Why Toy Sales Ruined Star Wars

[Bunker]

During an interview with the LA Times, Gary Kurtz, producer of Episodes IV and V, explains why toy sales turned Star Wars into kiddie sci fi...

After the release of “Empire” (which was shaped by material left over from that first Lucas treatment), talk turned to a third film and after a decade and a half the partners could no longer find a middle ground.

“We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”
The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/her...lmmakers-george-lucas-and-gary-kurtz-wer.html

As someone who absolutely loathes the Ewoks and the cheesy ending (ghost of Hayden Christensen ), the ideas presented by Kurtz sound PERFECT. Oh well...

 

[Passdom]

That ending sounds so absolutely perfect...what a shame.

 

[dark_b]

bla bla bla.

we all like SW return or the jedi

but this is again another try to bash Lucas. yes he is the devil and Hitler. bohohohoh

 

[scifiwolf]

None of this is really new info. I knew of the original ending to RotJ from hearing Harrison Ford discuss it. What is new to me is hearing one of Lucas' inner circle discuss the degrading quality of the films post-Empire. I didn't realize the mandate to not let Solo die was to sell toys. Not a big surprise, given Lucas' head for merchandising. It's a shame that his brilliant mind for business had to influence his path as an artist.

 

[baerrtt]

I'd like to think that 'toy sales' had little to do with a final entry that, in many eyes, lacked the jeopardy and genuinely tense atmosphere of TESB.

By the time EMPIRE was released the STAR WARS universe had pretty much already become a 20th century classic fairy tale in the style of THE WIZARD OF OZ one, as with most fairy tales, that mostly appealed to children with it's basic story of good vs evil.

My feeling is that Lucas, when planning his ending, simply thought very carefully about why his creation had, in relatively short time, resonated with so many people (basically being an uplifting antidote to all those dark New Hollywood flicks in the 70s)and decided upon a happy ending for all the characters.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

bla bla bla.

we all like SW return or the jedi

but this is again another try to bash Lucas. yes he is the devil and Hitler. bohohohoh

I do personally like ROTJ, but the obvious drop in quality from the first two films is glaring.

 

[ALP]

Lucas changed the structure of Star Wars with every single film. Almost nothing from the original outline of 1974 is in the final films.

Toy sales did not ruin Star Wars. The first film was originally given a G rating. Look up any interview with Lucas, even from the 70s. He specifically said he wanted to fill the movie with "everything little boys would love, all the comics I read as a kid."

The whole idea that Star Wars was originally supposed to be a dark gritty story aimed at adults is a pack of ridiculous and laughable lies. Just a bunch of fanboys angry with GL.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I think after the downer of Empire we needed the happy ending of Jedi. What's wrong with the heroes winning in the end.

Isn't this why everyone wants a 3rd installment to Nolan's Bat-franchise so Batman can become Gotham's hero again, instead of the scapegoat for Two-Face's crimes.

 

[bullets]

I prefer the Han Solo lives version .Also the celebration fits the ending of the series better.

 

[BigSams50]

I'm glad they didnt kill solo, and i agree with some that the ending in ROTJ was perfect.

 

[Octoberist]

I did like the ending of Jedi. I did like Ackbar's timeless words of "It's a trap!"

I think there are moments of greatness in the film but there were some glaring plot holes that I didn't get:

For example,

Han and Lando kissed and made up FAST. In fact, Lando never apologized for his actions either. It's as if the betrayal never happened.

 

[CGHulk]

I prefer the happy ending.

 

[Bim]

I prefer the Han Solo lives version .Also the celebration fits the ending of the series better.

Agreed.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think you are all missing the point. It isn't about who lives, but the sudden shift in directions of the film. ROTJ is like the last 30 minutes of ROTK. Devoid of thrills or passion because it is such prolonged fan service. You have all this build up to the final confrontation between the son and his father and his father's master. The film begins building to isolating Luke by killing Yoda and Obi-Wan no longer having anything to offer Luke. Instead of making the next logical step, getting rid of Han, they put him front and center.

Instead of this great tense battle of wills, the finale of the trilogy is intercut with Han, Leia, the droids, and teddybears battling now completely inept Stormtroopers and a terrible imitation of the classic trench run. It slows the film to a crawl and works in the exact opposite way Leia's pursuit of Boba did in ESB.

All the other character's stories are irrelevant compared to the final confrontation.

 

[ALP]

Then you just don't like GL's style. He's always been that way. His films have always had a cheesy quality. The darkest film is the one GL had least to do with. He was front and center on all of the others.

 

[Octoberist]

Well, I do admit that Return of the Jedi WAS my favorite Star Wars as a kid, then realize it was the weakest one in the trilogy.

I do agree that the second Death Star was 'meh', even in theory. I never mind the Ewoks though and I thought the Jabba's Palace scenes were well done. But I didn't like what happened to Yoda (who seemed perfectly healthy in 'Empire') and Boba Fett. Why was Boba still at Jabba's palace? He's a bounty hunter. Collect your loot and leave.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Then you just don't like GL's style. He's always been that way. His films have always had a cheesy quality. The darkest film is the one GL had least to do with. He was front and center on all of the others.

American Graffiti, THX 1138 (By far his bleakest film), Star Wars, Raiders, and his complete love and aping of Kurosawa show he wasn't cheesy at first.

The cheese was something that came later. What Lucas lost was his sense of taste and from there he started to blur the line between clever and simply over the top. The comedy of his earlier scripts had hints of glorious slapstick, but it was never the driving force of the film. It was in service of character and story. Han's bravado running the halls of the Death Star is great example of it.

Somewhere around Temple of Doom and Return of the Jedi, something went horribly wrong. I blame the divorce.

 

[Bunker]

In An Empire of Dreams, a really good documentary about the original trilogy, Harrison Ford said he wanted Han to die. He thought it was basically time for a main character to get killed off and thought Han was the only logical choice. I think it was mainly because he wanted to leave Star Wars behind and move on to more films, but it still shows that some huge players in the making of the movie didn't agree with the final product.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

In An Empire of Dreams, a really good documentary about the original trilogy, Harrison Ford said he wanted Han to die. He thought it was basically time for a main character to get killed off and thought Han was the only logical choice. I think it was mainly because he wanted to leave Star Wars behind and move on to more films, but it still shows that some huge players in the making of the movie didn't agree with the final product.

I think what happened was that Star Wars was going to continue past Return of the Jedi and everyone but Ford and Fisher were not prepared for it.

I truly believe that there were plans for a last of the Jedi type adventures, that moved away from the core three to focus mainly on Luke, but Lucas had already learned that his moneymaker was in the three together.

 

[ALP]

American Graffiti, THX 1138 (By far his bleakest film), Star Wars, Raiders, and his complete love and aping of Kurosawa show he wasn't cheesy at first.

The cheese was something that came later. What Lucas lost was his sense of taste and from there he started to blur the line between clever and simply over the top. The comedy of his earlier scripts had hints of glorious slapstick, but it was never the driving force of the film. It was in service of character and story. Han's bravado running the halls of the Death Star is great example of it.

Somewhere around Temple of Doom and Return of the Jedi, something went horribly wrong. I blame the divorce.

I fully give you THX1138, certainly his bleakest. But the others had their fair amount of cheese. If GL had helmed Raiders or had more control over it like with Temple of Doom, Raiders would have been far cheesier. Also remember that GL was restraining himself with American Graffiti because he was afraid of failure coming off of THX, once it was a success he was able to write whatever he wanted. That amplified after the success of A New Hope. I do agree though that he got cheesier, certainly when he began the PT. There is nothing too over the top for me in the originals. The same cannot be said for Phantom Menace.

I think what happened was that Star Wars was going to continue past Return of the Jedi and everyone but Ford and Fisher were not prepared for it.

I truly believe that there were plans for a last of the Jedi type adventures, that moved away from the core three to focus mainly on Luke, but Lucas had already learned that his moneymaker was in the three together.

I believe even in the 80s he mentioned an episode 7, 8, & 9 that would focus on Luke.

 

[Octoberist]

In An Empire of Dreams, a really good documentary about the original trilogy, Harrison Ford said he wanted Han to die. He thought it was basically time for a main character to get killed off and thought Han was the only logical choice. I think it was mainly because he wanted to leave Star Wars behind and move on to more films, but it still shows that some huge players in the making of the movie didn't agree with the final product.

As much as I love Harrison Ford, when I found out as a kid that he didn't think TOO highly of Star Wars, it nearly broke my heart.

It wasn't until friggin' now when he finally embraces it (That Empire Strikes Back screening, with Ford doing Q & A) and him being at Comic Con was actually wonderful. I don't think he'll ever 'get' geekdom, but finally he's acknowledging it. That's good enough for me.

 

[8wid]

Well some people... actually have tried to rectify Lucas's crimes against the arts...

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Am4g36Ugm8

 

[Pink Ranger]

To be honest, it would have been too cruel to kill of Han Solo in Ep 6, after he was basically "deadish" already after Ep 5. It would be a case of being dark for the sake of being dark, masking as sophistication.

Luke walking off into the sunset would have been cool, but the ending of Ep 6 isn't that much different; his future is as uncertain there as it would be in the "cool" ending.

Would still have liked to see Wookies instead of Ewoks though.

 

[Spider-Vader]

I'd prefer the happy ending. Han Solo dying would of sucked worse than Chewie dying in the EU. Though, I like the idea of Luke going off by himself.

 

[Mr.Webs]

Wow....that edit actually works.

And same here. Using Wookies instead of Ewoks would have made ROTJ much more realistic (as realistic as a scifi film can get). I never really understood how the Empire, the deadliest military force in the galaxy, was brought down on foot by three foot tall care bears.