Why no love for the Kingpin?

[The PhantaZm]

In the latest issue of wizard they rank the top 100 villains and Wilson Fisk doesn't even get an honorable mention? Why? IMO the Kingpin ranks up there with Micheal Corleone as one of the greatest fictional crime bosses. He should atleast be in the top 5. Hes definitely better than Lex Luthor.

And on top of that theres a quote in there from artist Ed McGuiness where he says he doesn't like daredevil for this reason: "I think the villain makes the hero. I never really saw any strong villains for him." I'm assuming hes never heard of the kingpin otherwise that comment is absurd.

 

[Ben Urich]

In the latest issue of wizard they rank the top 100 villains and Wilson Fisk doesn't even get an honorable mention?

The ****?

Hes definitely better than Lex Luthor.

Goddamn I wish I had the gif of Luthor screaming WRONG! from the trailer to post here....

And on top of that theres a quote in there from artist Ed McGuiness where he says he doesn't like daredevil for this reason: "I think the villain makes the hero. I never really saw any strong villains for him."

Good. More reason for me to hate that miserable ****.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

DareDevil actually for my money has the best rogues gallery, in fact its the absurdity of some of his foes (like the Owl, Stiltman, Purple Man) that have made them into great characters. Since they could not wow people with their gimmicks, unlike Batman rogues, very unique and distinctive personalities were created for them...and they became these very realistic, gritty and somewhat funny characters. (I especially like Bushwhacker, Bullet, Owl, Purple Man, Stiltman, Bullseye, Mr Fear and Gladiator)

Kingpin is definitely a great villian, not up their with film greats or literary greats...but great comic characters. Especially with the Frank Miller revitalization.

When Kingpin first debut he was about as silly as Rhino. He'd even charge into battle with Spider-Man as if he were any other foe. However Frank Miller turned him into a business man who used economics and smear tactics to deal with the likes of DD and Spidey. He'd ruin their lives rather than outirght kill them, and actually succeeded a many an occasion...making him all the more of a great villian. Everyone remembers the brillance that is Born Again.

 

[Not Jake]

Fisk is definitely a great baddie


but I wish Norman Osborn would become the kingpin, kind of back off from the whole ruin-spidey's-life thing and get back to real crime

 

[The PhantaZm]

DareDevil actually for my money has the best rogues gallery, in fact its the absurdity of some of his foes (like the Owl, Stiltman, Purple Man) that have made them into great characters. Since they could not wow people with their gimmicks, unlike Batman rogues, very unique and distinctive personalities were created for them...and they became these very realistic, gritty and somewhat funny characters. (I especially like Bushwhacker, Bullet, Owl, Purple Man, Stiltman, Bullseye, Mr Fear and Gladiator)

Batman is really the only superhero with a solid rogues gallery. Who else has that many great villains? Definitely not Superman or Spidey. All a hero needs is one or two really great villains. Daredevil has that - Kingpin and Bullseye. (Typhoid Mary isn't that bad either.)

Kingpin is definitely a great villian, not up their with film greats or literary greats...but great comic characters. Especially with the Frank Miller revitalization.

When Kingpin first debut he was about as silly as Rhino. He'd even charge into battle with Spider-Man as if he were any other foe. However Frank Miller turned him into a business man who used economics and smear tactics to deal with the likes of DD and Spidey. He'd ruin their lives rather than outirght kill them, and actually succeeded a many an occasion...making him all the more of a great villian. Everyone remembers the brillance that is Born Again.

The book that confirmed for me that Kingpin is one of the greatest comic book characters ever would have to be the Tangled Web of Spiderman issue featuring the Kingpin. I like how omniprescent the character is, he doesn't even commit crimes, you never see him touching a weapon, he just makes a phone call and your family is dead. That kind of hands off approach is very rare for villains in the comic book world.

 

[Elijya]

there were ALL sorts of things wrong with that list. I mean, Biff from Back to the Future beat Herr Starr? That's... That's just criminal



and as to McGuiness's feelings on DD, that's just his opinion. He didn't say "Daredevil is the suxors and only dweebs like him!" He just said Daredevil didn't really appeal to him.

 

[Vanguard07]

I've always liked Daredevil but i havent followed his comics much. I'm just really getting back into them with the whole prison thing.

Also Kingpin was pretty cool but he was never very well suited to be a Spiderman villain. Especially not when spidey got older and strong enough to KO him in a move.

But as a villain for DD or a main target for Punisher i always liked him.

 

[Elijya]

vanguard, do not cheat yourself by skipping over the past 5 years of DD. If you like what's going on with the book right now, it's just as good as everything that came before it

 

[KevanG]

Honestly ever since I read about the Kingpig in an old What the? comic, I just can't take him seriously :P The DD movie did alright but still it didn't help much, and I know I'll get yelled at for that but whatever I know he's been a DD problem since he started, but really spidey beat him so many times that he just doen't seem up to snuff anymore. I can see how his connections and everything can make him feared and I saw what he did to DD when he found out his secret ID (born again storyline) I just find that all his best stories are behind him.

 

[Artistsean]

I would like to see a match in Wizard (when they do those versus battles) or something of Lex Luther versus Kingpin. They would both just stand there trying to prove he is smarter than the other. In hand to hand combat Kingpin would win, but I think Luther is way smarter.

 

[Elijya]

well, duh, he builds suits of armor, giant robots, and runs a multi billion dollar global corporation. Kingpin runs in charge of organized crime. I don't see why you'd even think to compare the two.

Kevan - what was the last Kingpin story you read?

 

[Vanguard07]

vanguard, do not cheat yourself by skipping over the past 5 years of DD. If you like what's going on with the book right now, it's just as good as everything that came before it

I believe it. DD just wasnt on my list before now because I only had so much money and it wasnt my highest priority. It got put back on cause I had a little cash left over after picking up my regulars one week and DD, who I liked was just starting a new arc. I did the same thing with Hulk at the beginning of the arc before Planet Hulk.

I fully intend to keep following DD cause I'm a big fan but I dont really feel any need to pick up what I missed. I'm sure it was good and all but I'd rather just wait for new great arcs than go through the hassle of hunting down back issues.

 

[Elijya]

you could get the trades

 

[Vanguard07]

Yeah. Maybe I will eventually. I'm not really in any hurry though. I'm more interested in not missing any NEW good stuff. That way the number of comics I need to pick up doesnt keep growing and I can work away at it at my leisure.

 

[Elijya]

eh, new and old, all the same. They're all still either good reads or bad reads whether they came out yesterday or 20 years ago

 

[Marcdachamp]

Wow, I didn't even notice the lack of Kingpin. Incredible injustice.

 

[Elijya]

seeing how high Green Goblin was on that list, I further realize how incredibly overrated he is. Luthor, too.

 

[UK_Stu]

Batman is really the only superhero with a solid rogues gallery. Who else has that many great villains? Definitely not Superman or Spidey. All a hero needs is one or two really great villains. Daredevil has that - Kingpin and Bullseye. (Typhoid Mary isn't that bad either.)

What are you talking about??? Granted Batman's rogues are top notch, but Spider-man has one of the best rogue galleries in comicdom. What about Doctor Octopus, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Venom, Mysterio, Electro etc etc. And Kingpin started originally as a Spider-man rogue.

Plus The Flash's rogue gallery is great too

 

[Elijya]

the problem with Spider-Mans rogues gallery is while they're some fun characters, they are for the most part, all just street thugs, with very little depth or character to them.

Batman's villains, on the other hand, are all incredibly tragic and iconic characters. If you wanted, you could tell the story of most Batman villains set in any era of history and it would work, because the ideas behind them, what makes them who they are, are inherently human. Their defining characteristics are all psychological.

Spider-Mans villains, again, are thugs. Hey, alot of them got some really cool powers. But can you tell me what makes, say, Electro tick? Is there anything that makes the Rhino a fascinating character to read about, if he's not smashing things up? Can you tell me in what way Sandman is any different from Hydroman, aside from their powers? Are any of these guys really much more than blue collar criminals, always either for hire or just out to steal? They remind me of the cliche vaudeville villains with the black and white stripped shirts and masks. "Yup, just robbing this bank, all in a days work"

(and yes, there are exceptions to everything I said, but I'm speaking in general)

 

[UK_Stu]

the problem with Spider-Mans rogues gallery is while they're some fun characters, they are for the most part, all just street thugs, with very little depth or character to them.

Batman's villains, on the other hand, are all incredibly tragic and iconic characters. If you wanted, you could tell the story of most Batman villains set in any era of history and it would work, because the ideas behind them, what makes them who they are, are inherently human. Their defining characteristics are all psychological.

Spider-Mans villains, again, are thugs. Hey, alot of them got some really cool powers. But can you tell me what makes, say, Electro tick? Is there anything that makes the Rhino a fascinating character to read about, if he's not smashing things up? Can you tell me in what way Sandman is any different from Hydroman, aside from their powers? Are any of these guys really much more than blue collar criminals, always either for hire or just out to steal? They remind me of the cliche vaudeville villains with the black and white stripped shirts and masks. "Yup, just robbing this bank, all in a days work"

(and yes, there are exceptions to everything I said, but I'm speaking in general)

Well I agree with your assessment of the Batman villains, His rogues gallery is one of the best, but I'm not sure I agree with you on the Spider-man bad guys.

I agree they aren't as iconic or tagic as Batman's rogues, but what are we measuring the value of the rogues on? powers? their character? Personality? How tragic and iconic they are? How memorable or recognisable they are?

Spider-man's rogues may be low level street thugs as you put it, but they are some of the most recognisable and popular villains in comics. If you asked the average guy in the street to name 5 Spidey villains they could, the same if it was batman, but ask them to name 5 Superman or Daredevil or Fantastic Four villains for that matter and they will struggle.

What the spidey villains lack in tragedy, they make up for it in Charisma and character. Plus its the sheer number of them. As I say this is my opinion, but I guess its all about you personally grade villains.

 

[The PhantaZm]

Honestly ever since I read about the Kingpig in an old What the? comic, I just can't take him seriously :P The DD movie did alright but still it didn't help much, and I know I'll get yelled at for that but whatever I know he's been a DD problem since he started, but really spidey beat him so many times that he just doen't seem up to snuff anymore. I can see how his connections and everything can make him feared and I saw what he did to DD when he found out his secret ID (born again storyline) I just find that all his best stories are behind him.

Spiderman doesn't beat kingpin, (unless your talking about some really old comics), he may put a dent in his wallet every now and then but unlike most bad guys, Kingpin isn't going in and out of jail every week. The guy is untouchable, The punisher couldn't stop him either.

 

[Elijya]

Well I agree with your assessment of the Batman villains, His rogues gallery is one of the best, but I'm not sure I agree with you on the Spider-man bad guys.

I agree they aren't as iconic or tagic as Batman's rogues, but what are we measuring the value of the rogues on? powers? their character? Personality? How tragic and iconic they are? How memorable or recognisable they are?

Spider-man's rogues may be low level street thugs as you put it, but they are some of the most recognisable and popular villains in comics. If you asked the average guy in the street to name 5 Spidey villains they could, the same if it was batman, but ask them to name 5 Superman or Daredevil or Fantastic Four villains for that matter and they will struggle.

What the spidey villains lack in tragedy, they make up for it in Charisma and character. Plus its the sheer number of them. As I say this is my opinion, but I guess its all about you personally grade villains.

I've never felt that popularity or being well known = good. Britney Spears is popular, but she probably can't even spell "Beethoven"

 

[Ben Urich]

the problem with Spider-Mans rogues gallery is while they're some fun characters, they are for the most part, all just street thugs, with very little depth or character to them.

And that is why, ladies and gentlemen, I ****ing hate reading Spider-Man comics.

seeing how high Green Goblin was on that list, I further realize how incredibly overrated he is. Luthor, too.

Dude.
This is like the first time we've ever disagreed on anything.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

You know what, McGuinness had a point. If it wasn't fer some of them appearin' in other books I'd NEVER know who DD's rogues were. Hey, Bru! Let's get them back into th' book 'cause I know you'll make me remember 'em!

 

[UK_Stu]

I've never felt that popularity or being well known = good. Britney Spears is popular, but she probably can't even spell "Beethoven"

well you're right about Britney, but I've never thought HP Sauce is right with bacon sarnies, but its only my opinion, many others will tell you its an ideal pairing. Its the same thing here, I think how 'good' a rogues gallery is will depend on the criteria you use to evaluate it. By your criteria they aren't by mine they are.