Woman Kidnapped, Tortured, & Sexually Assaulted for a week

[StrainedEyes]

I live in the South of W.V. not to far from Logan and none of this surprised me at all. There are alot of people like them here in W.V. but then again there are alot of people like them all over the US. It's not JUST in the Southwest of W.V.

It's not the location that's the problem, It's the upbringing and education of these people that's the problem.

Not really, W.V. as well as a bunch of the southern states, is still very much racist. Alot moreso than the rest of the country. There are alot of racists everywhere, but there are more down south. Which you're right, has to do with upbringing, but it's more likely a child is being raised by racists parents in W.V. then in Manhattan.

 

[terry78]

I'm telling you right now, aside from maybe a few of us, most black people will immediately think tehy did this because she was black. Not saying it's right, but that's what we will think. Hell, that's what I thought when I saw it in the paper, and it made me angry even moreso because she was black. Is it stupid for me to feel that way? In your opinion, maybe so. But it's not changing anytime soon. You can't always substitute "rational thinking" with personal anger. I would feel the same if the roles were reversed race wise, because they wouldn't have an excuse for doing it to a white girl either.

 

[PemLam]

In the long run I don't think it matters if it was race driven or not...what I do know is when these scum bags get into prison, they discover what true torture, abuse and rape are...at the hands of their fellow inmates.

In virtually every prison, rapists are the lowest form of criminal (with the exception of anyone harming a child).

 

[Cyrusbales]

If you're gonna hold them hostage and rape them etc, why cut them up and make them bloody? It's like shooting yourself in the foot really.

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm telling you right now, aside from maybe a few of us, most black people will immediately think tehy did this because she was black. Not saying it's right, but that's what we will think. Hell, that's what I thought when I saw it in the paper, and it made me angry even moreso because she was black. Is it stupid for me to feel that way? In your opinion, maybe so. But it's not changing anytime soon. You can't always substitute "rational thinking" with personal anger. I would feel the same if the roles were reversed race wise, because they wouldn't have an excuse for doing it to a white girl either.

Yep! That's exactly what I thought when I read it. Even if it wasn't a race issue, they tortured the girl for a week! Charge them as a hate crime, give them more time to do! That's just...............crazy to torture someone like that!

 

[chamber-music]

Not really, W.V. as well as a bunch of the southern states, is still very much racist. Alot moreso than the rest of the country. There are alot of racists everywhere, but there are more down south. Which you're right, has to do with upbringing, but it's more likely a child is being raised by racists parents in W.V. then in Manhattan.

I know its not Politically Correct but the most people across the world still accosiate the American South with Racism. Stuff like this in the media unfortunately reinforces those sterotypes even though most people in the south aren't racist.

 

[terry78]

Even if it wasn't motivated by that, don't deviate from the main issue by trying to prove it wasn't racist. Just focus on those 6 that deserve to have to done to them what Michael Vick did to his dogs.

 

[Docker2.0]

I was born in Georgia but now live in New Jersey and I'll be honest, I have experienced more racism in NJ in the past 3 years that I have in the past 20+ years in Ga. I think it's actually worse up north. I know the Jenna(spelling?) case in Louisana has people thinking it's much worse down south, and in certain parts it is, but ................it's just more open in the north, IMHO.

 

[chamber-music]

I was born in Georgia but now live in New Jersey and I'll be honest, I have experienced more racism in NJ in the past 3 years that I have in the past 20+ years in Ga. I think it's actually worse up north. I know the Jenna(spelling?) case in Louisana has people thinking it's much worse down south, and in certain parts it is, but ................it's just more open in the north, IMHO.

Your probabley right but I think public perception is still that the south is more racist than the north.

Anyway it doesn't really matter what the motives for these people was, they where vile people.

 

[CyberFaust]

I think the real person we should blame is GR87, I think he had his hand in this.

if you have pitchforks i've got the torches

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Each of the people involved in this crime deserve only one thing, a bullet in their head.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I'm telling you right now, aside from maybe a few of us, most black people will immediately think tehy did this because she was black. Not saying it's right, but that's what we will think. Hell, that's what I thought when I saw it in the paper, and it made me angry even moreso because she was black. Is it stupid for me to feel that way? In your opinion, maybe so. But it's not changing anytime soon. You can't always substitute "rational thinking" with personal anger. I would feel the same if the roles were reversed race wise, because they wouldn't have an excuse for doing it to a white girl either.

So, the thousands of White women that are raped by Black men every year....are those "Hate Crimes"?, or just "normal" crimes?

 

[EdRyder]

So, the thousands of White women that are raped by Black men every year....are those "Hate Crimes"?, or just "normal" crimes?

Now see-This is the hyperbolic black hole of public discourse that needs to be avoided.
Public perception is moot-Moot AT BEST
You all need to spare yourself the headache
Please dont misunderstand me as jaguarr did.Im not trying to tell you how to think or feel.Im trying to be Practical not pretentious.

The Public Perception and the Courtroom are two completely different universes-Like oil and water they dont mix.
Think-think about every case thats been drawn out in the public eye this year alone
Think of all the loooong cases from the past.

Now I want you to think of all the FACTS that the public was made aware of that were withheld from the Jury's...

See what Im getting at-"Nancy Grace-ing" up every case with your "feelings" is moot

Yes, think about the unfairness of it all,..Theres a blanket unfairness in the sentencing of sexually based crimes to begin with,as well as an unfairness of trying the victim.So why not be all for every charge the state can reign down when applicable?

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

So why not be all for every charge the state can reign down when applicable?

Right. So every time a Black man rapes a White woman, it should be deemed a Hate Crime. Right?

 

[jaguarr]

So why not be all for every charge the state can reign down when applicable?

So, the key word there is "applicable", which to me indicates that there has to be hard evidence to support any legal claims regarding criminal misconduct. This is often not the case with many "hate crimes" where we have people in the legal system who look for ways to MAKE hate crime laws applicable to the situation at hand in order to reap the benefits of stricter punishments for the offenders. This sets a terrible legal precedence, is an abuse of the system, and steers us away from sticking to the actual facts of the case and back towards going with our feelings, which you just wrote a diatribe against. In this particular case, we've got a tidbit of information that suggests there might be some racial motivation involved, but it's difficult to say how well it would hold up in court at this point in time. If it comes out that these atrocities were committed against this woman at least in part because of the color of her skin, then by all means lets use those hate crime laws to harshen their sentences. But, in the same breath, let's not try to invent a hate crime situation if the evidence isn't there to truly support it, either. Like you said, let's stick with the facts and the evidence. To do otherwise is irresponsible and undermines our entire judicial system.

jag

 

[EdRyder]

Right. So every time a Black man rapes a White woman, it should be deemed a Hate Crime. Right?

How about every crime-not just sexually based ones?
Im not who cares for the rights and freedoms of the accused

Im also one who gives less than a F#$@ for "sending a message" to criminals via a harsher sentance.Im the guy thats for convicting and serving the maximum time allowed.Its the PENAL system-hence the penalties-Theres a difference between paying your debt to the victim and putting you away so that you dont have the opportunity to re offend on another-In my eyes,that is

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

How about every crime-not just sexually based ones?

So, every crime is a Hate crime?

 

[EdRyder]

So, the key word there is "applicable", which to me indicates that there has to be hard evidence to support any legal claims regarding criminal misconduct. This is often not the case with many "hate crimes" where we have people in the legal system who look for ways to MAKE hate crime laws applicable to the situation at hand in order to reap the benefits of stricter punishments for the offenders. This sets a terrible legal precedence, is an abuse of the system, and steers us away from sticking to the actual facts of the case and back towards going with our feelings, which you just wrote a diatribe against. In this particular case, we've got a tidbit of information that suggests there might be some racial motivation involved, but it's difficult to say how well it would hold up in court at this point in time. If it comes out that these atrocities were committed against this woman at least in part because of the color of her skin, then by all means lets use those hate crime laws to harshen their sentences. But, in the same breath, let's not try to invent a hate crime situation if the evidence isn't there to truly support it, either. Like you said, let's stick with the facts and the evidence. To do otherwise is irresponsible and undermines our entire judicial system.

jag

You make a great point jag and I agree 100%-But the fact is -As you said you have to charge them now and play it out in court.Or,If new evidence came forward during the trial,then you can add the hate crime charge.You know as well as I do they only way it will stick in this particular case,the only evidence it was a hate crime-will be testimony from a defendant

 

[jaguarr]

H
Im not who cares for the rights and freedoms of the accused

So, screw due process and ensuring that the accused is truly the perpetrator of the crime they are accused of?

You make a great point jag and I agree 100%-But the fact is -As you said you have to charge them now and play it out in court.Or,If new evidence came forward during the trial,then you can add the hate crime charge.You know as well as I do they only way it will stick in this particular case,the only evidence it was a hate crime-will be testimony from a defendant

See, this is where it gets sticky. Testimony from the defendant amounts to heresay if there is no taped evidence or admission from the accused that corroborates that testimony. Victims can often become very vindictive (and hey, who would blame them?) and can embellish certain parts of their mistreatment or even lie so that it gives them a highly racist stant, knowing that it will result in even harsher penalties for their attackers. They can also be coached by the prosecuting counsel to do these things as well. And then we're back to trying a case based on feelings without real cold, hard evidence. Heresay is inadmissible in most other court proceedings, yet we make this exception for certain types of crimes because of the emotion around them and the horrific nature of the crimes committed so that harsher punishments can be doled out. To me, that's an abuse of the system. Not that I give a rat's ass about the criminals. Guilty is guilty and they should suffer for their sins. But, that suffering should be based on the facts of what they did, not things that don't have supporting evidence.

jag

 

[EdRyder]

So, every crime is a Hate crime?

Answered

Lets put the ball in your court-Did you read the smoking gun link?Are you informed of what the 6 defendants are accused of?

Kidnapping maximum sentence is =80 years
Torture=15 years
Rape=Varies,but the Max is a Life Sentence
The Hate Crime charge is a max of 11 years I believe.
So the Hate Crime charge is in fact the smallest fish in the pond

Why would you have a problem with someone receiving "Life plus 116 years"?

 

[chamber-music]

I'm surprised the story was on BBC news today. Seems like its gone international like the whole Jenna thing.

 

[EdRyder]

So, screw due process and ensuring that the accused is truly the perpetrator of the crime they are accused of?



See, this is where it gets sticky. Testimony from the defendant amounts to heresay if there is no taped evidence or admission from the accused that corroborates that testimony. Victims can often become very vindictive (and hey, who would blame them?) and can embellish certain parts of their mistreatment or even lie so that it gives them a highly racist stant, knowing that it will result in even harsher penalties for their attackers. They can also be coached by the prosecuting counsel to do these things as well. And then we're back to trying a case based on feelings without real cold, hard evidence. Heresay is inadmissible in most other court proceedings, yet we make this exception for certain types of crimes because of the emotion around them and the horrific nature of the crimes committed so that harsher punishments can be doled out. To me, that's an abuse of the system. Not that I give a rat's ass about the criminals. Guilty is guilty and they should suffer for their sins. But, that suffering should be based on the facts of what they did, not things that don't have supporting evidence.

jag

Hypothetically then-What evidence in this case is required to convince jaguarr that it was a hate crime?

 

[jaguarr]

Hypothetically then-What evidence in this case is required to convince jaguarr that it was a hate crime?

I just told you; a tape recording of the accused making these comments that are filled with racial hate or an admission from the accused that corroborates the story of the victim on this. Anything else is heresay.

jag

 

[Superman]

This is all moot anyway. The DA has decided not to charge them with a hate crime.


U.S. attorney: No hate charges 'at this time' against W.Va. torture suspects

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (CNN) -- U.S. prosecutors said Wednesday they will not file federal charges "at this time" against any of the six West Virginians accused of kidnapping, torturing and sexually assaulting a 20-year-old woman.

"Because of the serious nature of the pending charges in Logan County, both in the factual allegations and in the potential penalties if the defendants are convicted, we have and will continue to work closely with local authorities in this case," U.S. Attorney Charles T. Miller said in a written statement.

County Prosecutor Brian Abraham said Tuesday that federal officials were investigating whether the suspects, who are white, were guilty of carrying out a hate crime against Megan Williams, who is black. (Posted 4:36 p.m.)


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/12/wednesday/index.html

 

[jaguarr]

This is all moot anyway. The DA has decided not to charge them with a hate crime.


U.S. attorney: No hate charges 'at this time' against W.Va. torture suspects

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (CNN) -- U.S. prosecutors said Wednesday they will not file federal charges "at this time" against any of the six West Virginians accused of kidnapping, torturing and sexually assaulting a 20-year-old woman.

"Because of the serious nature of the pending charges in Logan County, both in the factual allegations and in the potential penalties if the defendants are convicted, we have and will continue to work closely with local authorities in this case," U.S. Attorney Charles T. Miller said in a written statement.

County Prosecutor Brian Abraham said Tuesday that federal officials were investigating whether the suspects, who are white, were guilty of carrying out a hate crime against Megan Williams, who is black. (Posted 4:36 p.m.)


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/12/wednesday/index.html

Yep, sort of what I thought; not enough to charge them with a hate crime and have it stick. If they get enough evidence to make that kind of charge viable later on, they may bring it back into play.

jag