded. He’s not good for anything else, and he’s
gone down a path of needing to be hurt more and more to produce that same adrenaline rush.
He’s not in the X-Men for a social outlet -- or because, after seeing everything he’s seen of the world, he believes in Xavier’s dream. No, he’s
there to pick up chicks. Then he gets the sexy, spandex-wearing teenage new recruit back to his room, where she’s thinking she’s going to have
sex with Wolverine -- Mr. Badass to her, because she’s 17 and falls for that kind of bragging thoughtlessness, which is probably why he does it
in the first place, outside of his own arrested development. She gets back to his room at the X-mansion, so convenient for such liaisons, and he
closes the door. She expects him to be all over her, to take her like the tough man he is. But he begs her to tie him up and to cut him with
knives, to set him on fire, to shoot him over and over again. She does so, but it does nothing for her. So much for the tough Wolverine, she
thinks.
wolverine is not emo

That’s my Epic Comics proposal, Mr. Jemas. A one-shot mature readers book. And the best Wolverine story ever written.
Because, you know, there haven’t been many good ones.
I wouldn't mind a max title for Wolverine, but it sounds like you want a sex book featuring self mutilation, bondage, child molestation and murder. Hardly an original idea and not one that fits the character, marvel or comics. I think a very small portion of the porn industry might like it I think there called snuff films. as far and good stories there are tons of good wolverine stories out there if you read, just ask a Wolverine fan I happen to be one, so I would say Wolverine #75 although i would say you would have to know the characters well to get the true emotional roller coaster that book was, but ORIGIN was good, Wolverine 145, 166, 175, 176. currently "old man Logan" is great. i hope this helps you understand the other side of this issue.
 
foxx5, quite a valid argument.

I like Wolverine, not because he is a "bad ass" but because of everything that comes with that "bad ass" tag.

On the surface he is just a mean, Clint Eastwood type nut case. But if you scratch the surface, delve into Wolverines psyche you will see there is much more to him than that. As stated before, the guy is pretty much indestructable, which could make him shallow and boring. But because he actually still feels the pain it gives him a human quality.

Then you have his fatherly instincts over kids like Kitty Pryde and Jubilee, he'd do anything, absolutely anything to protect them. And he has shown this many times.

This is a guy who is like 100 years old. 100 years of torture and bad luck. You can't blame him for being a bit abrasive and cold really, think of all the **** he has been through. But even though he has those feelings, he bottles them up for the greater good. And bottling emotions up is a bad thing, but he knows he must do it, he knows he must sacrifice his own opportunities at a good life for those of others. That's what makes a real hero IMO. He's not perfect, he knows he is not. But he doesn't let that phase him when he has a job to do.
 

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