XtremelyBaneful
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alright, so I decided to make a thread about this since I feel like it is a common sentiment among us here in the SHH community. all rumors are pointing towards MCU SM4 being another high stakes, multiversal live action Spider-Verse just like NwH was. but I don't think that's the right direction to go. and let me tell you why.
apologies in advance for being so wordy. it took me a few days to write this OP in its entirety, and I didn't have time to write a tl;dr and just wanted to get this out there because of how much time it took to write. Sony, Marvel, Disney, if you're reading this, you can have this idea for free!
Reason #1: The narrative setup at the end of NwH
first of all from a narrative standpoint, Peter Parker in the MCU is getting a fresh start of being entirely on his own as a superhero in New York City since 2016 (if that's when Cap3 takes place). he made his own suit, he's back to making his own webshooters, and he's operating as a sole vigilante in New York City.
so with a Peter Parker who is now an adult, but still a very young adult at that, he's gonna get the full swing (no pun intended) of the great responsibility that comes with great power.
Reason #2: A team-up with Daredevil WILL make a lot of money
but who else operates as a sole vigilante in New York City? Matt Murdock! Who Peter himself was acquainted with in NwH for acquitting him of the murder of Mysterio. But our very own Daredevil doesn't know that, because he's part of the earth's population that completely forgot who Peter Parker is. But he does know that there is another vigilante in New York, Spider-Man. I think this would be the perfect opportunity for them to take inspiration from the 90s cartoon, and have these two heroes be adversaries at first, and then realize that they are on the same side.
Matt may need to get reacquainted with Peter, but Peter never knew Matt was also a superhero. All he knew was that Matt's a really good lawyer. so the irony of them not knowing each other's double lives, I think they should incorporate that. it's a comical irony. And we all know how popular Netflix's Daredevil series was, right? It was one of Netflix's biggest hits for a while back in the day. And I remember also back in the day how naysayers were saying that Daredevil just isn't canon to the MCU, blah blah blah...with the advent of Echo, I'm glad that (frankly stupid) argument has been put to rest.
I've touched upon this in a previous thread, but there was just as much hype back in 2021 to Matt Murdock's appearance in NwH as there was to the appearances of the legacy Spider-Men. the character was also a huge draw because of how he was getting teased as appearing in She-Hulk. and on top of that, as I've said in a previous thread, Sony knows this. they used a frame from Matt Murdock appearance as the thumbnail of the first 10 minutes of NwH on Youtube, which as of today has over 3 million views:
all this is to say, if Spider-Man 4 included Daredevil in a major role, there would certainly be an audience for it! it's something that's never been done before. I think hardcore fans and even casual fans alike, would love to see this live action team-up. I personally have been waiting for it for almost 10 years!
As a side note, Matt Murdock did have a cameo in Spider-Verse 1, so here is to hoping he may be involved in Spider-Verse 3. The Spot is also a villain of Daredevil's and the movie is called "Beyond" the Spider-Verse, so...
Reason #3: It's time to take (in Marvel's own words) street-level Thanos to the big screen
Brad Winderbaum who worked on Echo:
Now ain't that an enticing thought?! Speaking of Thanos, imagine how thought-provoking a conversation could have been between Wilson Fisk & Thanos! And Kingpin himself, Vincent D'Onofrio has been wanting to be onscreen with the MCU Spider-Man since his debut in Daredevil season 1 back in 2015. He's just as much of a villain of Spider-Man's as he is Daredevil's. Here's an fan art of him carrying a suitcase and a newspaper with "multiverse" written on it, in homage to the film Uncle Buck starring the late John Candy:
Back in 2021 when the rumors were up about him showing up in Hawkeye, there was also the rumor that D'Onofrio signed a gigantic contract with Disney too. I cannot locate the tweet right now unfortunately, otherwise I would post it too. The late Michael Clarke Duncan previously portrayed Kingpin in the first Daredevil movie, and while I liked his portrayal, it has been 20 years since we got a live action portrayal of Kingpin again on the big screen.
I've said before also, that if Kingpin would be the main villain Spider-Man 4, that he shouldn't be a one & done villain. The canceled Netflix version of the Daredevil show had a season 4 & 5 planned, and the fifth season was supposed to feature a final showdown between him & Daredevil.
Reason #4: Michael Mando is acting prowess waiting to happen
I can't be the only SHH member here who has also watched Better call Saul, right? There's even a 50 page long thread about it. Michael Mando was phenomenal in that show, and no doubt would give a memorable portrayal as the Scorpion - or even a villainous Venom down the line. I was hoping he would have been in NwH as a sixth villain, the one villain who is from the main universe who could lead the other villains since he's fought this Spider-Man before only without superpowers - but we have not seen him since the mid credit scene in Homecoming:
Bringing Mando back also gives the producers a chance to show the audience what a re-contextualized scene regarding Spider-Man in the past post Dr. Strange's spell is. Given how that scene is literally about Spider-Man's secret identity, with Toomes dishonestly denying knowledge of it.
He hasn't even been mentioned in the series or the MCU at all as far as I can recall. Is this just gonna remain a loose end of the franchise and we're never gonna see the character again? I personally think Scorpion should be a secondary villain working for Fisk. The latter can be hinted or just revealed that he's working on gathering a team of villains to take on Spider-Man. That would be comic accurate too since Kingpin is the ringleader of the Sinister Six in the comics, right?
Reason #5: The actors are getting older and older
In a conversation I had a previous thread, it was suggested that this supposed movie might be saved for MCU Spider-Man 5 in 2029. Charlie Cox will be 45 by then and definitely still young, but it just doesn't make sense narrative wise to have another high stakes Spider-Man movie after we got what was described as the Endgame of Spider-Man movies. Not that I am opposed to having another multiverse movie, but I will elaborate on that a little later. D'Onofrio will be 69 by then, and that would make this his first altercation with Spider-Man.
As I said, I don't want him to be a one & done villain. And of course there is the question of Tom Holland, who will be already in his 30s by that time. Obviously like Cox that's still very young, but at that point in time in his career - another thing brought up in other threads is that - he may not want to keep playing the character. Which may also work out for for the narrative, which I will get into now.
Reason #6: We can still have another live action Spider-Verse, but later
I've said this as well in other threads that it's not that I would mind a NwH 2.0, but just not as the direct sequel to it. Spider-Man 4 is presumably going to be the start of a new trilogy, right? I mentioned Spider-Verse 1 earlier when I said Matt Murdock cameo'd in it, well Spider-Verse 2 is also relevant to this conversation because that was the first time in 6 years we got to see the MCU Prowler...even if he wasn't in an MCU movie. And it was in a movie that starred MILES MORALES himself as the protagonist! As Tom Holland and subsequently his character Peter Parker continues to age - and with the advent of showing the Prowler in a cameo - indicates that there is a Miles somewhere out there in 616 Brooklyn.
Maybe Sony/Marvel/Disney are planning to include a (very) young Miles in Spider-Man 4 anyway, but regardless of that, if they go the route of this thread I think having Miles show up in this movie would be a good setup. Maybe the mid credit scene could be him getting bit, and Spider-Man 5 is a protege/mentor relationship between Peter and Miles, maybe that could be the film where Peter has the symbiote and part of his relationship with Miles is helping him get back to his senses and splitting with it.
And Spider-Man 6 could be the Sinister 6 movie that Sony has always wanted. The Kingpin can be the final threat as the seventh villain, and maybe Drew Goddard and the OG Netflix Daredevil team can incorporate elements of their original season 5 ending into it too.
Include the Prowler in the team, or don't - save him for a future Spider-Man series where Miles takes over as the protagonist. That could either entail 616 Peter Parker retiring, passing the baton to Miles, or just going part-time as Spider-Man while Miles goes full time. If the suits want to really take a risk, they could go ahead and have a villain kill 616 Peter. There was a rumor of Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man showing up in Dr. Strange 2 with Scarlet Witch killing him, but I consider that rumor to be 50% true since we got John Krasinski's Mr. Fantastic shown up and he was the one who ends up getting killed.
Fan posters of NwH also included Daredevil in costume, so Spider-Man 6 could be a massive team of Tom Holland Spider-Man, Miles Morales Spider-Man, Tobey Maguire Spider-Man, Andrew Garfield Spider-Man, Daredevil.... and, maybe Insomniac Spider-Man? His suit was in Spider-Verse 1, and he appeared in two separate scenes as a real character in Spider-Verse 2. THAT would be epic. But we need to build up to that first, from a ground, street level Spider-Man 4 film, with a bigger spectacle in Spider-Man 5, and then a high stakes, full on multiverse/live action Spider-Verse/Avengers level threat for Spider-Man 6. THAT would be epic!
So? What do you think?
apologies in advance for being so wordy. it took me a few days to write this OP in its entirety, and I didn't have time to write a tl;dr and just wanted to get this out there because of how much time it took to write. Sony, Marvel, Disney, if you're reading this, you can have this idea for free!
Reason #1: The narrative setup at the end of NwH
first of all from a narrative standpoint, Peter Parker in the MCU is getting a fresh start of being entirely on his own as a superhero in New York City since 2016 (if that's when Cap3 takes place). he made his own suit, he's back to making his own webshooters, and he's operating as a sole vigilante in New York City.
so with a Peter Parker who is now an adult, but still a very young adult at that, he's gonna get the full swing (no pun intended) of the great responsibility that comes with great power.
Reason #2: A team-up with Daredevil WILL make a lot of money
but who else operates as a sole vigilante in New York City? Matt Murdock! Who Peter himself was acquainted with in NwH for acquitting him of the murder of Mysterio. But our very own Daredevil doesn't know that, because he's part of the earth's population that completely forgot who Peter Parker is. But he does know that there is another vigilante in New York, Spider-Man. I think this would be the perfect opportunity for them to take inspiration from the 90s cartoon, and have these two heroes be adversaries at first, and then realize that they are on the same side.
Matt may need to get reacquainted with Peter, but Peter never knew Matt was also a superhero. All he knew was that Matt's a really good lawyer. so the irony of them not knowing each other's double lives, I think they should incorporate that. it's a comical irony. And we all know how popular Netflix's Daredevil series was, right? It was one of Netflix's biggest hits for a while back in the day. And I remember also back in the day how naysayers were saying that Daredevil just isn't canon to the MCU, blah blah blah...with the advent of Echo, I'm glad that (frankly stupid) argument has been put to rest.
I've touched upon this in a previous thread, but there was just as much hype back in 2021 to Matt Murdock's appearance in NwH as there was to the appearances of the legacy Spider-Men. the character was also a huge draw because of how he was getting teased as appearing in She-Hulk. and on top of that, as I've said in a previous thread, Sony knows this. they used a frame from Matt Murdock appearance as the thumbnail of the first 10 minutes of NwH on Youtube, which as of today has over 3 million views:
all this is to say, if Spider-Man 4 included Daredevil in a major role, there would certainly be an audience for it! it's something that's never been done before. I think hardcore fans and even casual fans alike, would love to see this live action team-up. I personally have been waiting for it for almost 10 years!
As a side note, Matt Murdock did have a cameo in Spider-Verse 1, so here is to hoping he may be involved in Spider-Verse 3. The Spot is also a villain of Daredevil's and the movie is called "Beyond" the Spider-Verse, so...
Reason #3: It's time to take (in Marvel's own words) street-level Thanos to the big screen
Brad Winderbaum who worked on Echo:
Now ain't that an enticing thought?! Speaking of Thanos, imagine how thought-provoking a conversation could have been between Wilson Fisk & Thanos! And Kingpin himself, Vincent D'Onofrio has been wanting to be onscreen with the MCU Spider-Man since his debut in Daredevil season 1 back in 2015. He's just as much of a villain of Spider-Man's as he is Daredevil's. Here's an fan art of him carrying a suitcase and a newspaper with "multiverse" written on it, in homage to the film Uncle Buck starring the late John Candy:
Back in 2021 when the rumors were up about him showing up in Hawkeye, there was also the rumor that D'Onofrio signed a gigantic contract with Disney too. I cannot locate the tweet right now unfortunately, otherwise I would post it too. The late Michael Clarke Duncan previously portrayed Kingpin in the first Daredevil movie, and while I liked his portrayal, it has been 20 years since we got a live action portrayal of Kingpin again on the big screen.
I've said before also, that if Kingpin would be the main villain Spider-Man 4, that he shouldn't be a one & done villain. The canceled Netflix version of the Daredevil show had a season 4 & 5 planned, and the fifth season was supposed to feature a final showdown between him & Daredevil.
Reason #4: Michael Mando is acting prowess waiting to happen
I can't be the only SHH member here who has also watched Better call Saul, right? There's even a 50 page long thread about it. Michael Mando was phenomenal in that show, and no doubt would give a memorable portrayal as the Scorpion - or even a villainous Venom down the line. I was hoping he would have been in NwH as a sixth villain, the one villain who is from the main universe who could lead the other villains since he's fought this Spider-Man before only without superpowers - but we have not seen him since the mid credit scene in Homecoming:
Bringing Mando back also gives the producers a chance to show the audience what a re-contextualized scene regarding Spider-Man in the past post Dr. Strange's spell is. Given how that scene is literally about Spider-Man's secret identity, with Toomes dishonestly denying knowledge of it.
He hasn't even been mentioned in the series or the MCU at all as far as I can recall. Is this just gonna remain a loose end of the franchise and we're never gonna see the character again? I personally think Scorpion should be a secondary villain working for Fisk. The latter can be hinted or just revealed that he's working on gathering a team of villains to take on Spider-Man. That would be comic accurate too since Kingpin is the ringleader of the Sinister Six in the comics, right?
Reason #5: The actors are getting older and older
In a conversation I had a previous thread, it was suggested that this supposed movie might be saved for MCU Spider-Man 5 in 2029. Charlie Cox will be 45 by then and definitely still young, but it just doesn't make sense narrative wise to have another high stakes Spider-Man movie after we got what was described as the Endgame of Spider-Man movies. Not that I am opposed to having another multiverse movie, but I will elaborate on that a little later. D'Onofrio will be 69 by then, and that would make this his first altercation with Spider-Man.
As I said, I don't want him to be a one & done villain. And of course there is the question of Tom Holland, who will be already in his 30s by that time. Obviously like Cox that's still very young, but at that point in time in his career - another thing brought up in other threads is that - he may not want to keep playing the character. Which may also work out for for the narrative, which I will get into now.
Reason #6: We can still have another live action Spider-Verse, but later
I've said this as well in other threads that it's not that I would mind a NwH 2.0, but just not as the direct sequel to it. Spider-Man 4 is presumably going to be the start of a new trilogy, right? I mentioned Spider-Verse 1 earlier when I said Matt Murdock cameo'd in it, well Spider-Verse 2 is also relevant to this conversation because that was the first time in 6 years we got to see the MCU Prowler...even if he wasn't in an MCU movie. And it was in a movie that starred MILES MORALES himself as the protagonist! As Tom Holland and subsequently his character Peter Parker continues to age - and with the advent of showing the Prowler in a cameo - indicates that there is a Miles somewhere out there in 616 Brooklyn.
Maybe Sony/Marvel/Disney are planning to include a (very) young Miles in Spider-Man 4 anyway, but regardless of that, if they go the route of this thread I think having Miles show up in this movie would be a good setup. Maybe the mid credit scene could be him getting bit, and Spider-Man 5 is a protege/mentor relationship between Peter and Miles, maybe that could be the film where Peter has the symbiote and part of his relationship with Miles is helping him get back to his senses and splitting with it.
And Spider-Man 6 could be the Sinister 6 movie that Sony has always wanted. The Kingpin can be the final threat as the seventh villain, and maybe Drew Goddard and the OG Netflix Daredevil team can incorporate elements of their original season 5 ending into it too.
Include the Prowler in the team, or don't - save him for a future Spider-Man series where Miles takes over as the protagonist. That could either entail 616 Peter Parker retiring, passing the baton to Miles, or just going part-time as Spider-Man while Miles goes full time. If the suits want to really take a risk, they could go ahead and have a villain kill 616 Peter. There was a rumor of Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man showing up in Dr. Strange 2 with Scarlet Witch killing him, but I consider that rumor to be 50% true since we got John Krasinski's Mr. Fantastic shown up and he was the one who ends up getting killed.
Fan posters of NwH also included Daredevil in costume, so Spider-Man 6 could be a massive team of Tom Holland Spider-Man, Miles Morales Spider-Man, Tobey Maguire Spider-Man, Andrew Garfield Spider-Man, Daredevil.... and, maybe Insomniac Spider-Man? His suit was in Spider-Verse 1, and he appeared in two separate scenes as a real character in Spider-Verse 2. THAT would be epic. But we need to build up to that first, from a ground, street level Spider-Man 4 film, with a bigger spectacle in Spider-Man 5, and then a high stakes, full on multiverse/live action Spider-Verse/Avengers level threat for Spider-Man 6. THAT would be epic!
So? What do you think?
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