• Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version.
  • Super Maintenance

    Xenforo Cloud upgraded our forum to XenForo version 2.3.4. This update has created styling issues to our current templates.

    Starting January 9th, site maintenance is ongoing until further notice, but please report any other issues you may experience so we can look into.

    We apologize for the inconvenience.

  • X/Twitter

    Due to recent news involving X, formerly Twitter and its owner, the staff of SuperHeroHype have decided it would be best to no longer allow links on the board. Starting January 31st, users will no longer be able to post direct links to X on this site, however screenshots will still be allowed as long as they follow Hype rules and guidelines.

    We apologize for any inconvenience.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Why is SHIELD even being rebuilt?

We also don't know if SHIELD knows what a Kree is or if they even know it came from space. Which is actually my biggest complaint with the ending, they built that up so much throughout the season only to not even address it.
 
It's called a cliffhanger, dude. They didn't address it because they're saving it for the following season.
 
They built up the entire first season on the mystery behind Coulson's resurrection, more particularly to Coulson confronting Fury about it, only to never address it. All that buildup over how he came back only to get a quick in-a-nutshell explanation about how they brought him back because "[he's] the heart of SHIELD". Which is fine, but that still doesn't answer all the other questions that come with the mystery. We know why they brought him back, but don't know how. How did that blue alien get there? Do they even know it's an alien? How did they figure out they could cure people with its blood?

I'm not expecting all the answers or for Fury to even know what it is, but we should have at least gotten an explanation from Fury's point of view. "In 1961, our scientists spotted a meteor shower and something hit the Earth. We got there and found this blue creature, then discovered we could use its blood for x and y." Something like that would have been enough.

At the very least, Coulson should have confronted Fury about what that thing was. It felt very out of character for him for him to not do that when his whole character arc this season was "no more secrets" and has a protege injected with the same formula! So I totally don't buy he wouldn't have at least asked Fury, even if he didn't give him an answer.

It came off as Marvel saying "Well we don't want to address the Kree in any way yet so we'll just dumb down Coulson a bit for this scene", even though that's the one scene they've been building towards the most since the start. And from the way the dialogue is played in that scene, it feels like they took measures to trick viewers into not questioning it. "I brought you back because you were the heart of SHIELD, and now you will be the head." Notice the conversation shifts instantly from one topic to another. Before people can even make up their minds on the first, their brains have already proceeded to the idea of Coulson rebuilding SHIELD and Season 2. If there was more of a pause in between, I think more people would have questioned it.

By the time we got those Skrull symbols at the end, I just couldn't care anymore. I lost faith in their ability to construct a solid mystery story around Coulson's character. The Clairvoyant mystery was well done and tied into the MCU nicely, but they totally blew all the hype building towards Coulson confronting Fury. Which sucks since they totally sold me with the idea in the second half. Before release, I had mixed feelings on bringing Coulson back. Then in the first half, I wasn't sure if the show merited teasing the process of his resurrection so much. Then in the second half and up till the finale, I totally bought it due to how complex it became.
 
SHIELD is needed to protect from threats that govenment organization cannot handle.......not everyone in SHIELD is HYDRA so Coulson want to show the world there are still some good people that trying to stop the threats that remains

But SHIELD is a government organization.

Not everyone who worked for SHIELD was HYDRA, and maybe the public realize that and maybe they don't, but if they don't, what's it matter?

If the public learns that SHIELD continues on, in defiance of the law, acting without any oversight or accountability, will that change their mind?

The only reason SHIELD is getting rebuilt is so that the show can continue to be produced and aired. Within the show, they come across as a pathetic bunch who can't let go.
 
Last edited:
Personally, I feel like it would have been interesting to see Coulson receiving orders from headquarters to get involved in on the hunt for Captain America, thus having Coulson question SHIELD even more as it would put him in a situation where he needs to figure out as to whether he'll disobey the direct order or pursue his childhood hero.


But yeah, I just feel like the show has a bad tendency to undermine major things that take place within the films.

I mean so far, the only excuse that the show's runners have come up with for why Coulson was brought back was because Fury wanted to revive someone that he could trust.

Story wise, it was rather a weak reason and it really just makes the whole situation look like Marvel just brought coulson back out of fan service.

Coulson's death was meant to serve a big purpose in the events of "The Avengers" and he's just brought back later as if nothing happened.

They make Coulson act as if the Avengers don't even exist and that SHIELD was the only means of protecting people worldwide from Hydra.

Not to mention, they really don't portray Captain America's decision to not salvage SHIELD (like Fury had originally wanted to) into being a bad one as we get to see so many people look devastated or hunted down as a result of Steve's actions, which was supposed to come off as a noble one.
 
Yeah, Marvel has a problem with narrative consistency. It isn't just this show, either.

Regarding Steve, I'm kind of unsure on the topic. While SHIELD personnel did get screwed over, SHIELD probably had to go. Coulson's plight honestly feel like his own drama. Maria and Sharon manage to get jobs, and while Maria (and presumably Sharon) is still having a bit of a hard time, that's part of life.

And really, the dissolution of SHIELD didn't feel like a noble thing that Steve did. It was his idea, but Maria and Natasha were onboard, and the actual act of leaking the information and dismantling SHIELD was carried out by Natasha. The dissolution of SHIELD is much more a part of Natasha's arc than it is Steve's, and it is her will to press on with leaking the information that is framed as noble.
 
Think about what has been announced that will be a movie. Inhumans, Celestials, are old races too. The storyline behind some of the Kree, Inhumans, Eternals can be easily interweaved in the MCU. That Kree body Fury had may have been "Fresher" TIME wise, than Odin first bringing the cube to earth, but it doesn't mean the Kree haven't been coming here for Longer than the Asgardan's Visits
 
And finally, I get the whole "need to be stealthy" part, but it's not like Coulson couldn't do that if he joined with Rogers and company at Avengers tower.

Because there's a huge difference between six covert operatives and five hundred covert operatives.
 
Yeah, Marvel has a problem with narrative consistency. It isn't just this show, either.

Regarding Steve, I'm kind of unsure on the topic. While SHIELD personnel did get screwed over, SHIELD probably had to go. Coulson's plight honestly feel like his own drama. Maria and Sharon manage to get jobs, and while Maria (and presumably Sharon) is still having a bit of a hard time, that's part of life.

And really, the dissolution of SHIELD didn't feel like a noble thing that Steve did. It was his idea, but Maria and Natasha were onboard, and the actual act of leaking the information and dismantling SHIELD was carried out by Natasha. The dissolution of SHIELD is much more a part of Natasha's arc than it is Steve's, and it is her will to press on with leaking the information that is framed as noble.

It's times like this where I wish we could just get ONE scene with Phil and Steve or Natasha, after the events of TWS, just to see on how Phil would talk with them when he finds out that taking down SHIELD was their idea.

TWS made it seem like SHIELD, was essentially Hydra in disguise....yet in the TV Series, we see that there was A LOT more honest SHIELD agents out there than the films show, thus making Steve's (and Widow's) actions somewhat morally ambiguous and makes a person ask, was taking down SHIELD as well really the smartest idea after all? Wouldn't it have been better to go with Fury's plan on trying to salvage SHIELD afterwards?
 
Not really. I never got the sense that the majority of SHIELD agents were HYDRA. Some of them were, and some in high-ranking positions, but perhaps only a limited number overall. Heck even Cap doesn't believe that all of SHIELD is corrupt since he gives his big "stand and fight with me" speech to SHIELD. And the once he reveals HYDRA's infiltration, SHIELD essentially goes to war with itself, with the good agents fighting the HYDRA ones. I feel like the government's actions on the show are a blatant case of overreacting. It's a case of " everyone's guilty until proven innocent" when the law is supposed to work the exact opposite way in the US.
 
On top of that, good or bad agents are irrelevant due to the HYDRA having corrupted the SHIELD system as a whole to the point even non-HYDRA agents would still unquestionably use their tactics. That was Cap's entire reasoning for destroying SHIELD and a big thematic part of TWS. Ultimately it didn't matter because SHIELD's become so gray-shaded even the likes of Fury were still comfortable with launching the Helicarriers that would infringe on everyone's rights.

It was a big theme in the show as well. Coulson's trust towards the system is constantly challenged and gradually crushed the more he learns about it and sees its similarities to Centipede (which, let's face it, it was a temporary replacement for HYDRA production-wise), with the HYDRA reveal being the final drop in the bucket.

Ultimately, Cap made the right decision. The whole system had to go down not just because of HYDRA, but because HYDRA has radically modified it so much since its inception. Sure this means some agents have to face the music till proven innocent but as Cap told them, the price of freedom is high. So ultimately they all willingly payed that price in the name of freedom.

Also, the problem with SHIELD agents being hunted down wasn't so much they're guilty till proven innocent - if they're innocent, they have nothing to worry about - but that their temporary imprisonment would help Garrett get away. Once Garrett was caught, that wouldn't have been a problem anymore. Except now they have another reason to stay covert.
 
Last edited:
See I don't think that it's about Garrett specifically. The show states that ALL of SHIELD has been declared a terrorist organization and that ALL SHIELD personal are automatically considered to be HYDRA agents until proven otherwise and are to be detained. It's not limited to Coulson and his team. So you have people who are assumed guilty and locked up, contrary to how the legal system is supposed to work, on vague suspicion that they MIGHT be bad guys. Even if it's only temporary, it's still wrong. And it's unclear how much the outside world even knows about Garrett. It's more that they fear that there's still large-scale HYDRA infiltrations going on, as opposed to one guy and his relatively small band of followers. And the Hellicarriers thing from TWS is still a grey area because it's essentially serving the same function that drone strikes do in the real world right now, only on a much bigger scale.
 
And yet Sharon and Hill and Cap were sent on their way after being cleared. They might be monitored but they weren't tossed in jail just because. And there were plenty of good Shield agents left when Coulson's team bolted that choose to give themselves in.

Thing is, they had to disown SHIELD and quit. Coulson's team remained on the radar because they took their fancy SHIELD tech and went on their way like nothing was wrong, still trying to run around solving problems and acting like they owned the place like they always did, acting like the Hydra thing was so big deal and the world should just blindly still trust them because.

And that's not how it works.

And we see why that mindset was wrong when they lead Ward straight to Providence and got Koenig killed and handed Garrett all their data on a platter, all because they were acting like Hydra didn't effect them and was just something that happened to "Those other SHIELD guys" because surprise, Ward was in on it too, just the kind of example of how deep the Hydra problem was when you had guys like Ward risking certain death and undermining his own side to get people to trust him.

Who's to say all those nice and good SHIELD agents we saw in the first half of the show weren't like Sitwell or Ward, very convincing phonies, loyal to the Hydra cause.
 
See I don't think that it's about Garrett specifically. The show states that ALL of SHIELD has been declared a terrorist organization and that ALL SHIELD personal are automatically considered to be HYDRA agents until proven otherwise and are to be detained. It's not limited to Coulson and his team. So you have people who are assumed guilty and locked up, contrary to how the legal system is supposed to work, on vague suspicion that they MIGHT be bad guys. Even if it's only temporary, it's still wrong. And it's unclear how much the outside world even knows about Garrett. It's more that they fear that there's still large-scale HYDRA infiltrations going on, as opposed to one guy and his relatively small band of followers. And the Hellicarriers thing from TWS is still a grey area because it's essentially serving the same function that drone strikes do in the real world right now, only on a much bigger scale.

It's not like that would happen in real life. Where would they send them, Cuba?
 
They built up the entire first season on the mystery behind Coulson's resurrection, more particularly to Coulson confronting Fury about it, only to never address it. All that buildup over how he came back only to get a quick in-a-nutshell explanation about how they brought him back because "[he's] the heart of SHIELD". Which is fine, but that still doesn't answer all the other questions that come with the mystery. We know why they brought him back, but don't know how. How did that blue alien get there? Do they even know it's an alien? How did they figure out they could cure people with its blood?

I'm not expecting all the answers or for Fury to even know what it is, but we should have at least gotten an explanation from Fury's point of view. "In 1961, our scientists spotted a meteor shower and something hit the Earth. We got there and found this blue creature, then discovered we could use its blood for x and y." Something like that would have been enough.

At the very least, Coulson should have confronted Fury about what that thing was. It felt very out of character for him for him to not do that when his whole character arc this season was "no more secrets" and has a protege injected with the same formula! So I totally don't buy he wouldn't have at least asked Fury, even if he didn't give him an answer.

It came off as Marvel saying "Well we don't want to address the Kree in any way yet so we'll just dumb down Coulson a bit for this scene", even though that's the one scene they've been building towards the most since the start. And from the way the dialogue is played in that scene, it feels like they took measures to trick viewers into not questioning it. "I brought you back because you were the heart of SHIELD, and now you will be the head." Notice the conversation shifts instantly from one topic to another. Before people can even make up their minds on the first, their brains have already proceeded to the idea of Coulson rebuilding SHIELD and Season 2. If there was more of a pause in between, I think more people would have questioned it.

By the time we got those Skrull symbols at the end, I just couldn't care anymore. I lost faith in their ability to construct a solid mystery story around Coulson's character. The Clairvoyant mystery was well done and tied into the MCU nicely, but they totally blew all the hype building towards Coulson confronting Fury. Which sucks since they totally sold me with the idea in the second half. Before release, I had mixed feelings on bringing Coulson back. Then in the first half, I wasn't sure if the show merited teasing the process of his resurrection so much. Then in the second half and up till the finale, I totally bought it due to how complex it became.

They couldn't go into what the alien was until GotG came out. Just as they couldn't mention Hydra til CATWS came out.
Don't expect anyone to shrink any mad robots in season 2. At least not the first half.
 
They couldn't go into what the alien was until GotG came out. Just as they couldn't mention Hydra til CATWS came out.
Don't expect anyone to shrink any mad robots in season 2. At least not the first half.

Already addressed that in the same post you're quoting.

I'm not expecting all the answers or for Fury to even know what it is, but we should have at least gotten an explanation from Fury's point of view. "In 1961, our scientists spotted a meteor shower and something hit the Earth. We got there and found this blue creature, then discovered we could use its blood for x and y." Something like that would have been enough.

At the very least, Coulson should have confronted Fury about what that thing was. It felt very out of character for him to not do that when his whole character arc this season was "no more secrets" and has a protege injected with the same formula! So I totally don't buy he wouldn't have at least asked Fury, even if he didn't give him an answer.

It came off as Marvel saying "Well we don't want to address the Kree in any way yet so we'll just dumb down Coulson a bit for this scene", even though that's the one scene they've been building towards the most since the start.
 
Already addressed that in the same post you're quoting.

There might be a good reason not to mention it. Was it one of the monsters looking for Skye? If it was then that's part of a story line blown.

I agree with you there were many problems with the first season. Hopefully they can pull it all together for season 2.
 
Also, the problem with SHIELD agents being hunted down wasn't so much they're guilty till proven innocent - if they're innocent, they have nothing to worry about - but that their temporary imprisonment would help Garrett get away. Once Garrett was caught, that wouldn't have been a problem anymore. Except now they have another reason to stay covert.

I don't think that was really it thinking about it again. Coulson decided to operate rogue get everyone into the plane and refuse to turn in when he thought Garrett was done and on his way to being locked up forever. They didn't find out about Ward until later.

Coulson even expressed disapointment at the agents there who opted to surrender. Then again he also adamantly refused to allow anyone other than his team to come with them and gave Triplett a real hard time about it, so I don't think he was supposed to be shown to have been acting rationally there.
 
Personally, I feel like it would have been interesting to see Coulson receiving orders from headquarters to get involved in on the hunt for Captain America, thus having Coulson question SHIELD even more as it would put him in a situation where he needs to figure out as to whether he'll disobey the direct order or pursue his childhood hero.

that would have been interesting alright.
 
And yet Sharon and Hill and Cap were sent on their way after being cleared. They might be monitored but they weren't tossed in jail just because. And there were plenty of good Shield agents left when Coulson's team bolted that choose to give themselves in.

Thing is, they had to disown SHIELD and quit. Coulson's team remained on the radar because they took their fancy SHIELD tech and went on their way like nothing was wrong, still trying to run around solving problems and acting like they owned the place like they always did, acting like the Hydra thing was so big deal and the world should just blindly still trust them because.

And that's not how it works.

And we see why that mindset was wrong when they lead Ward straight to Providence and got Koenig killed and handed Garrett all their data on a platter, all because they were acting like Hydra didn't effect them and was just something that happened to "Those other SHIELD guys" because surprise, Ward was in on it too, just the kind of example of how deep the Hydra problem was when you had guys like Ward risking certain death and undermining his own side to get people to trust him.

Who's to say all those nice and good SHIELD agents we saw in the first half of the show weren't like Sitwell or Ward, very convincing phonies, loyal to the Hydra cause.


there was a power grab in the organization. they could have sat back but that would have meant all that tech going to hydra.
 
Well, I just hope that by Season's end, we'll get a more clearer answer as to whether Cap and Widow taking down SHIELD was the right choice in the end as opposed to salvaging it like Fury had wanted to do.
 
I'm sure team Cap made the right call.

Insight was HYDRA's endgame. If it failed, the rest of HYDRA would notice, and they would have acted accordingly, either by going on the counterattack or by going into hiding. Taking down SHIELD exposed HYDRA and would lead to intelligence agencies around the world hunting them as well.

But good people had to pay the price, such as in all wars. That in itself doesn't mean Team Cap did something bad.

However, it does bug me that the CATWS didn't really show that. The movie, and audience, much of fandom included, consider the only price being paid by Natasha.

Which eats my craw quite a bit.

Anyway, I don't need them showing that Cap was wrong, but I'm hoping the repercussion aren't forgotten in Cap3.
 
It wasn't Captain America's story, so they didn't show it. That's what this show is for.
 
Well, I just hope that by Season's end, we'll get a more clearer answer as to whether Cap and Widow taking down SHIELD was the right choice in the end as opposed to salvaging it like Fury had wanted to do.

Agent Tripplett: "We are not Hydra, we are Agents of SHIELD."
Gen. Talbot: "Well, right now to the rest of the world, that's the same thing."

If Cap had not made the decision to dissolve SHIELD, the world would have made it for him.
 
As we saw in Cap 2, Hydra infiltrated more than just SHIELD as shown by Senator Stern, so why is ONLY SHIELD getting the blame?
That's my biggest issue with this.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"