No Way Home Will this be Spider-Man's last film in the MCU? MCU vs. SSMU

[XtremelyBaneful]

This thread is meant to be a continuation of this thread

All the technical details of this deal

I also made this thread in the spinoff forum because I thought it was pretty important, but it got no replies

Sony's Spider-Man Universe is now the official title for Sony's own Marvel Cinematic Universe

So I have read conflicting reports about Spider-Man's future in the MCU. In the September 2019 renegotiation, Variety reported that after Spider-Man NwH, Spider-Man would be in one more MCU movie. Whether that would be MCU Spider-Man 4 or a crossover movie, I don't know.

The new deal was signed late on Thursday night. Negotiations involved top players from both studios, including Sony Pictures chief Tom Rothman, Feige and Walt Disney Studios co-chairs Alan Horn and Alan Bergman. In exchange for lending Feige's producing prowess, Marvel and Disney will receive roughly 25% of the profits, according to insiders. Disney will retain its merchandising rights and will put up roughly a quarter of the financing. As part of the arrangement, Spider-Man will also appear in one future Marvel Studios film.

But in more recent news, Collider interviewed Tom Holland this year and he said NwH is the last movie in his contract

“[Spider-Man 3] would be my last one [under contract] so I’ve always said to them if they want me back I’ll be there in a heartbeat. I’ve loved every minute of being a part of this amazing world. It’s changed my life for the better, I’m so lucky to be here. If they want me back I’ll be there, if they don’t I will walk off into the sunset a very, very happy person because it’s been an amazing journey.”

And lastly what Feige and Panitch said. Both interviews with Variety

“I am thrilled that Spidey’s journey in the MCU will continue, and I and all of us at Marvel Studios are very excited that we get to keep working on it,” Feige said in a statement. “Spider-Man is a powerful icon and hero whose story crosses all ages and audiences around the globe. He also happens to be the only hero with the superpower to cross cinematic universes, so as Sony continues to develop their own Spidey-verse you never know what surprises the future might hold.”

“There actually is a plan,” he says. “I think now maybe it’s getting a little more clear for people where we’re headed and I think when ‘No Way Home’ comes out, even more will be revealed.”

These imply that he would end up in the SSMU after No Way Home, and who knows how they'll handle canonicity then.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I assume Marvel have 1 film on contract that they can use him for. so this one probably won't be the last.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I assume Marvel have 1 film on contract that they can use him for. so this one probably won't be the last.

then why did he say this is his last one? this completely contradicts that

 

[Spider-Aziz]

then why did he say this is his last one? this completely contradicts that

Maybe it's the last one on his current contract. Chances of renewal of contract are pretty high right now.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Maybe it's the last one on his current contract. Chances of renewal of contract are pretty high right now.

for sure, but the last contract already said that there is one more after this one. that's what I don't get

 

[Arachnerd]

Last one in his current contract because Tom Holland's said before that he would take a long vacation after this movie's press tour.

Fairly certain that we'll have more MCU Spider-Man movies in the future, or at least appearances. That's still Feige's plan anyway.

 

[Pablo Parker]

Kind of sucks that Spidey´s situation in the MCU is always uncertain. This makes the character feel important within this universe and also not important at the same time. I feel like, from a creative point of view, they are always trying to tie Spider-man with the other heroes, but at the same time, not enough so if they end up losing it, they just won´t ever mention him again. We could easily have Osborn as a big baddie of the MCU, but that will (probably) never happen because Sony could get out of the deal at any time.
The only hope I have is that the next time they negotiate, it will be for a longer period of time.

 

[weezerspider]

I’ve always assumed that Spider-man will appear in Dr. Strange 2 to finish the contract and the events of that film will lead Spider-Man and his characters to a different universe outside of the main MCU timeline, so that there is a clean conclusion if Sony and Disney don’t make any more deals. That way Sony can move forward with a version of Holland’s Spider-Man if they want and the MCU has a reason as to why Spider-Man is all of a sudden not involved.

 

[Pablo Parker]

I just hope the ending of No way home is another "to be continued". A nice closure to the story. A nice closure to the trilogy. But it should leave the door open to continue the story of Peter in the MCU.

 

[Chris B]

I don't think it will be. From what we know, the current sharing arrangement strikes me as being a lot more palatable to both Marvel and Sony. Plus, it was just earlier this year that a deal was struck to include new Sony releases on Disney Plus.

I'm pretty confident we'll get a MCU Spider-Man 4 with Tom Holland in the distant future.

 

[GuestStar2004]

then why did he say this is his last one? this completely contradicts that

Well the deal ended after FFH. so I thought the new deal between Marvel and Sony was one each. one Movie for Sony and a one spider-man appearance for Marvel. so if the 3rd movie is for Sony. then i assume Marvel has still to get their spider-man appearance. otherwise what was in the new deal for Marvel if they didn't get to use him for another movie?

After that. i think its up in the air. they didn't exactly extend to deal for that many movies for 2nd time.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Well the deal ended after FFH. so I thought the new deal between Marvel and Sony was one each. one Movie for Sony and a one spider-man appearance for Marvel. so if the 3rd movie is for Sony. then i assume Marvel has still to get their spider-man appearance. otherwise what was in the new deal for Marvel if they didn't get to use him for another movie?

yeah that is what I thought too, which is why I don't get Tom Holland's quote there. He's saying NwH is his last one but it can't be if he's supposed to do one more from this new deal

After that. i think its up in the air. they didn't exactly extend to deal for that many movies for 2nd time.

oh yeah, the first deal was 5 movies over 5 years. This is one is just one to two movies over three or four years. it could have probably been one to two years but the pandemic slowed down filming and the current MCU slate.

 

[Venom 1988]

then why did he say this is his last one? this completely contradicts that

The first deal between Sony and Disney was for 5 movies (2 solo Sony movies and 3 guest MCU movies). But from the beginning Tom had a 6 movie contract (he stated as such years ago in an interview), which confused some people because they assumed that meant the Disney/Sony deal was also 6 movies, when in reality it was just 5. Tom's contract is independent of the Sony/Disney deal.

The 2nd Sony/Disney deal is for 2 movies (1 solo Sony and 1 guest MCU movie). Tom's actual contract is completed now with NWH. He will then have to renegotiate a new contract for whatever this next MCU movie will be (my guess is Fantastic Four but we'll see).

 

[Mike Murdock]

It feels Sony's view of this movie is a culmination of everything they've done so far. Marvel, of course, has less reason to care about what Sony's done so far. Disney and Sony almost walked away before this movie, but the fan backlash was pretty strong. I think they're going to end this movie in a place that would be a satisfying conclusion but will be happy to do more if they can work out the details.

 

[Green Goblin]

I don't think it's a case of choosing between the two. As Kevin Feige said when they renewed the MCU deal, Spider-Man has the ability to cross between the two franchises.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Its gonna come down to making both studios happy in the long run. Disney and Sony are both gonna be fairly greedy. they ain't out to help each other, they are out for what they can benefit from it. and each time the deal renews, the stakes raise to how it can benefit them MORE! and any thought that one is be getting more than the other will instantly ring alarm bells.

While the latest deal was for just 2 movies. they probably counted in some extra benefits on top of the deal. but then of course when the deal has to renew and raise again. it really comes down to what they can offer each other equally, While also being more than they did before.

I mean as much as people wanna say Disney and Sony are tight... the deal still fell through before. which means that yeah if the deal fell through once, it can do it again. if they can't agree on how to raise this deal. then its probably not gonna last.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Its gonna come down to making both studios happy in the long run. Disney and Sony are both gonna be fairly greedy. they ain't out to help each other, they are out for what they can benefit from it. and each time the deal renews, the stakes raise to how it can benefit them MORE! and any thought that one is be getting more than the other will instantly ring alarm bells.

While the latest deal was for just 2 movies. they probably counted in some extra benefits on top of the deal. but then of course when the deal has to renew and raise again. it really comes down to what they can offer each other equally, While also being more than they did before.

I mean as much as people wanna say Disney and Sony are tight... the deal still fell through before. which means that yeah if the deal fell through once, it can do it again. if they can't agree on how to raise this deal. then its probably not gonna last.

are you sure about that? didn't Sony and Disney announce earlier this year that the older Spider-Man movies will be available on Disney+? that's certainly something that they both benefit from.

and if things do end up going south after Spidey's next appearance in an MCU movie, the ball will be back in Sony's court and so will the pressure. if they even think about going their separate ways, there will be hell to pay from fans - and that's ultimately why they renegotiated in 2019. and if they try to do step away again, it's going to keep happening.

Once the MCU got Spider-Man, there is no going back. Sony will have to deal with that.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

All I know is if Sony pulls Spidey out of the MCU and reboots it's gonna get ugly with the fans.

Marvel helped rebuild the Spider-man brand into a billion dollar franchise again. Spider-man has come a long way since ASM2. Why throw away all that progress?

 

[GuestStar2004]

All I know is if Sony pulls Spidey out of the MCU and reboots it's gonna get ugly with the fans.

Who said anything about them rebooting? i imagine they could still use hollands spider-man even without being in the MCU.

But i also suspect Sony might start branching out with alternative spider-mans. not necessarily Toby and Andrew, but Miles, spider-women ect ect.

Once the MCU got Spider-Man, there is no going back. Sony will have to deal with that.

I doubt Sony see it that way. Both studios want to come out of it happy with what they are getting. if not, then they won't renew the deal. it doesn't matter whether the fans cry about it or not. if neither studio are happy, then Sony will just send him over to a crossover with Venom or something.

 

[Green Goblin]

I think a lot of this depends on how the audience reacts to the new characters they're introducing in Phase 4 to carry on the MCU mantle. With Robert Downey Jr and Chris Evans out of the franchise, it remains to be seen if characters like Shang Chi or Eternals will keep audiences invested. Chadwick Boseman's Black Panther is an obvious draw but with his passing, the character can't be used.

Tom Holland's Spider-Man is one of the few MCU characters left who is both universally liked and is proven to be able to carry a franchise.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I doubt Sony see it that way. Both studios want to come out of it happy with what they are getting. if not, then they won't renew the deal. it doesn't matter whether the fans cry about it or not. if neither studio are happy, then Sony will just send him over to a crossover with Venom or something.

well that was my point, dude. In 2019 when they were going to separate, Sony thought they could get away with it until they saw how massively it was backfiring from fans. You're dead wrong to say it doesn't matter whether fans cry about it or not. Fans have everything to do with it. They're the main reason Sony and Disney came together in 2015, and they're the main reason they came together again in 2019.

Despite the hard-balling, we understand Disney came back to the table after D23 when they read the fanboy crowd on how upset they were over a possible rift in the Spider-Man universe. It was there that Holland appeared (to promote his Pixar movie Onward), acknowledging the rough studio talks and assuring fans, saying, “It’s been a crazy week, but I want you to know I am grateful from the bottom of my heart and I love you 3,000.”

 

[Spider-Fan]

This thread is meant to be a continuation of this thread

All the technical details of this deal

I also made this thread in the spinoff forum because I thought it was pretty important, but it got no replies

Sony's Spider-Man Universe is now the official title for Sony's own Marvel Cinematic Universe

So I have read conflicting reports about Spider-Man's future in the MCU. In the September 2019 renegotiation, Variety reported that after Spider-Man NwH, Spider-Man would be in one more MCU movie. Whether that would be MCU Spider-Man 4 or a crossover movie, I don't know.



But in more recent news, Collider interviewed Tom Holland this year and he said NwH is the last movie in his contract



And lastly what Feige and Panitch said. Both interviews with Variety





These imply that he would end up in the SSMU after No Way Home, and who knows how they'll handle canonicity then.

There is a difference between Marvel's deal with Sony and Tom's contract. This probably covers Tom's contract as Spider-Man, but Sony and Marvel have a deal in place to let Spider-Man be in 1 Marvel movie. Sony and Tom Holland will just have to agree on a new contract and hammer out all the appearances they want to ink him for.

As for the topic: will this be our last MCU Spider-Man movie? I think it won't be personally. I think we will get some loose deal where Tom Holland does more MCU movies and appearances, but also is free to appear in their various Sony' Spider-Man Universe movies. Tom Holland will be the link as the 2 universes won't mention each other outside of Tom Holland stuff.

 

[GuestStar2004]

well that was my point, dude. In 2019 when they were going to separate, Sony thought they could get away with it until they saw how massively it was backfiring from fans. You're dead wrong to say it doesn't matter whether fans cry about it or not. Fans have everything to do with it. They're the main reason Sony and Disney came together in 2015, and they're the main reason they came together again in 2019.

Thing is, it comes down to this in the long run, the deal fell through for a reason. Sony wasn't happy with what Disney asked for and Disney wanted to up the deal abit. it seems like what happened was the deal fell through and the reaction probably did make them be abit more reasonable to each other. but really they only managed to come up with 2 more movies as part of the new deal. maybe that was because they realised FFH left things kinda open in the MCU and they thought they could close that arc with 2 more movies. who knows. but 2 more movies kinda has limited written on it.

It really depends what happened on the next renewal date, because thats when studios start saying ok so we feel the success of this movie should allow us more of the money. and thats where fans crying won't suddenly make the studios willing to allow the other more money. one owns spider-man and one owns the universe he is in. so it would be tough to kinda settle this arrangement.

Tom Holland will be the link as the 2 universes won't mention each other outside of Tom Holland stuff.

There is also only so many movies Tom Holland can do really. especially when Sony is kinda early into their Sonyverse so they won't be able to get Holland to be in like 10 more movies of Solos, crossovers and team up movies or whatever. i mean it all adds up and at some point Tom is gonna be willing to move on

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

The first deal between Sony and Disney was for 5 movies (2 solo Sony movies and 3 guest MCU movies). But from the beginning Tom had a 6 movie contract (he stated as such years ago in an interview), which confused some people because they assumed that meant the Disney/Sony deal was also 6 movies, when in reality it was just 5. Tom's contract is independent of the Sony/Disney deal.

The 2nd Sony/Disney deal is for 2 movies (1 solo Sony and 1 guest MCU movie). Tom's actual contract is completed now with NWH. He will then have to renegotiate a new contract for whatever this next MCU movie will be (my guess is Fantastic Four but we'll see).

Why did people assume back in the day that the Sony/Disney deal was about 6 movies when it was really just 5?

The 5 we can count were Cap3, HC, Av3, Av4, and FFH.

Fantastic 4 is a good bet for Spidey's next MCU appearance, but personally I'm hoping he's gonna be in Av5.

There is a difference between Marvel's deal with Sony and Tom's contract. This probably covers Tom's contract as Spider-Man, but Sony and Marvel have a deal in place to let Spider-Man be in 1 Marvel movie. Sony and Tom Holland will just have to agree on a new contract and hammer out all the appearances they want to ink him for.

As for the topic: will this be our last MCU Spider-Man movie? I think it won't be personally. I think we will get some loose deal where Tom Holland does more MCU movies and appearances, but also is free to appear in their various Sony' Spider-Man Universe movies. Tom Holland will be the link as the 2 universes won't mention each other outside of Tom Holland stuff.

Oh I see. So the deal with Sony/Disney is just about sharing the character, and Holland's deal is just about how many movies he gets to star in. But I think it is a given that the studios will extend his contract. He's the most loved live action Peter Parker by far.

Thing is, it comes down to this in the long run, the deal fell through for a reason. Sony wasn't happy with what Disney asked for and Disney wanted to up the deal abit. it seems like what happened was the deal fell through and the reaction probably did make them be abit more reasonable to each other. but really they only managed to come up with 2 more movies as part of the new deal. maybe that was because they realised FFH left things kinda open in the MCU and they thought they could close that arc with 2 more movies. who knows. but 2 more movies kinda has limited written on it.

It really depends what happened on the next renewal date, because thats when studios start saying ok so we feel the success of this movie should allow us more of the money. and thats where fans crying won't suddenly make the studios willing to allow the other more money. one owns spider-man and one owns the universe he is in. so it would be tough to kinda settle this arrangement.

I am guessing the 2019 deal was for only 2 movies because Disney is being cautious of how much they want Spider-Man to be involved in Phase 4 and beyond.

but again, I disagree with the bolded. This is ALL about the fans. All Sony and Disney care about is making money, and they are aware than FANS buying movie tickets is what brings them money. Sony realizes this more than Disney because they saw how the ASM series was declining movie after movie in box office revenue.

they made a move in reactive way after D23 when they saw how Spider-Man's future absence from the MCU may threaten their IP's box office performance and that's when they realized they have to keep working with Disney.

 

[Venom 1988]

2 more movies kinda has limited written on it.

Not necessarily. To me it reads they quickly rushed a deal so they could get production on the next Spider-Man movie and to buy both companies more time to figure out what they're going to do next.

Why did people assume back in the day that the Sony/Disney deal was about 6 movies when it was really just 5?

Because some people couldn't understand that Tom's contract and Disney's/Sony's contract are 2 separate things. That's all really.