With DC going all digital...

[CConn]

Is anyone else surprised Marvel hasn't announced something in response to DC going all digital?

I'm not suggesting a full reboot or anything, but I would've at least thought Marvel would do something to expand their digital selection to stay competitive.

Especially since after September, month old DC comics being a full 2 dollars cheaper than most Marvel books.

 

[Dread]

Day-and-date digital is seen as some to be the future, and others to have been a move that more Western comic book companies should have done 3-5 years ago. Dark Horse has been selling digital comics before DC made their announcement, and Archie Comics has been doing day-and-date with digital/print comics; of course, Archie still heavily relies on sales outside the direct market. Marvel has occasionally sold some comics day-and-date, but sometimes for equal or greater cover price, like the INVINCIBLE IRON MAN ANNUAL from last year.

DC's digital strategy is a toe dipped into the pool, but it isn't a dive. DC and Marvel rely on the direct market as it is (and has been since the 90's) for literally 99% of their sales. They cannot afford to undercut it while they still rely on it on a day to day basis. Thus, while DC's move is huge, great pains are taken to not undercut retailers. DC digital comics will be $2.99 in DL and print until 4 weeks later, when they slip to $1.99. Why? To encourage people to catch up. However, this merely forces savvy buyers to wait longer to DL product, under which time they may forget or lose interest.

Another point can be made that if DC, or Marvel, are really serious about hooking non-comic readers with digital comics, that $1.99 is a price that is too high. Proof? Lady GaGa can sell a single track on Amazon or other online venues for .99 - that's 99 cents for a 2-4 minute song, and it can sell over 400k in rapid time. Thus, the theory has arose that 99 cents is "impulse buy" price in which almost anyone who is online is willing to invest that much on a sight unseen product. Once that price rises to $2 or $3, however, the purchase seems more "real" and discourages interest.

Currently, digital comic sales make up 1% of sales for the industry, according to experts (the same ones who believe the current monthly direct market audience in North America is about 300,000 readers - down at least 10% from 2005-2006). Perhaps this is because things like iPods, iPads, and Apps are still owned by a minority of people. Perhaps this is due to oppressive prices and the many years illegal DL sites have had to become entrenched with their audience - the dilemma manga has had for years and has been the scourge of TOKYOPOP. It also may be dilemma having to use Apple devices as middle-men and that you don't actually own what you purchase. You don't own the comic as a .jpeg file or something, you need the ComiXology App or whatever App to view it. If the system crashes or you lose something, it's gone.

The golden rule of business is that ALL business is run by out of touch morons who assume their customers are less intelligent and unwilling to figure out the best deal for themselves as they can - multiply this by many times, and one can see why the economy for most of the Western world is shot. Even if someone figures out to sell digital comics day and date at .99, the damage may be done. Whatever new readers may already be happy to DL for free, and they'll only get in readers who are already there.

That said, sometimes illegal DL's have done more to promote some titles than Marvel or DC have done themselves. Virtually every person I know online who admits to illegally DLing a comic to read for free often admits they ARE willing to pay for something they really like. I have gotten at least 2-3 people to read AVENGERS ACADEMY in such a way, and they enjoyed it so much they not only hopped aboard monthly issues, they bought up either a trade collection of prior stories THEY ALREADY READ ILLEGALLY FOR FREE or bought up back-issues. The rule of comics is similar to what the music industry faced - people, no matter what the economy, are unwilling to pay what they feel is an unfair price for crap (or even for the average).

 

[CConn]

That's a great post. Yet oddly, I still have no idea of your actual thoughts on the matter.

I think the main thing that will hurt Marvel is the 1.99 price point. There's several DC comics I'm buying purely because they're only 2 bucks, and conversely, there's TONS of Marvel comics I'm not buying purely because a single issue isn't worth 4 bucks to me.

 

[Dread]

Personally? I feel that for all the tough talk every time Marvel relaunches something, ends a marriage or cancels a title, or cuts out page counts or hikes prices in secret, they're gutless cowards when it comes to REAL innovation or risks to try to drum up business. You want to get people to buy digital comics? Make them cheaper than your competition. If you want more readers, you have to make them cheaper. $1.99 from DC after 4 weeks is itself too high for many non-comic readers, but $2.99 - $3.99 for digital comics from Marvel is absurd. There's no paper, and no shipping costs.

The direct market has been bleeding sales for several years now, and none of the short term gimmicks from either side will fix that. They need to do more to entice more readers. It's an unfortunate secret, but some creators (not all, or even most, but SOME) are paid way too much for sales that aren't what they were when said contracts were signed. Paying someone 2006 money for sales they get in 2011 is absurdity on it's face, I am sorry. It is time comics line wide grew the **** up and stopped indulging aging nostalgia acts or felt the key to success is mindlessly repeating what worked in 1993, from designs to stories to stunts to gimmicks.

Heck, Marvel won't even go the simple route and make #1 issues as cheap as possible in PHYSICAL copies. Half the time they make that #1 issue the most expensive issue, because they cynically see it as the only issue anyone buys. Here's the trick, though - produce a comic that is, GASP, actually NOT A FESTERING PILE OF BUFFALO FECES - and make it so cheap that it becomes an impulse buy, and you might get a load of new readers to stick on your product. Release cheap trades as soon as an arc is completed, and fans who hear good word of mouth can immediately jump on, instead of having to wait additional months. Then, sales might actually go UP on a quality product as time goes on - mad concept, I know.

I say if Marvel wants to go day and date, they should either do it cheaper or not bother.

Sure, I don't know anything about sales. But that makes me no better or worse than many senior editors who make sales decisions.

 

[kguillou]

Here's the thing....I think both Marvel and DC WANT to jump into the digital realm with both feet...but they still have to worry about the retailers to worry about. The retailers do not want digital comics because then whats the point of going to the store? It's sort of like biting the hand that feeds you. The retailers are how they make their money. If they decide to cut them off completely...well it could get ugly.

But i am glad DC is trying SOMETHING, because the industry is dying and fast. I cannot wait to hear Marvel's rebuttal strategy because you just KNOW they're cooking something up right now to try to trump DC's power move.

Oh and well said as usual Dread,

 

[Dread]

Like I said in my first post, neither Marvel or DC can afford to undercut the direct market for now. It is akin to cutting off a tree branch you are sitting on. At the same time, though, unless they are fools, they need to realize all their stunts will merely delay the inevitable the that market, and even that delay is less than it used to be. Sales spikes on renumberings barely last 2 months anymore, and even the debut issues of mega-crossovers can't garner more than 130k sales these days. When your top sellers without gimmicks or crossovers are barely pulling 75k, or even 65k, that's disturbing. Sales for Bendis' AVENGERS comics, while technically still in the Top 10, are near the levels they were in 2004 when he took over. Hickman has recently outsold them with the promotion FF has gotten. It actually may be past time to try to phase Bendis out and put in someone else they think can sell better. The dilemma is that person may not exist, yet.

The dilemma is that Marvel and DC may be so entrenched with the DM than by the time they DO dive into digital, it will be too little, too late. Physical comics will not go away completely - same as vinyl hasn't gone away completely, nor are people as eager to dive into Blu-Ray as the home video industry had hoped. I think they need to quietly say to retailers that the audience they seek with digital comics are mostly NOT going to be the same audience that buys physical comics in stores. They can aid shops with websites to sell comics digitally as middle-men, and maybe even aid some shops in establishing websites (many shops nation wide barely have a land line telephone).

To be honest, releasing trades at cheaper prices and at a faster rate might do about as much or more to compensate for monthly losses than digital comics right now. It is the future, but it isn't more than 1% of the present nor may it be an immediate savior. The comic industry's woes are often self-imposed and internal and have been allowed to fester for so long that almost nothing will work besides something huge happening and then rebuilding from ash, frankly.

 

[kguillou]

Like I said in my first post, neither Marvel or DC can afford to undercut the direct market for now. It is akin to cutting off a tree branch you are sitting on. At the same time, though, unless they are fools, they need to realize all their stunts will merely delay the inevitable the that market, and even that delay is less than it used to be. Sales spikes on renumberings barely last 2 months anymore, and even the debut issues of mega-crossovers can't garner more than 130k sales these days. When your top sellers without gimmicks or crossovers are barely pulling 75k, or even 65k, that's disturbing. Sales for Bendis' AVENGERS comics, while technically still in the Top 10, are near the levels they were in 2004 when he took over. Hickman has recently outsold them with the promotion FF has gotten. It actually may be past time to try to phase Bendis out and put in someone else they think can sell better. The dilemma is that person may not exist, yet.

The dilemma is that Marvel and DC may be so entrenched with the DM than by the time they DO dive into digital, it will be too little, too late. Physical comics will not go away completely - same as vinyl hasn't gone away completely, nor are people as eager to dive into Blu-Ray as the home video industry had hoped. I think they need to quietly say to retailers that the audience they seek with digital comics are mostly NOT going to be the same audience that buys physical comics in stores. They can aid shops with websites to sell comics digitally as middle-men, and maybe even aid some shops in establishing websites (many shops nation wide barely have a land line telephone).

To be honest, releasing trades at cheaper prices and at a faster rate might do about as much or more to compensate for monthly losses than digital comics right now. It is the future, but it isn't more than 1% of the present nor may it be an immediate savior. The comic industry's woes are often self-imposed and internal and have been allowed to fester for so long that almost nothing will work besides something huge happening and then rebuilding from ash, frankly.

First off, f*** blu ray man. I mean it looks nice but $30 for a movie? Really? Who are the people out there paying that much for something they'll likely watch once?

But anyway your absolutely right. But my only question is...what is it going to take for Marvel and DC to get their books back into grocery stores and pharmacies and toy stores, and all the other non comic book shop places that they used to be in? Is it possible? Digital is nice and a step in the right direction but its not enough. Frankly, even moreso than the pricing of their books, that right there is the absolute key to saving the industry, distribution. I mean maybe I'm being naive and i dont know how things work, but with Marvel and DC being juggernauts at the boxoffice, I would think this wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Dread]

First off, f*** blu ray man. I mean it looks nice but $30 for a movie? Really? Who are the people out there paying that much for something they'll likely watch once?

But anyway your absolutely right. But my only question is...what is it going to take for Marvel and DC to get their books back into grocery stores and pharmacies and toy stores, and all the other non comic book shop places that they used to be in? Is it possible? Digital is nice and a step in the right direction but its not enough. Frankly, even moreso than the pricing of their books, that right there is the absolute key to saving the industry, distribution. I mean maybe I'm being naive and i dont know how things work, but with Marvel and DC being juggernauts at the boxoffice, I would think this wouldn't be a problem.

DVD sales have continued to dwindle from highs earlier in the decade, which means that an audience that was able to shift from VHS to DVD is not eager to abandon DVD for something more expensive in less than 15-20 years (DVD's debuted in the late 90's but did not become the standard until the 21st century, around 2002-2005 I'd say). Nobody wants to be the test audience for something that won't last, same as Blu-Ray survived over HD-DVD. But, you are exactly right - customers are not fools. In the middle of a recession they are not going to overpay for a film just so they can see sweat beads better. I imagine this is why movie ticket tallies have dwindled, too. At $12 for a non-matinee, non 3D film, that is no longer impulse territory. Hell, for less than that you can go to a chain shop and OWN a DVD you will be sure of liking, versus a film you're not sure of.

But I digress.

The difficulty with getting comics back in grocery stories and whatnot are that after the 90's, they stopped selling well enough that grocery stores were interested in ordering them. In Brooklyn I actually had a few TE-AMO grocery stores within walking distance that continued to sell comics on spindle racks up until last year, but have since stopped. What has replaced them? DVD's mostly, and whatever magazines are left. Marvel's reprint magazines which had 3-4 issues of comics reprinted within were usually common presences in those shops.

Now, Marvel's deal with Disney has made it easier to start getting into chain shops again. COSTCO recently had a 3-pack of Marvel comics in time for "THOR", one of which had a Thor comic in it. The dilemma is that it has to be cheap enough on a wholesale level that these chains can afford to risk it. Hence why Archie, who usually penetrate with cheaply priced digests, remain viable there.

Some have suggested selling comics at movie theaters, but unless they are cheaply priced, it won't work. I doubt they would be - a theater is a place that is merrily willing to charge you $6 for a stale, bacteria laden hot dog or twice as much for an over-sized soda that will just make your bladder explode before the end of the film. A family of four can attend a movie theater on a weekend night, get snacks and go home, all for slightly less than the cost of a major appliance. I'd like to see more ads for local comic shops for movie theaters, or at least ads for comics on networks that actually air cartoons based on them. Disney owns Marvel and they can't even put an ad for AVENGERS ACADEMY on Disney XD or CARTOON NETWORK, which airs MARVEL SUPER HERO SQUAD which includes Reptil, for ****'s sake?

Like I said - when it really counts, Marvel brass are spineless. They talk like gang bangers when they gyp customers on cover prices or ruin your childhood with a reboot, but become bawling sissies when it comes to something REALLY innovative. They're the type who only brag when they have a winning hand in a rigged game, but suddenly go mute when someone offers double or nothing.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Honestly, I think that Marvel is going to wait and see how this all turns out for DC. It is a SERIOUSLY huge move on DC's part of I bet any money that if the same day digital release sparks higher sales and generates extra revenue for DC they won't be too far behind.

I've been waiting for this same day digital release for over a year now and it's going to be very interesting to see how it all turns out. There are going to be some DC titles that I will definitely be getting due to awesome creative teams but knowing that other titles are going to be 1.99 digital...and I have it right at the tip of my finger on my iPod...I definitely will be checking out other titles digitally.

It's a bold move, and yes, I'm surprised that Marvel wasn't the first to do this. Honestly, I really don't think they will be too much further behind.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

I asked my local comic shop about this going digital thing and he sounded nervous as hell. I'm nervous too. I have no idea how I'm going to archive my comics digitally. Is DC offering comic owners a way of digitizing their collections? Is there anyway to digitize our collections?

 

[Themanofbat]

I like a hard copy in my hands... interpret as you wish...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

"All digital" is somewhat misleading. DC's still releasing hard copies. If they weren't, I wouldn't be buying any of their comics, as opposed to the very few I do intend to pick up after the relaunch.

Personally, I never intend to buy a comic solely in a digital format. I've read a few digitally via Comixology and Marvel's digital reader for the novelty of it, but I would never make digital my sole means of obtaining comics. If hard copies ever go away completely, so too does my interest in reading comics altogether.

 

[Dread]

That is the dilemma, isn't it?

For a long time, it has been an unkept secret that DC and Marvel are selling a habit more than a product, and it is a fan's long term investment in a given franchise or universe that keeps them coming at least as much as the quality of the actual product. However, once that habit is broken, for whatever reason, the fan seems to not come back, or take an extended break from the hobby - often years, occasionally a decade or more.

Companies use stunts to try to drum up business but it often just produces a one or two month spike, and cycling them like a train strains retailers and fans. Too rarely do they realize that they are better at producing "jumping OFF points" than the opposite.

The only two DC books I read are BOOSTER GOLD and BATMAN BEYOND; the former because I've been on it since issue #1 and I still like it. It should be ending in another 2 months. In theory it is being replaced by a relaunch of JLI, but will I follow along? I'm partisan at best, honestly. Lord knows many hardcore DC fans won't be gobbling up as many new titles at DC as they are ditching.

Day and date digital is inevitable for the industry. ARCHIE has already done it, and Dark Horse is making baby steps. Marvel has released a few comics that way. The issue is that by keeping digital prices high, as in over 99 cents (and especially $2.99 for ANY length of time), DC risks undercutting retailers while doing little to aid NEW readers in investing. To someone who has never read a comic for pay before, $1.99 an issue may seem a bit much, especially $2.99. Most of those readers may not know that in 4 weeks the price will drop, and in 4 weeks they may lose interest. Thus, all DC may do is shift some of their readers from retailers to digital, which is a net loss of retailer revenue (and Diamond revenue).

The big two can't invest 100% in digital because they still rely on the direct market...for now. Part of me has long wondered if Marvel and DC are playing a game of chicken with it, seeing how much cash they can make until the DM collapses and they're forced to invest into digital properly. It is akin to that lone person who kept playing blackjack at the sinking Titannic, because with fewer players and an anxious dealer, he was sure to win. The dilemma is knowing when to flee before going down with the ship.

Marvel will rip off what works for DC in the short term, instead of learning what doesn't. Marvel is a company that only imitates short term successes they get from flash-in-the-pan stunts and gimmicks, and refuses to acknowledge successes they get from more fundamental strategies that often arose by pure accident. The lesson of THOR was to give a franchise that is struggling a proper rest of 2-3 years while signaling to readers & retailers that you WON'T just relaunch it without it being a damn good relaunch, and then when the void is reaching critical mass, announce a hot creative team and promote the **** out of it. Instead, Marvel just keeps throwing Black Panther, Punisher, Daredevil and Moon Knight into the rinse cycle.

Same as DC should have learned from WALKING DEAD, a small little title that has gained readers almost every month for 7 years, that the best way to increase sales long term is to have a great creative team on a franchise that is well liked, to invest in it, and keep the trade collections reasonably priced and quickly coming. However, what do you expect from DC now that their comics are run by Bob Harras, on whose watch Marvel literally went bankrupt on? DC had a LOT of small books that didn't sell as well as many Marvel B, C, and D list books, but their audiences were consistent. In April, Gail Simone's two books saw sales gains for literally no reason besides reader interest in her skill. Instead, DC have decided to go double or nothing on a market flooding gimmick that is literally being spear-headed by two men who seem to still be living in 1996 (Harras and Jim Lee). They make Austin Powers appear adaptive.

It is worth noting that as Marvel reprints all their old digests to make sure they're all priced at $9.99, even those old RUNAWAYS ones that led to a successful second volume relaunch when priced at $7.99, ARCHIE is keeping their digests priced at about $3.99 or $4.99. Guess which digests routinely see appearances in chain retailers like RITE AID. It isn't Marvel.

 

[hippie_hunter]

First off, f*** blu ray man. I mean it looks nice but $30 for a movie? Really? Who are the people out there paying that much for something they'll likely watch once?

Unless you go to someplace like FYE, most retailers sell blu-rays at about $20. I see plenty of under $10 blu-ray titles. Hell, I just paid less than $20 for True Grit and Green Lantern: Emerald Knights that were just released on Tuesday. I paid less than $15 for 127 Hours.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Blu-Rays have come down almost to DVD prices. I usually pick up the BR/DVD combo packs most studios release films in now for about $20. That's like $5 more than the DVD price for the DVD and a Blu-Ray and sometimes even a digital copy of the movie. Pretty good value, all things considered.

Actually, that might be a good way for DC to break through to the hard copy lovers like TMOB and me. Give us codes with the (already more expensive) hard copy versions of the comics that allow us to download digital copies for free. Break us in slowly, on our own terms, and let us see that maybe digital comics aren't so bad. That'd certainly be a better option than someday just cutting out hard copies altogether and alienating fans of the tactile sensation of holding a comic book to the point that they risk our abandoning the hobby altogether.

 

[kguillou]

Thats actually a really good idea Corp. I've always wondered for the longest time why Marvel and DC dont just include a free bonus issue of one of their books within their dvds and blu rays. Like, When Sin City came out on DVD, the special edition had AN ENTIRE GRAPHIC NOVEL packaged with the dvd. I mean thats a n easy EASY way to put comics into peoples' hands and potentially get them hooked. There's no excuse why The Dark Knight dvds didnt have a bonus copy of Batman Year One or Killing Joke. Again, maybe I'm being naive and things just arent that simple, but Marvel and DC really need to start taking serious advantage of their current Hollywood power.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Thats actually a really good idea Corp. I've always wondered for the longest time why Marvel and DC dont just include a free bonus issue of one of their books within their dvds and blu rays. Like, When Sin City came out on DVD, the special edition had AN ENTIRE GRAPHIC NOVEL packaged with the dvd. I mean thats a n easy EASY way to put comics into peoples' hands and potentially get them hooked. There's no excuse why The Dark Knight dvds didnt have a bonus copy of Batman Year One or Killing Joke. Again, maybe I'm being naive and things just arent that simple, but Marvel and DC really need to start taking serious advantage of their current Hollywood power.

Well, you kind of are. I mean, those do cost money to print and ship. And it's just a big risk, really, because then you're putting your faith in those people to make the leap to buying comics. If they don't, you just threw money away. Not to mention, if there are people interested in buying those books and just those, you gimped yourself several sales on it. It's just a leap of faith type of deal that they probably don't see as warranted for an entire GN/Trade.

 

[kguillou]

I mean thats true, but again Sin City did it, they gave away a whole trade and i'm sure Dark Horse has much much less money to throw around than marvel or dc. And i'm not saying give away a whole trade either. Like in the Ironman dvds, it would've been perfect if they included say the first issue of Warren Ellis' Ironman Extremis. Give the potential millions of people who are buying your dvds a taste of the comics.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I mean thats true, but again Sin City did it, they gave away a whole trade and i'm sure Dark Horse has much much less money to throw around than marvel or dc. And i'm not saying give away a whole trade either. Like in the Ironman dvds, it would've been perfect if they included say the first issue of Warren Ellis' Ironman Extremis. Give the potential millions of people who are buying your dvds a taste of the comics.

That is true, I actually that SE of Sin City. I guess the question then is if it really worked or not, and how do you gauge if it did or not? I'm not really sure.

But yeah, I could agree with that. Like a single issue or mini-comic; they actually did that for the SE of Batman Begins. But to be far, you did mention Year One and The Killing Joke as bundled with TDK as your example

 

[TheCorpulent1]

This whole issue would easily be taken care of if the films come with a digital reader and the first issue of those respective comics on the DVD or Blu-Ray. They'd be reprints, so there's no issue of cost to produce the issues, the comics would get exposure but only one issue's worth, enticing those so inclined to seek out the remainder of the issues or a trade of the whole story, and it'd fit right in line with DC's post-relaunch push for digital.

 

[kguillou]

I agree, i dont know how the marketing people over at Marvel and DC haven't already thought of this because its a no brainer. The Dark knight made nearly a billion at the box office and DC did....absolutely nothing to capitalize on that. The SE dvd of Dark Knight barely has any extra content on it at all. Although, in all fairness i do seem to recall that in the SE of Spider-man 3 there was a special mini comic by Bendis and Bagley. There was also a mini comic that came with X-men Last Stand. Ironically those are both the worst movies of their respective franchises, but at least they tried something.

But Corp's idea is probably the most no-brainer method to approach. When the Thor and Cap dvds come out later this year, it would be very wise of marvel to include a digital copy of Fraction's The Mighty Thor #1 and Brubaker and Mcniven's Captain America #1. I guarantee at least a few people would gain interest in the books and isn't that the point?

 

[Tron Bonne]

Well, as I mentioned, they actually did do the mini-comic thing with Batman Begins. I think the lack of extras for TDK came more from Nolan than anything. When he has the freedom to do so, he usually bypasses putting a lot of extras on his films' home media release.

I think the real reason behind them not doing this is that they know it doesn't really work, because it if was so simple to get people who watched the movies to make the jump to comics just by liking the films, the medium would be exploding like never before. Ticket sales just don't translate to sales behind a month or two's worth of bumps.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Hell, since BRs are roomy as hell and there is, as mentioned, virtually no cost to digitally reprinting extant comics, they could go ahead and put a few milestone issues in there as well to show the characters at their best from throughout their long and storied histories. For example, on the Thor BR, they could throw in Journey into Mystery #83, Thor #337 (Simonson's first issue), Jurgens' Thor #1, JMS' Thor #1, etc.

 

[kguillou]

Again, i dont see the harm in doing that. I mean Codename Sailor V's probably right in that Marvel and DC deep down know that a successful movie doesnt affect comic sales. But hell, what the hell do they have to lose by including digital comics on their dvd and blu ray releases? Movie sales don't affect comic sales true, but i guarantee you it would if the actual product was more available to a wider range of customers. Mcfarlane's Spiderman #1 sold a million copies when it came out. Could you imagine how much it would have sold if Raimi's Spiderman movies had came out around that same time?

 

[Tron Bonne]

You can't really compare Spider-Man #1's era to this one, though, vastly different marketplace. And, you know, I've said this before and I generally stand by it; I really don't think the availability of comics is the issue that many others do. I mean, it's not like people don't know comics are out there. True, the primary place for singles is still the LCS, but really, mainstream bookstores have them out enough that if people were really interested they could get them with relative ease. The simple fact is that they just aren't that interested in doing so. I don't know how to reach people and get them into the medium really, but trying to ape them from the general film audience, in my opinion, just isn't going to work.

But you're right, I don't know what they have to lose. I guess just the costs of whatever it costs to do that, and if it's cheap, it shouldn't be an issue.