Wonder Woman 1984 SPOILER Review Thread

Discussion in 'Wonder Woman 1984' started by FeedOnATreeFrog, Dec 16, 2020.

  1. FeedOnATreeFrog (A Metal Gear reference)

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    Here are my scattered thoughts.

    Similar to the first movie, I think the film has a lot of faults, from visuals to writing, but the heart at its core is so strong, something you rarely ever see in these blockbuster films, that I still kind of love it.

    The joy of say...the fireworks scene, or Diana's flight, are worth the price of admission alone.

    However, some of the execution of these emotional moments was kind of clunky, specifically with Lord and his kid at the end. Jenkins tries so hard to make that poignant, but it comes across a little bit laughable with the sad kid walking around, calling for daddy. I just didn't buy it for whatever reason. It's a shame, because I think the groundwork was solid. Just didn't quite buy it in the climax. I think some of the handling of Lord's character and his goals were a little muddled at times as well, though the overall wish fulfilment conceit was so unique and captivating.

    Regarding Cheetah, I think it was quite enjoyable for the first half, but then once she breaks bad, and especially when she turns into the Cheetah itself, I realized that there hadn't been enough build up between her and Diana, and her story wasn't connected enough to Diana's story. At this point Diana was more pre-occupied with other things in the story (Trevor / Lord) that losing a brand new friend didn't seem to mean much. Similar problem to Harry's treatment in TASM2 honestly. So, I think they either should have made it more central to Diana's story (like if Cheetah was the result of Diana's selfish wish), or kept her downfall for the third film. Visually, I thought they did a good job, as did Wigg, so it's easy to give it props (especially considering a lot of people were doubting how cool Cheetah could be), but at the end of the day, the writing let the character down. And with the character changing back at the end, I feel like some potential was definitely lost.

    Also, despite how cool Cheetah looked, IMO Jenkins doesn't always have the best visual eye. I get that some of the cheese is intentional, but some of those green-screen scenes of WW running to the camera are just corny, and not in a good way, and it makes WW seem lame sometimes. I think for superhero films, if kids don't come out of the theatre thinking the hero is cool, it's a bit of a failure on that basic level. It's the same problem say Superman Returns or Green Lantern had. There's a balance to be struck, and I think it just doesn't quite pull it off sometimes.

    That being said, while I'm focusing on some of the faults, the film's many strengths go without saying, from everyone's performances, to Jenkins' reverence of the character. And Diana's story of letting go of Steve was just so strong, that it still brings the film up to like a 4/5 for me.

    Her walking away from Steve, not even allowing us to see him disappear, and then Diana's wounds healing and then flying for the first time, was just one of the best WW moments ever.
     
    #1 FeedOnATreeFrog, Dec 16, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
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  2. Green Goblin Crawling on walls

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    This is a really good film, not as good as the first film though.

    Gal Gadot is a terrific Wonder Woman. She's able to balance the fierceness of a Amazonian with compassion and heart of a classic superhero. She's definitely one of the best, if not the best castings in the DCEU.

    Kirstin Wigg worked well as Cheetah. When I first saw her I thought she was too comical and hard to emphasize with like Jamie Foxx as Max Dillion but the film explores her motivations and character well throughout the movie. I really liked the scene when she sees the man who attempted to rape her earlier in the film. Using her new found powers on him was a really powerful scene, you can empathise with her but your also horrified at what she's doing. The CGI on her was fine.

    Maxwell Lord is portrayed brilliantly by Pedro Pascal. He's not a Donald Trump clone which is nice. He's portrayed much more sympathetically than I thought they would based on the trailers but it's a welcome change. He's not just a rich scumbag who wants even more, he's a flawed father who wants to prove to his son and the world that he's a great man despite his difficult upbringing and snake oil salesman personality.

    The action here is a bit of a let down. Other than the Egypt sequence the other action sequences pale in comparison to other films. The final fight wasn't very long and I found it hard to believe Wonder Woman would struggle taking on security guards in the White House when she's faced off against Ares and ran through No Man's Land.

    Steve Trevor is done well with Chris Pine once again. They have real chemistry and it's a highlight of the film just like it was in the first. Sure we all knew he would return to death by the films end but I did like how he and Diana parted. She's accepts it after wrestling with the notion throughout the movie and Steve "dies again" off screen.

    The third act is quite messy. Like time travel mechanics in science fiction the wishing stone becomes very convoluted as the film progresses. We don't even get any clarity to it's aftermath, does the world still remember all that has happened or is it just the physical effects that are reversed?

    In terms of tone it's different from the first. This is much more like a Richard Donner film than anything I've seen in a bit. The mall robbery sequence especially felt like something he'd have directed. I'd have preferred they kept the first movie's tone but I'll take this.

    Lastly is the score. Hans Zimmer does a fine job with it but he does reuse two of his previous tracks in this; Time from Inception during Diana's flight to the final battle and Beautiful Lie from BvS as she tries to convince Maxwell Lord to renounce his wish in the film's climax. It didn't bother me but I can see him doing that as divisive for those that care for film scores.

    Overall, I really liked it. It's easily the second best DCEU film in my opinion. I liked how there's no set up for sequels or cinematic universes, this is a stand alone experience and it's so refreshing to see that when it seems Hollywood is obsessed with the MCU's episodic story telling.
    8/10
     
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  3. Filmfan93 The Man in Black

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    Really enjoyed the film at the cinema and the wishing aspect was quite fun to watch.

    Just wish there was more action in the film, especially with WW vs Cheetah at the end - the golden suit looked perfect, but it was used far too little.

    Diana renouncing her wish and learning how to fly had me goosebumping everywhere. Same with "Beautiful Lie" scene at the end. Gadot as Diana is iconic by this point and what Superman should've been.

    8/10, because there were a bit cheesy moments at times (mall scene, Pascal's overacting at places), but overall another solid entry. Jenkins definitely knows her stuff and I really hope she stays at the helm for the character.
     
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  4. Gu3ree Registered

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    Just saw the film here in Japan. I enjoyed it but I’m not sure if I enjoyed it better than the first film. But before getting into any of my thoughts on the story, first off, I need to get this off my chest, unless someone hasn’t noticed by now, but two words: Hans Zimmer...I couldn’t help but notice he reused two of his original tracks from two different movies he composed the music for and reused those for two different scenes for WW84...but my question was...why??

    The first one I noticed he used was from his original work in “The Thin Red Line” (1998)—a film I haven’t watched but I did recall hearing this piece used in two X-Men movie trailers. (The X-Men Origins teaser trailer and Days of Future Past trailer). So for any of you that watched, it was in the scene where Wonder Woman flies.

    Oh wait, it was used in the Comic Con Man of Steel trailer too.

    While technically in the same universe, Zimmer reused the prologue opening theme from BvS toward the end of the movie.

    Well anyways, it just surprised me. Of course Zimmer reused his Wonder Woman theme from BvS, but that doesn’t count as it should be canon.

    Incidentally though, it reminds me of how Danny Elfman reused portions of his music from other movies in Josstice League. The one that really stood out was hearing the Age of Ultron theme again. Well the music scenes worked for WW84 I guess you can say, I just thought it was strange Zimmer reused his old work for a different film.
     
    #4 Gu3ree, Dec 19, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  5. The Lazarus Pit The Boy Wonder

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    That post credits scene is horrible. A total missed opportunity to either:

    A. Propel the DCEU/WW franchise further

    B. Introduce Carter as an alternate universe’s Wonder Woman before The Flash dives into the multiverse
     
  6. Gu3ree Registered

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    So on the things I didn't like...well I liked Barbara/Cheetah, but I was overall disappointed with how her character developed into Cheetah. But I was more disappointed with how she physically became Cheetah...just by Maxwell Lord granting her wish. That was how she became the Cheetah? Slightly lame in my opinion. Imagine if that was how Barry Allen became The Flash? Just by using the dream stone. I would have been more intrigued in seeing a full psychological story of how Barbara gradually transforms into Cheetah. I didn't think Barbara's friendship with Diana had enough development either. While it had its moments, I thought Patty Jenkins could have gone deeper with establishing their friendship...because they basically hung out with each other in just a single day, and it took Barbara only a few days for her to turn full-blown enemies against Diana which escalated fairly quickly. I think had there been more development with these two characters before Barbara transformed into Cheetah, it would have made the final battle that much more impactful.

    I felt the plot device with the dream stone a little too convenient because that was how Barbara became Cheetah and I was disappointed by the lack of development. In addition, I was also a little disappointed with how Steve Trevor returned and it was all because of the dream stone. It made me wonder if the stone that brought the character back to life into another man's body, or if it was just an illusion of Diana's imagination/wish. For what it was worth though, I really did enjoy Trevor being. I think Gal Gadot and Chris Pine's chemistry was largely what made the first film so successful.

    I thought the desert chase scene was decent but could have been better, but I honestly didn't find it as satisfying as the battlefield scene from the first movie, which she was far more powerful and aggressive. In the desert sequence however, Wonder Woman was far less powerful and aggressive, because of the stone, however my only issue with that was that it felt a little too reminiscent of Spider-Man 2.

    I thought it was interesting how Diana was able to turn objects invisible, and I surprised we even got the invisible jet, yet Wonder Woman never pilots. It was still cool to see.

    After addressing the invisible jet and flying though, I was surprised they made Wonder Woman actually fly--I had mixed feelings. The scene was beautiful in and of itself--even though Zimmer reused a score in this scene which he did for another movie, and I wasn't sure how I felt about that--it's just that we know Superman flies, and Wonder Woman eventually started flying in the comics in the 1950's, but did she even need to? What made me confused though was whether she was only able to fly because she was wishing for it from the stone--so she could reach the destination on time--or if she was just discovering her ability to fly? Part of my other issue with the decision to make her fly though is that since we have arrived in the 21st century, I feel like giving Wonder Woman the ability of flight feels unnecessary. I know some may strongly oppose me, it's just that, once she has obtained that ability, and she can fly, that makes her practically invincible. Okay, anyone could say the same thing about Superman, granted, but I just feel all the DCEU movies WW has appeared in, she did better without needing to fly. In the first WW movie--except for the final shot??--well it never seemed to be clear that she could indeed, fly. She did a lot of leaping. Why make her fly though at all, if she seemingly didn't fly in any of her first three appearances?

    Side note on the flying: I had one issue with the one-arm flying pose...like Superman. I say this mainly because I have been a life-long Superman fan, and I tend to criticize those that mimic Superman. I don't care if Wonder Woman flies or not, but I prefer she does it with her arms stretched out like Peter Pan and steal Superman's iconic flying pose. It's funny how Stan Lee criticized Superman for his flying and flying poses, yet incidentally, it made no sense how Iron Man does the Superman pose while flying. Thankfully they changed that in the first Iron Man movie. The reason I complain about this aside from the flying pose--also most recently Captain Marvel (who is way too much like Superman, albeit boring in my opinion)--many general audiences and superhero fans of this generation think that Superman is an imitation of Captain Marvel or any other superheroes for that matter. People may think that Superman got the classic one-arm pose from Wonder Woman, just from seeing WW84. Moreover, we had the first two Spider-Man movies where Tobey MaGuire does the iconic shirt-rip. Sadly, many people think Superman got that from Spider-Man, just from having watched Spider-Man first.

    Back to WW84. The most heartbreaking scene for me was when Diana had to give up her wish and let go of Trevor. Overall, the film had emotional scenes, albeit some moments I thought were a tad cheesy, but overall I enjoyed it. I wish Steve somehow had a bigger role and the way he returned would have involved him not actually dying in WWI, but somehow ending up time-traveling, but that wasn't the case. I enjoyed Kirstin Wiig's performance, and thought she was a great casting choice for Cheetah, albeit I wish she had more development in the movie. I'm not sure if Barbara got her wish renounced if she didn't wish to have it renounced, because I was hoping to see more of Cheetah in the future...potentially in a Legion of Doom movie. This film is far from perfect but still solid. I give it 7 out of 10.

    This film didn't seem to set anything up for future films but I do like that it served as a standalone film. I don't always like it when another film connects to another film. Often is such the case with Marvel Studios' movies. For instance, The first Thor movie had me more excited seeing Hawkeye and Agent Coulson. Captain America similarly only made me more excited about the Avengers. The Winter Soldier and Civil War however made me care more about the standalone hero films. Looking back on it, now I feel like Batman v Superman was kind of just a filler-episode if you will, to set up the next movie, that was Justice League. Having said that, I enjoyed Justice League more than BvS just because the majority of the film length shows the actual characters exchanging with another, whereas BvS has roughly less than 20 minutes screen time with Batman and Superman together. Unlike MOS or BvS, Patty Jenkins was able to make me care about the characters in her movies. Wonder Woman develops in the first movie. Her character grows. Superman in Man of Steel didn't really seem to grow as a character in my opinion. I wish Patty Jenkins would be directing Superman instead, no offense to Zack Snyder.
     
  7. CowCommando Registered

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    The main issue with WW84 as far as I'm concerned is that the climax of the movie is a little bit underwhelming. WW gave a not particularly persuasive speech and just like that, people withdrew their wishes and all the chaos caused by Maxwell Lord was undone. It’s not a very satisfying pay-off to a 2h30 movie

    Her fight with Cheetah was also a bit disappointing for me. Wonder Woman gets her powers back, wears the golden armour, meanwhile Barbara wishes to be an apex predator like quote “the World has never seen before”, the stage is set for an epic super-powered smackdown but what you get is a quick little fight between the two.

    WW84 is such a fun ride for the most part, I just wish they stuck the landing
     
  8. Aurakles Registered

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    I went in cautiously optimistic, having thoroughly enjoyed the 2017 film, even the oft criticised fight with Ares. It took a look at human nature, setting Wonder Woman’s introduction to humanity in the midst of the First World War. A time when warfare was first married with mass production, when major world powers fought each other with weapons far more destructive than anything ever before. Millions of soldiers being drawn from across the world to fight in atrocious conditions for year after year, millions more civilians suffering from starvation or forced to flee from homes which were now battlefields. The horrors of the First World War were shocking to the people at the time, the 19th century sensibilities of warfare as heroic and noble, as some grand adventure were torn apart. There was nothing adventurous about being stuck in a trench for weeks, with water up to your knees, no sanitation, rats feeding on the corpses that lie all around you, watching your friends being killed, mutilated or driven mad.

    The Western Front was a horror show, a deplorable example of man’s inhumanity to man, and yet this is Diana’s first experience of Man’s World. The genius of this is that it provides such an extreme, such a terrible first example of humanity that it allows Wonder Woman to believable question whether we are worth saving. She struggles with the idea that we are capable of such atrocities, seeking instead to blame them on some outside influence. Her own preconceived notions are torn apart, as the realities of war and humanity are revealed to her.

    Setting the first film during that time was masterstroke and part of what made the movie so special, so I had high hopes for the sequel. The villain is Max Lord, who’s most famous comic story has him take over an international intelligence organisation and use a self aware satellite to spy on people around the world. The setting is 1984, which brings to mind George Orwell’s dystopia of mass surveillance and oppression. Putting these together, my mind raced with the possibilities on offer, an exploration of the question of privacy seemed likely, something which is very topical in the era of digital giants and the NSA.

    Unfortunately, WW84 doesn’t even brush up against the subject. Reflecting back, I can’t discern any real reason why the film had to be set when it was, other than to satisfy the nostalgia of the filmmakers.

    This is, unfortunately, not the only area where WW84 falls behind its predecessor. The script as a whole is poor, the story is generic and predicable, the dialogue is clunky and heavy handed. Gadot, Pine, Wiig and Pascal all do an admirable job trying to elevate a substandard writing, I cannot fault their performances, which at times were quite impressive, but they could only do so much.

    There isn’t a strong structure but more importantly, it lacks a strong message. It throws in a few empty platitudes about truth and greed, but it doesn’t really tie together.

    There were a number of smaller things that bugged me, the largest of which was the lack of interest in the man who’s life was hijacked so that Steve Trevor could return. At no point did anyone in the film question the moral implications of this man’s identity being erased. Even when Diana meets him again at the (frankly weird) Christmas scene, she displays no trace of guilt about the life she nearly stole from him. It was another example of the filmmakers seeming to not think things through.

    Unfortunately I found Wonder Woman 1984 to be thoroughly disappointing.
     
  9. Daywalker89 Blood's thicker than water

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    This was a hit and miss film for me. The cast was superb can't fault anyone. Gal really has cemented her role as Diana/WW i can't envision anyone else in the role. Kristen was a nice surprise. Even though most people didn't enjoy Cheetas characterization. She played a villain quite well and she looked gorgeous in this film. Now im not one to go into great detail. I leave that to some of the enriched SHH members but this film went in a direction that was quite surprising to me. More so the direction of political and virtue signalling and was heavy handed at times especially in the 3rd act. Action was descent overall. Emotional scenes tugged at the heart strings abit but the plot (centred around the dream stone) was generic and used as convenient plot devices throughout the film. Some of Diana's powers were out of the blue and didn't really sit well with me either.

    i would give it a 6.5/10. Definitely worth a watch but doesn't out do the 1st film in many ways .

    P.S the men in this film were creepy losers. Outside of Steve and the guy's life he took over. They all left a bad taste in my mouth.
     
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  10. AVEITWITHJAMON Badass Cloud

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    Well I loved this personally, not quite sure it matches the first movie but in some senses it absolutely does. I think like the first movie this will get better with repeat viewings also.

    The cast were superb, Pascal and Wiig great and believable in their roles, and both having good motivations for doing what they did also. Some great emotion and heart added by Jenkins and I loved that it reminded me of Batman Returns a bit in that it just embraced the cheese and craziness fully. 8.5/10.
     
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  11. Gu3ree Registered

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    New thoughts I've had. Honestly the film doesn't have any major impact. The plot was weak. The whole dream stone thing--how Steve Trevor comes back, and how Barbara becomes Cheetah was disappointing. The film should have focused more on Cheetah and I think she should have been the main villain. Trevor should have been transported from 1917 to 1984--as we were led to believe that maybe he didn't die in the first film, as the explosion was only shown from Diana's point of view.

    The dreamstone was almost as easy as giving Superman the ability to rotate the Earth backwards/turn time backwards. I think the prologue scene was strong but there could have been a few more flashbacks. I want to know how did Diana achieve getting Asterias's golden eagle armor? Did Diana ever go back to Themyscira after all these years? Where did she even get that golden armor. She didn't take it with her to England when she left the island in the first movie.

    Speaking of the the third act in the first film. People complained about how the third act wasn't as good as the first two acts. The villain, the CGI etc. I agree to a certain extent, however I don't think it's as bad as people made it out to be. Even Ares was a way better villain than Steppenwolf (Or maybe I should say-maybe not--Joss Whedon's 'Steppenwolf'?)

    Not saying Ares was a great villain, but the fact that he was hiding in disguise made him interesting, and seemingly clever, though it wasn't revealed until the third act. He became a pretty generic villain by the end of the movie. Even though the third act wasn't as good, I still thought the third act had its moments. Beautiful and strong. When Steve Trevor tells Diana he loves her before dying. Seeing Dr. Poison's face and Wonder Woman lifting the tank. I also liked the cinematography and I did like the lasso of truth scene when Ares shows her his vision. The fight was pretty solid if you ask me. Better than WW84.
     
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  12. TheScarecrow Registered

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    This movie reached peak kooky when Hans Zimmer used his and Junkie XL's Batman theme over the key emotional scene in the film. Why? Who knows. But it ruined the climax for me.
     
    #12 TheScarecrow, Dec 23, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
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  13. AVEITWITHJAMON Badass Cloud

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    The bolded were already explained. Asteria was the last Amazon left in the normal world while the other Amazon's retreated to Themiscyra, her armour was made to help her keep fighting the men who were trying to kill the retreating Amazon's.

    Dianna said she searched for Asteria but only ever found the armour and not Asteria's body, the after credits explained why.

    Also, in the first movie Hippolyta explains to Dianna that if she leaves Themiscyra with Steve she can never return. So that's why she has never been back.
     
  14. Green Goblin Crawling on walls

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    I'm fine with it. It's one of the better parts of the BvS score. I'm just glad it was used in a much better movie.
     
  15. heatvision38 Man of Steel

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    She was flying in the same way the comics used to explain it which is the ability to ride air waves. We still see her using the lasso for momentum so it's more like Thor and his hammer.
     
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  16. heatvision38 Man of Steel

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    I felt the opposite. Made it more emotional for me.
     
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  17. Primal Slayer Let the Siren scream

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    I hated that it was Diana's godly powers that turned the jet invisible. I dont really need her to add to her overall powerset.

    The beginning with the Amazons was great and they should've used that tournament in the 1st one to decide who WW would be. They really need to find a way to tie Diana back to the island for a 3rd one.

    Barbara wasn't bad, i enjoyed what they did with her and since she never renounced her wish i wonder if that sets her up for a return.

    The object being from a god should've set up for the God to return imo.
     
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  18. kguillou Registered

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    Okay, this movie. This is tough one. Overall I feel very disappointed with this film and I'm going to try to explain coherently why here.

    First off, the opening Themyscyra sequence. Amazing, The movie started off on an excellent note for me with this. I want a full movie where we are just with the Amazons. Well directed, riveting and Zimmer's score soars here. This sequence told me I was in for an epic ride of a film.

    Then...the mall sequence. Sweet Christmas this sequence was campy and silly as Hell. But you know what, that was fine, it was to show WW is back and doing her thing and I could ride with that. I liked the character building between Diana and Barbara, they had good chemistry together and I liked how the movie was showing us how lonely and unfulfilled Diana feels in this world. Good stuff. 30 minutes in and I'm into the movie.

    And then...that coddamn stone enters the plot and the movie falls off a cliff for me and never recovers. This thing just comes out of nowhere with no set up or rhyme or reason and can just give people whatever they want. The Monkey's paw, a thing we've seen done a thousand times before. I so badly wanted to just go along with this but the film never sold it to me. I'm just supposed to go with this magic contrivance rock because...the movie said so.

    Chis Pine. Pine looked uncomfortable in this movie. He looked like he was struggling to do all this fish out of water comedic stuff. Some of it was funny some made my eye roll. When he comes back for the first time though, again, it fell flat. Their reunion should have been a powerfully emotional moment. Instead it just felt like "oh hey youre back!" "Yeah! I am!" "How?" "Lol Idk, I just am." "Okay, cool I'll go with it."

    Pedro Pascal, man what a great actor wasted on such a silly campy role. The way they had him going through the whole film running up to people yelling "DONT YOU WISH YOU COULD DO THIS?! SAY YOU WISH YOU COULD DO THIS!" in their faces. I'm sorry guys, I just could not take it seriously, a magic rock where you literally have to say "I WISH this happens!" Why? Again, I dont feel Patty and the writers sold it to me. I'm an EASY lay. James Wan got me to buy into Jason Mamoa riding a sea urchin.

    I dont know, the movie then just got progressively sillier and campier and I didnt even feel adrenalized by any of the action sequences. I just felt down man.

    I will say Gal is getting better and better in the role each time and she is strong here.
     
    #18 kguillou, Dec 25, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2020
  19. heatvision38 Man of Steel

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  20. TheComicbookKid Swing n Miss

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    I really loved this.

    Nothing about it puts it in the top echelon of comicbook movies, but I loved how unapologetically Wonder Woman it was.

    Invisible Jet
    Duke of Deception
    Flying
    Refoming the villain instead beating into submission

    This definitely was a throwback to the Raimi style of comic book movies that aren't made anymore.

    The rock as a plot device I didn't mind cause I bought into the underlying affect it had on the people who used it.
     
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  21. bapi Registered

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    Gadot's beautiful and charming but... It's a mess. The script is absolutely terrible.

    WW - 8.5/10
    WW84 - 6/10
     
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  22. Primal Slayer Let the Siren scream

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  23. flickchick85 Admin of Might

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    I mean, good review and I'm not trying to invalidate your experience, but...it's Wonder Woman: magical items from various gods are kinda what her world's all about. A wishing stone from a Mayan god is pure classic WW spirit, imo.
     
  24. kguillou Registered

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    Sure, i mean, Im a comic book fan, I’m used to supernatural doo-hikeys and magic rings and radioactive whatevers being central elements in many of the stories we love. But for some reason, and I’m thinking i must have missed some exposition and/or set up in the beginning, the way this rock was brought into the story felt very clumsy.
     
  25. flickchick85 Admin of Might

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    Fair enough. :up: I don't need anything more than, "it's an ancient thing that was found," lol.
     

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