Women in Combat

[Thundercrack85]

I figure this goes here, since it's long been a political hot potato.

What do people think about the recent change? In America anyway. A couple of countries already allow women in direct combat roles.

 

[Kelly]

I think they should have the chance, but I do not believe they should go by a different criteria, physically or mentally. If they can physically and mentally pass whatever tests they need to in order to handle these jobs, then more power to them.

 

[moviedoors]

Are women going to have to register for the draft now too?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Are women going to have to register for the draft now too?

Nope.

 

[Schlosser85]

I think if they can pass the same physical and mental exams as men, then they should be treated the same.

There are both men and women who aren't cut out for combat, and there are also women who are just as tough and capable as any man, so it should just go by the individual, not their gender.

 

[Figs]

I think they should have the chance, but I do not believe they should go by a different criteria, physically or mentally. If they can physically and mentally pass whatever tests they need to in order to handle these jobs, then more power to them.

It's great to see a woman say this. I know a few cops and a few firefighters who said that they had to lower their test standards when more and more woman joined on.

That's a problem we could face with our army/military.

As you and Schlosser said, as long as they can pass the current exams, primarily physical, I have no problem with this.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

It's great to see a woman say this. I know a few cops and a few firefighters who said that they had to lower their test standards when more and more woman joined on.

That's a problem we could face with our army/military.

As you and Schlosser said, as long as they can past the current exams, primarily physical, I have no problem with this.

I agree on that front as well. My dad used to go out on forest fires a lot before he retired and said they lowered the standards for smokejumpers to get women to pass. They lowered the pack test (carry a full load for 2 miles in under a certain time) from 85 to 50 lbs. Considering a fully-loaded smokejumper was at the higher weight, the result was that they were no longer required to packed out their own gear and it had to be recovered by an equipment retrieval team. This added unnecessary logistics and also added delays since the teams couldn't get deployed as quickly if they were needed elsewhere on that fire.

 

[Marvolo]

As long as they can handle it Im 100% in support of it. But there should be the same set of standard mental and physical tests that both men and women have to pass to go into combat. It does the women no good to pass easier tests adjusted for perceived weaknesses of their sex and be in the same combat as men. Its dangerous and foolish. Give them the some training and tests.

 

[Figs]

I'm glad I'm not the only one to feel this way. When I made my post I was expecting some people to call me a sexist A hole.

 

[Cosmic]

1. Women are already serving in combat roles. The intel teams, pilots, nurses, corpsmen and medics, supply specialists and others working outside the wire should get the same recognition as men, for performing under the same risk conditions. It made no sense to say that women can't go into combat, when they're already in situations where they can be (and have been) killed or wounded in combat zones.

2. Women have been barred from performing certain jobs purely on the basis of their gender. I think that the military has an obligation to at least explain the reasons why women cannot be allowed to perform a particular job. There's no need to lower physical standards to make it easier for women to meet the requirements for jobs that they can now potentially be allowed to perform. There is a need, IMO, to prove against discrimination.

3. A lot of people are misinterpreting what this change will mean for the future. You're not going to see women joining the front-line grunts in the infantry, or operating with SEAL teams because of this.

 

[Kelly]

1. Women are already serving in combat roles. The intel teams, pilots, nurses, corpsmen and medics, supply specialists and others working outside the wire should get the same recognition as men, for performing under the same risk conditions. It made no sense to say that women can't go into combat, when they're already in situations where they can be (and have been) killed or wounded in combat zones.

2. Women have been barred from performing certain jobs purely on the basis of their gender. I think that the military has an obligation to at least explain the reasons why women cannot be allowed to perform a particular job. There's no need to lower physical standards to make it easier for women to meet the requirements for jobs that they can now potentially be allowed to perform. There is a need, IMO, to prove against discrimination.

3. A lot of people are misinterpreting what this change will mean for the future. You're not going to see women joining the front-line grunts in the infantry, or operating with SEAL teams because of this.

I know of one woman (She was interviewed the other day on Fox) that hopes to become "Sniper"....Women have not been able to be a part of the USMC Sniper School or the Army Sniper School because they have not been allowed as you put it to be joining the "Front-line grunts in the infantry. With this new law, she is going to do just that...so I think the changes are more far reaching than people think. Senior Airman Jennifer Donaldson from the Illinois Air National Guard has become the first woman to be trained at the only U.S. military sniper school open to females. She was graduated April 14, 2001 from the National Guard Sniper School's first countersniper course for Air Guard security force personnel. The reason she was able to do it before this law was because she was a part of the Air National Guard.

If she can pass the physical and mental tests that the men do, then she should be able to do just that.....

 

[Paradoxium]

Lowering physical standards to meet unofficial quotas seems kinda inevitable. They did it in New York with firecrews. It wasn't under the radar, it was on the news.

 

[Kelly]

Lowering physical standards to meet unofficial quotas seems kinda inevitable. They did it in New York with female firecrews

I watched an interview with a retired Iraq soldier who said something that I thought was very interesting.

"If it is just you and your fellow soldier, and he is hit....he weighs 200lbs and is 6.5 can you carry him to safety.....he could definitely carry you (to the female soldier)."

I thought that was very interesting....

What many women in military are saying is that the standards for older soldiers being deployed have been lowered and they are on the front line...so that should not be an issue.

I have to admit, what the first soldier said, was very telling....IMO.

 

[Paradoxium]

What you saying they can meet the already reduced standards? Or do you mean, it's always getting reduced

 

[Kelly]

What you saying they can meet the already reduced standards? Or do you mean, it's always getting reduced

Who? The women, or older soldiers in combat???

 

[Paradoxium]

In New York they don't care if a female firefighter can't lift a 200+ lb man out of a burning building.

Let's be honest, they are going to relax standards directly or indirectly. It's inevitable.

I have no issue with this anyways for two reasons:

There is an instinct by many to protect women, and it might unintentionally stop popularity support of dumb wars. And if a draft ever happened in my life time, I am going to enjoy watching feminists squirm, because of the precedence this sets.

 

[Paradoxium]

Who? The women, or older soldiers in combat???

Yea I re-read it again. I get it.

I just got confused out of a mental hiccup.

 

[Kelly]

To me, as far as those crying for full equality, we are going to see the problems that the "equal pay" brings forth.

I have a feeling we will start to see the flexible schedules go away, the "in house" child care...

It's like these people go screaming into the street "I want equality in all things" and then realize....it ain't so great in an equal world...where "Fair is not always equal, and equal is not always fair...." : /

I am in a career where their is a fair amount of equality between men and women....except in the area of coaching. IMO, if the hours are equal, the pay should be equal. Ex: right now in my district, women's sports are the big winners right now, they are the ones with the winning seasons.....YET, the women coaches barely make 1/2 of what the men make. AND, (this happens a lot) women coaches are more likely to have to teach an almost full schedule of classes, whereas male head coaches in larger districts, usually do not.

So, even in occupations where there is a great amount of equality, you will still find areas that are far from equal.

Military......wow, this is a whole other animal.

 

[Scourge2099]

I have no problem with the American military allowing women into combat roles.17 countries allow women to fight on the front lines.

 

[Kelly]

I have no problem with the American military allowing women into combat roles.17 countries allow women to fight on the front lines.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/26/w...israel-for-clues-on-women-in-combat.html?_r=0

 

[Scourge2099]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/26/w...israel-for-clues-on-women-in-combat.html?_r=0

That's what I told some dude a couple of days ago. I was like if women are good enough to fight in the Israeli Defense Force , then they are good to fight in the US military.

 

[Cosmic]

I know of one woman (She was interviewed the other day on Fox) that hopes to become "Sniper"....Women have not been able to be a part of the USMC Sniper School or the Army Sniper School because they have not been allowed as you put it to be joining the "Front-line grunts in the infantry. With this new law, she is going to do just that...so I think the changes are more far reaching than people think.

Yes, it's theoretically possible. In practice, it will depend on the standards for each individual specialty. The rules and standards for specialties can change at any time. It's a good thing that now the services will have to justify why a specialty has strict rules or exceptionally high physical requirements, but it can be done.

Senior Airman Jennifer Donaldson from the Illinois Air National Guard has become the first woman to be trained at the only U.S. military sniper school open to females. She was graduated April 14, 2001 from the National Guard Sniper School's first countersniper course for Air Guard security force personnel. The reason she was able to do it before this law was because she was a part of the Air National Guard.

If she can pass the physical and mental tests that the men do, then she should be able to do just that.....

That's great, but there's a huge difference between an Air National Guard countersniper and a USMC sniper. She might be perched on a rooftop or in a window somewhere. She's not going to be operating behind enemy lines in a foreign land, in a small team with little to no direct support. I'm going to hazard a guess that USMC snipers have to pass more demanding tests and requirements than Air National Guard snipers.

 

[The Question]

And if a draft ever happened in my life time, I am going to enjoy watching feminists squirm, because of the precedence this sets.

You're going to have to elaborate on that.

 

[Quasimod0]

So are women required to sign up for a possible draft now?

 

[Kelly]

Yes, it's theoretically possible. In practice, it will depend on the standards for each individual specialty. The rules and standards for specialties can change at any time. It's a good thing that now the services will have to justify why a specialty has strict rules or exceptionally high physical requirements, but it can be done.



That's great, but there's a huge difference between an Air National Guard countersniper and a USMC sniper. She might be perched on a rooftop or in a window somewhere. She's not going to be operating behind enemy lines in a foreign land, in a small team with little to no direct support. I'm going to hazard a guess that USMC snipers have to pass more demanding tests and requirements than Air National Guard snipers.

Oh, I have no doubt.....the very fact that within 2 other branches of the armed forces women could not, yet in this particular they could....says a lot.

I'm sure is a definite.