Will Storm be Fox-Free if Marvel declares her x-men resignation?

[RLAAMJR.]

I hope somebody can help as to what extent Fox owns the x-men franchise.

And I'm not saying that I want this to happen.

Ororo Munroe aka Storm is currently an Avenger member.

I know Fox owns X-Men but what if Marvel declares her resignation to the X-Men and becomes a full-time member of the Avengers? Like Marvel will no longer put Storm on any upcoming x-men comics, x-men cartoon series, etc.


Will Fox no longer own her?

I hope the movie buffs here know much about the contract.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

haha, no, if Marvel were able to do that, they could just get characters back from Fox any time they wanted, by way of just writing a few comic-books.
I think Fox basically has access to all mutants in the MU anyway, as that permutation of superhero originated with the X-Men brand.

 

[psylockolussus]

LOL.

FYI, Wolverine/Beast were on the Avengers too.

 

[cherokeesam]

Yeah, Storm's not the first X-Man (X-Person?) to join the Avengers.

But I think a lot of people are greatly overestimating exactly who Fox *does* have access to. If the contract really specified that they have ALL Marvel's mutants, you're looking at easily half (or more) of the Marvel roster of heroes and villains, and that just simply isn't believable at all. Plus, the fact that Feige very recently confirmed that Fox *doesn't* have exclusivity over Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver (who are two VERY prominent figures in both the X-Men and Avengers) shows that there's probably a lot of instances where Marvel Studios (or even Sony) might be able to "steal" some mutants for their respective film universes.

 

[bubbadoom]

Yeah, Storm's not the first X-Man (X-Person?) to join the Avengers.

But I think a lot of people are greatly overestimating exactly who Fox *does* have access to. If the contract really specified that they have ALL Marvel's mutants, you're looking at easily half (or more) of the Marvel roster of heroes and villains, and that just simply isn't believable at all. Plus, the fact that Feige very recently confirmed that Fox *doesn't* have exclusivity over Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver (who are two VERY prominent figures in both the X-Men and Avengers) shows that there's probably a lot of instances where Marvel Studios (or even Sony) might be able to "steal" some mutants for their respective film universes.

Fox has a notebook several inches thick with ALL the mutants they have access to for their films - there are three or four to a page, so that's a LOT of mutants. I do not recall if Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were in there, but damn near every other character who has ever been in an X-book was.

Namor was about the only mutant I can think of who Fox does not have a claim to, and like Feige said, QS and SW are "shared" but they are really more Avengers than X-Men since about 1965!

 

[metaphysician]

Even if by the word of the contract, Marvel could arguably negate the contract by having Storm leave the X-Men? Fox could sue, and argue that such an act renders the relevant contract clause "unconscionable," since it renders the intent of the contract ( to trade consideration for consideration ) invalid.

Whether they'd win is up to the lawyers, but I'd tend to think they'd be in the right; if that logic applied, it'd basically mean Marvel could unilaterally negate any and all parts of the contract whenever they wanted.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

But I think a lot of people are greatly overestimating exactly who Fox *does* have access to. If the contract really specified that they have ALL Marvel's mutants, you're looking at easily half (or more) of the Marvel roster of heroes and villains, and that just simply isn't believable at all. Plus, the fact that Feige very recently confirmed that Fox *doesn't* have exclusivity over Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver (who are two VERY prominent figures in both the X-Men and Avengers) shows that there's probably a lot of instances where Marvel Studios (or even Sony) might be able to "steal" some mutants for their respective film universes.

Yeah, as bubbadoom was saying, I also heard they had access to all the mutants of the X-verse, which essentially means all the genetically born mutants of the MU. Maybe it was him I read the info from before.
As you were saying last night in that Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver convo we were having, Typhoid Mary from Daredevil was used in Elektra, and she is a mutant. I think you forgot that the Daredevil universe is also owned by fox though.

But, it did raise an interesting question, what if DD was not under Fox, would they have been allowed to use the character?
KF was a bit vague on the agreement they came to on SW and QS, as to whether they would be depicted by whatever studio used them first, or both could, or what...

edit: i know SW and QS are a special case, as they originated in the X-verse, but where only really there for the genesis of the brotherhood, before becoming Avengers, the SW primarily being known for that role throughout her career.
But, they are Magneto's offspring, though Fox probably have no plans to introduce them anyway to their x-verse. So, that's why they're ok with this vague agreement.

I guess if a mutant originated in a superhero's universe, and never had any ties to the X-verse, Marvel would be ok for using them without having to seek permission, they would not be featured in that massive file.

 

[chamber-music]

The thing I wanted the guy who asked Feige about Scarlet Witch and Quicksilvers ownership to ask next was if they could mention the fact Wanda and Pietro are mutants and their father is magneto.

Fox did try to sue Marvel over the Mutant X TV show years ago and Marvel ended up settling with them.

 

[Rac]

Movie rights don't work like that.

 

[bubbadoom]

The thing I wanted the guy who asked Feige about Scarlet Witch and Quicksilvers ownership to ask next was if they could mention the fact Wanda and Pietro are mutants and their father is magneto.

Fox did try to sue Marvel over the Mutant X TV show years ago and Marvel ended up settling with them.

I would assume they could mention the mutant angle but not the Magneto relation - which was added years later - at first they were the children of Golden Age heroes The Whizzer and Miss America.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

lol, there is no way they could call a superhero 'The Whizzer' nowadays, to whizz, is to pee-pee.

 

[venom892]

From my understanding, Fox has a long list of characters that they own from Daredevil, Fantastic Four and X-men.Storm is on it and that's all that matters. Nothing that happens in the comics affect that.

 

[hippie_hunter]

From my understanding, Fox has a long list of characters that they own from Daredevil, Fantastic Four and X-men.Storm is on it and that's all that matters. Nothing that happens in the comics affect that.

Well, I think that perfectly answers the question.

Besides, it's not like Storm's tenure on the Avengers has been that long anyways. She pretty much already quit the Avengers after being on the team for a grand total of.......seven issues. She walked off in New Avengers #24 once Captain America brought up the Phoenix Force and sided with the Utopia X-Men in defending Utopia from the Avengers' assault and tried to prevent them from capturing Hope.

 

[the gael]

If it was the case, then Marvel would have Spiderman, Daredevil, the Thing / Ben Grimm and The Beast back, because all of them have been / are avengers. We pretty much know that it isn't the case.

 

[RLAAMJR.]

Yeah, Storm's not the first X-Man (X-Person?) to join the Avengers.

But I think a lot of people are greatly overestimating exactly who Fox *does* have access to. If the contract really specified that they have ALL Marvel's mutants, you're looking at easily half (or more) of the Marvel roster of heroes and villains, and that just simply isn't believable at all. Plus, the fact that Feige very recently confirmed that Fox *doesn't* have exclusivity over Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver (who are two VERY prominent figures in both the X-Men and Avengers) shows that there's probably a lot of instances where Marvel Studios (or even Sony) might be able to "steal" some mutants for their respective film universes.

I may understand on Scarlet Witch'es status but for Quicksilver who has been a member of the brotherhood of evil mutants, also became a member of x-force and even showed up a lot of times in x-men evolution, why wouldn't Fox own him completely?

 

[RLAAMJR.]

Even if by the word of the contract, Marvel could arguably negate the contract by having Storm leave the X-Men? Fox could sue, and argue that such an act renders the relevant contract clause "unconscionable," since it renders the intent of the contract ( to trade consideration for consideration ) invalid.

Whether they'd win is up to the lawyers, but I'd tend to think they'd be in the right; if that logic applied, it'd basically mean Marvel could unilaterally negate any and all parts of the contract whenever they wanted.

So you think it's possible since the contract wasn't very clear in the first place?

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

So you think it's possible since the contract wasn't very clear in the first place?

haha, dude, as 99% of the replies have said, there is no chance of this happening, you grabbing onto the 1% of hope that was posted in that guy's highly speculative reply is up there in the denial stakes as old Hmmars and his 'Wolverine will definitely appear in the Avengers movie!!!' thread. That thread was legendary, lol.

 

[RLAAMJR.]

haha, dude, as 99% of the replies have said, there is no chance of this happening, you grabbing onto the 1% of hope that was posted in that guy's highly speculative reply is up there in the denial stakes as old Hmmars and his 'Wolverine will definitely appear in the Avengers movie!!!' thread. That thread was legendary, lol.

how about my post before that post, about Quicksilver?

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

how about my post before that post, about Quicksilver?

I already discussed that, and as I said, we don't know what is going on really with that discussion between Fox and Marvel over SW and QS. Kevin Feige was pretty vague about what the agreement was about.
There are characters who have been affiliated with numerous universes, Quicksilver has been affiliated with the X-verse, Avengers, and Fantastic Four, through his marriage to Crystal in the inhumans...it will be up to the studios to negotiate over those characters, and it if comes to the point where both studios want to use a character, and will clash over that, I guess it will go to court.
From what Kevin Feige said about those characters, it doesn't sound like Fox are that bothered about using them. Which makes sense as they are planning a couple more X-Men First Class movies, which are prequels, and to try and slot in Magento's offspring so it fit with the original movies, would be problematic.

edit: I mean, you can't possibly compare Quicksilver to your Storm proposition.

 

[cherokeesam]

I already discussed that, and as I said, we don't know what is going on really with that discussion between Fox and Marvel over SW and QS. Kevin Feige was pretty vague about what the agreement was about.
There are characters who have been affiliated with numerous universes, Quicksilver has been affiliated with the X-verse, Avengers, and Fantastic Four, through his marriage to Crystal in the inhumans...it will be up to the studios to negotiate over those characters, and it if comes to the point where both studios want to use a character, and will clash over that, I guess it will go to court.
From what Kevin Feige said about those characters, it doesn't sound like Fox are that bothered about using them. Which makes sense as they are planning a couple more X-Men First Class movies, which are prequels, and to try and slot in Magento's offspring so it fit with the original movies, would be problematic.

edit: I mean, you can't possibly compare Quicksilver to your Storm proposition.

There's nothing to indicate that it's an either-or situation, or that Marvel and Fox would clash if it turns out that both studios want Wanda & Pietro. It's feasible for them to develop two different portrayals and actors and backstories for the siblings. Wouldn't be the first time two different studios have made entirely different actors/stories for the same character(s) --- I can think of instances involving James Bond, Wyatt Earp, Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, Superman, and even Snow White, just off the top of my head.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

There's nothing to indicate that it's an either-or situation, or that Marvel and Fox would clash if it turns out that both studios want Wanda & Pietro. It's feasible for them to develop two different portrayals and actors and backstories for the siblings. Wouldn't be the first time two different studios have made entirely different actors/stories for the same character(s) --- I can think of instances involving James Bond, Wyatt Earp, Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, Superman, and even Snow White, just off the top of my head.

As I was saying, it was a vague statement, so there was nothing to indicate there couldn't be a problem either.
Because I strongly doubt both studios would use the characters, especially if they are money spinners. They will probably have to decide and come to an agreement on who gets to use them.

Most of the examples you gave are of characters that are in the public domain, Wyatt Earp, Robin Hood, and the Superman example is not applicable, as it was a tv show and movie running concurrently, where it was the same corporation behind both permutations.
The James Bond examples were anamolies, where the rights to the novel Casino Royale were owned by someone else back in the 60s, and there was a similar situation with the Connery film in the early 80s, so they could only make that one movie.

None of those examples are relatable to this situation.

 

[DrCosmic]

If Marvel could do this, why can't they just disband the X-Men and have them all join the Avengers, leaving Fox with an empty deal?

Like Feige said, it's complicated. There's nuances in the wording make lots of things ambiguous, and hard to say when one is 'sabotaging' the other. But, if such a thing were suspected, not only will there be lawsuit but Marvel would be known for making bad deals and then reneging based on the latest comics storylines. Not a good look.

 

[psylockolussus]

If Marvel could do this, why can't they just disband the X-Men and have them all join the Avengers, leaving Fox with an empty deal?

t: LOL Fox would be pissed!

 

[Captain Marvel]

I have no idea of the specifics of the contract of course, but it's pretty obvious that this is NOT how it works. If legal documents were this vague then they wouldn't be worth the paper they're printed on. There's no way any contract would amount to "We license all the X-Men characters", and Marvel can wiggle out of that by making those X-Men characters members of the Avengers. How it would actually work is like so:

FOX
We own Cyclops.
We own Jean Grey.
We own Beast.
We own Iceman.
We own Angel/Archangel.
We own Wolverine.
We own Storm.
We own Colossus.
We own Magneto.
We own Professor X.
We own Magik.
We own Shadowcat.
We own Emma Frost.
We own Toad.
We own Juggernaut.
We own Sabertooth.
We own Psylocke.
We own Gambit.
We own Rogue.
We own Banshee.
We own Darwin.
We own Havok.
We own Polaris.
We own Mystique.
We own Mr. Sinister.
We own Apocalypse.
We own the Sentinels.
We own Henry Peter Gyrich.
We own William Stryker.
We own Lady Deathstrike.

...and on and on. Any such contract would SPECIFICALLY call out individual characters and state in unequivocal terms that Fox owns the movie rights to THAT PARTICULAR CHARACTER, and their status in the comics won't affect those rights in any way whatsoever. It doesn't matter what Marvel does in the comics because the comics have no bearing on the legal rights, and whatever the specifics of the contract are, there's simply no way that it's anywhere near as vague and as riddled with loopholes as some people think they are. These contracts were drawn up by lawyers making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, not middle schoolers. They're going to be precise.

 

[DrCosmic]

^If that were true, then QS and SW couldn't be, as Feige said "Complicated" while there may be explicit characters, there's also going to be 'and all related characters' clause. If you think they're going to put 30 years of comics into a legal document...

...We own Rocket Racer
We own Normie Osborn
We own Phil Chang
We own Elizabeth Stacy
We own...

That's not going to happen. There's a catch all clause in there, I'd bet, and that's the problem. If it were all explicit, there would be no problem. BUT, if certain characters are explicit, I'd bet Storm is one.