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Discussion in 'Batman World' started by batnewbie1967, Jul 23, 2004.

  1. Milkman95 Movie Extra & Actor

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    You don't actually think Bartram is better than Keaton, do you?

    If that's the case, then that's like saying Justin Timberlake will make a better Superman than Christopher Reeve........hilarious.
     
  2. Seth71 Registered

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    What's a nappy haired?
     
  3. co2 Registered

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    That comparison makes no sense whatsoever.
    I do think Bertram is better in the Batsuit, but Keaton is of course a better actor.
    But Bale is going to ber better than both.
     
  4. Seth71 Registered

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    Here's something I don't undertsand. Why people put down every fun film that comes out? Is it jealousy? I mean, look at what WB did with B&R and they are a studio with a real budget. For this very reason no fan film will ever be worse than B&R because it was a "real" comercial wide release film. Now fans do movies out of love with no money and then people just put them down? What's that? As a fan, the more movies and different takes on my favorite characters, the better. Specially that the chances of big ol' WB give us a classic take on supes and bats are very thin. Somebody stands up and go make it and people put it down? For me it's just one more take on the characters I love. A different take. What's the point of doing it rubber armor if that's all WB can do? What's the point of doing it the same way? I have nothing against contructive criticism, but to just put it down without even point something positive about it (like production value, effort, image quality and etc) makes it so clear where this criticism is comeing from. Envy.
    I thought the film has many good points to it, as it has bad ones. But in the end of the day, what counts for me is that there are people taking money from they own pockets to make the films they want to see about they beloved characters, even knowing they won't make this money back. They make them and offer them for FREE to others fans which can only put it down, even though they paid nothing to watch it. Go pay for a B&R DVD or to wtahc Catwoman or The Punisher. At least you will have a decent excuse to complain and puit it down, since you PAID for it.
     
  5. revolver86 Registered

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    I like the guys that play Superman and Batman. But, Sandy needs to learn how to get better actors to play the villains. Lex and Two-Face were god aweful and didn't look anything like there comic counterparts. I also didn't like the chick that played Lois. They shouldn't have had scenes with Bats in the daytime as it ruins the effect. The things I liked were the bat-mobile, the scene in the cave about breaking into the Whitehouse. And my absolute favorite....."Where's Bruce?" and then Batman jumping up on the piano. That had to be one of the coolest shots ever!
     
  6. Joined:
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    Ok that comparison is just plain sad...ok how about this, what are the physical characteristics of Batman/Bruce Wayne that an actor could portray well on screen?...

    Batman

    Dark
    Mysterious
    Intimidating
    Buff
    Tall

    Bruce Wayne

    Handsome
    Buff
    Outgoing
    Charming
    Tall

    Now you tell me who fits those characteristics more. Keaton is NOT a good looking guy, he's NOT intimidating, and he's sure as hell not buff. In the 20 secs of screen time that Bruce Wayne got in "World's Finest" he managed to blow away Keaton's Bruce Wayne. Clark Bartram may not be 6'2 but then again niether is Keaton....now you tell me how many of those characteristics Bartram and Keaton have.

    I never said Keaton was a horrible actor, but Batman he is NOT. I haven't even seen Batman Begins, and I can already tell you that Bale blows away Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney just by pictures alone.

    I love how people constantly put down Clark or Mike O'Hearn simply because they're in good shape. I've seen a lot of people call them "muscle heads" which then leads to them not being able to act...need I remind anyone a former Mr. Universe managed to become one of the world's most famous actors, and the current governor of Ca? Gee I wonder how many people told him he'd never make it simply because he was a bodybuilder.

    When they were casting the Incredible Hulk show in the 70's...did they turn to a 5'6 aging actor? NO, they turned to a BODYBUILDER. You guys need to cool it with the Clark bashing....keep in mind this is a INDY FILM, there is no budget to get a big name.
     
  7. MJZ Registered

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    Bartram as Bruce Wayne? That was a riot!
     
  8. Joined:
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    Keaton as Bruce Wayne....that's just sad.
     
  9. ultimatefan The Batman must come back

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    All right, all right, chill out everybody. For what it was intended to be, it was fun. It´s a trailer, it doesn´t tell the story, but it gets you interested. The dialogue wasn´t great, but it didn´t feel out of place either. It didn´t have any full scenes, so it´s hard to judge anyway. But the characters look the part and they did some impressive stunts for the low budget they had. The actors look the part and I didn´t find them terrible, at least for the little they had to do. It´s a good piece of fan fun, nothing else.
     
  10. Milkman95 Movie Extra & Actor

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    Exactly. Bartram was a complete joke as Bruce Wayne. Keaton was way better. Keaton pulled off Wayne just fine. Bartram didn't because he couldn't act his way out of a litter box. I'm not bashing him, that's just a fact. I respect his attitude and physique, because I am also involved in physical fitness and I know what it takes to have a body like his. I'll take a good actor that can deliver the correct personality anyday over some guy that just looks like him and can't act......
     
  11. MJZ Registered

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    It worked in the context Burton was trying to create. It wasn't supposed to be a carbon copy of the character from the comics.

    Granted, I prefer the characterization from the comics and animated series, but Bartram's delivery is just horrendous.
     
  12. Milkman95 Movie Extra & Actor

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    ^Agree once again. Bale is the best of both worlds - he's a great actor who is also in shape, so I agree there that Bale will blow everyone else out of the water. I just don't know how you can compare Bartram to Keaton, it's really quite ridiculous......Keaton is an accomplished actor who is seen to this day as the best Batman so far, and Bartram has starred in two low budget fanfilms where he couldn't even deliver the 5 lines he had in both films......
     
  13. I liked this film. I think for a short fan film it is very good. I wish it were longer. It felt incomplete and I wasn't quite sure what it was about as a whole. Its very impressive what can be done on such a small budget. That said, I liked Mike O'Hearn as Supes. I prefer to see someone with a bodybuilder's physique as Superman. That's what he should look like. As for the acting, he was better than I thought he would be. He definitely looked the part and he wasn't awful. He did a decent job.
     
  14. ultimatefan The Batman must come back

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    Yeah, we have to take in consideration that this is fan stuff, with people working for free and a tiny budget. Can´t look at it with the same view as a 100 million dollar movie.
     
  15. Seth71 Registered

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    What Ultimatefan said.
     
  16. Seth71 Registered

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    By the way, how can people judge Baltran's Wayne? He barely spoke as Wayne.
     
  17. JBElliott Registered

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    You've definitely got the right to say what you please, short of shouting fire in a theater and libel.

    But one point to keep in mind when talking about Collora's work is the scale of his budget.

    For instance, you can't really compare Newton's theory of gravity and Einstein's theory of general relativity without taking into account that Newton didn't have the tools to work with that Einstein did. Newton didn't even have calculus, he had to invent it. Einstein had calculus and a lot more.

    Obviously Collora's work won't, for the most part, look as good as super hero movies put out by the major studios. But if you take into account the differing budgets, then Collora's work compares well with any super hero movie put out by the major studios and is better than many, e.g. Catwoman, Dolph's Punisher and so on.
     
  18. Joined:
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    See here's what I don't get about some of you. You praise Burton and Keaton for delivering the best Batman, yet the whole film was a drastic difference from the source material.

    In Burton's films Bruce Wayne was an aging guy with a poor physique and a lot of money. Whereas the REAL Bruce Wayne, is a younger, handsome guy with a physically perfected body...how is that even close??

    In Burton's films Batman had no problem killing people...the REAL Batman DOES NOT kill...period.

    You also had The Joker who seemingly met up with a young Bruce Wayne and shot his family...later they meet up...Batman turns him into The Joker and there you go. How the hell is that even close? Joe Chill killed Batman's parents, it's almost like they were searching for a reason for Batman to hate The Joker...I guess the fact that he was a homicidal maniac just wasn't enough.

    The only reason people buy into Burton's films is because he managed to come up with some BS excuse that he was making a "departure" from the comics. I'm sorry but when I pay money to see a film called BATMAN, I want it to at least keep to source material....nevermind the ridiculous suit.

    Keaton was the best Batman in the movies, but he still was a horrible choice. I will agree that Bale is best of both worlds...he's a tremendous actor, and he can pull off the handsome playboy role.
     
  19. Joined:
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    I think everyone would agree that Dead End, and World's Finest blow "Catwoman" away....I think the old school Fantastic Four movie manages to do that too.
     
  20. JBElliott Registered

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    From your critique it sounds like you were expecting to be something it's not, it's not a major studio project.

    I agree that a lot of the dialogue was cliched, but then that's sort of what comic books are. A lot of the dialog was taken out of various comics. The acting wasn't that great, but it's about as good as say, Dolph Lundgren or Sylvester Stallone in most of their films. Remeber also that Dolph and Sly probably get a few hundred takes to get the lines even as good as they do, I doubt Collora had that much time for his "actors."

    Currect comics have Clark and Superman being pretty much the same build. Clark was a high school football star in the current continuity.

    So what? We see that all the time in major motion pictures. We see Berry's cleavage all the time in Catwoman for the same reason.

    Yeah, Collora should have had Batman work the shadows better for the day time shots. That means different locations where there are shadows in which to hide. For instance, Batman could have knocked out some of the lighting in the interior shots.

    Batman and Superman vs. Luthor. Luthor hires Two Face to off Superman using a kryptonite bullet.

    You don't read too many Superman comics do you?

    I'm pretty sure that was Clark talking to Lex.

    I'm sure it's about as much as I laugh at Bush and Cheney these days. Those guys make a great comedy team!
     
  21. Joined:
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    You nailed it COMPLETELY
     
  22. Nivek Registered

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    Im amazed how much Fanboy hate Collera stirred up from obvious Burton Batfans. sheesh guys, wheres the guys who put the comic depiction first? If you judge it on that, these Collera films and Grayson have alot more in common with the comic, hands down. Personally, I get more of a kick out of it more than the studio films that try to overdose on Reality on Superhero flicks. Have some fun with it.
     
  23. batnewbie1967 Registered

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    Is it just me, or doesn't it occur to you,too that O' Hearn looks similar to Nic Cage?
     
  24. Milkman95 Movie Extra & Actor

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    Whatever JB, I've read enough Superman comics to know enough, and even though Collora was trying to pull off what a comics page does, it doesn't work. You didn't nail ANYTHING completely. All you did was defend someone that has more resources and money than the other fan filmakers and came up with something ultimately disappointing....

    I'll agree some of it I was harsh on, just because it was right after the first time I watched it, and I expected a lot more. After watching it a few more times, I realise I was a bit tough, but it all comes down to the actors - and of course that's why it didn't work - at least for me anyway. For example, if you watched the Denzel Washington movie "Man on Fire" with someone who couldn't act instead of Denzel in the role, that movie would have been the same old story told over and over again...but a good actor like Denzel MADE it good. Even though this is a fan film, if you're going to try to do a visual representation, which Collora has now tried twice, SHUT THE ACTOR'S UP and have it be just a visual piece, and not have O'Hearn or Bartram say a word, and it would have been better.....stick to visuals if you're trying to rip the EXACT look right off the page........

    And yes, I get comedy everyday from Kerry's campaign.......
     
  25. P. Cushing Registered

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    You support the Texan Terrorist? That's just wrong!
     

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