World's Finest? Justice League? Reboot? No reboot? Solo Movies before or after?

[Willi Berg]

But Willi Berg, if you ever have any other questions about vague plot, im always happy to disclose. It just makes my job easier. Love getting second opinions.

OK- I'm wondering about how Cheetah vs. WW is handled. It's done well? Not in that cheesy Halle Berry vs. Sharon Stone 'Catwoman' way? Same with the Lord/Cheetah romance? The Cheetah comes across as a great, believable villain?

Is government involved?

Is Steve Trevor interesting? Or bland love interest (like in the 2011 pilot)?

You said it was more about power play. Does WW get many kickass action scenes?

Are feminist themes throughout entire story? Subtle? Overt?

Does WW have great powers? Like Kryptonians? Like flying? I am worried that she will just be superpowered and lose all her training/fighting skills she learned as an Amazon warrior.

 

[jd23]

OK- I'm wondering about how Cheetah vs. WW is handled. It's done well? Not in that cheesy Halle Berry vs. Sharon Stone 'Catwoman' way? Same with the Lord/Cheetah romance? The Cheetah comes across as a great, believable villain?

Is Steve Trevor interesting? Or bland love interest (like in the 2011 pilot)?

You said it was more about power play. Does WW get many kickass action scenes?

Are feminist themes throughout entire story? Subtle? Overt?

Does WW have great powers? Like Kryptonians? Like flying? I am worried that she will just be superpowered and lose all her training/fighting skills she learned as an Amazon warrior.

I love this, so point by point:

So Cheetah in this is a researcher who works for Lord as well as has an affair with him. Lord is essentially terrified of Metahuman's and is trying to find a "cure" for it. SHe goes to Themiscyra to discern what it is that makes Amazonians so strong and takes a soil sample. She gets contaminated and becomes Cheetah. When she returns to lord. He shuns her and has her caged. She has become the thing he hates essentially.

Cheetah is told by Lord that the only way he'll ever speak to her again is if she kills Wonder Woman(in reality, he wants a metahuman to be seen killing another, proving his point that they are violent).

WW really takes her time with violence, which I loved, because it made it more of a story and less of a smashy action sequence. She tries to stop Cheetah from hurting her without fighting back. Ultimately, Cheetah is killed by one of Lord's bands of followers and lynched BECAUSE she is metahuman. This turns Lord about-face as far as metahuman's go, but now he and WW have to team up to defeat the sort of monstrous popular opinion he created.

Trevor is very much a confection, but I think THAT'S where the feminist themes come in. He's weak and even though he is dating Etta, he tries to move on WW, which makes him look like an ass. Basically he just makes men look weak, while women, or WW are the ones who remain morally correct.

There aren't a ton of action scenes, but they are fun, and Wonderwoman is less of a superhuman and more of just a supercharged martial arts warrior, but they wrote in this weird thing where she wears a mask and her eyes turn blue. That was funky.

The feminist themes are NOT subtle at all, but I think it works because they ultimately use metahumanism as a metaphor for feminism, so its fun. Reminded me a lot of The Dark Knight.

What IS fun is the way they do the Maxwell lord relationship, Cheetah is basically a misled, love-sick puppy, and Lord is too smart for his own good. Kind of like the villain in Chinatown. He never directly commits violence until the end.

All in all though it was a VERY different road to take.

 

[Willi Berg]

I love this, so point by point:

So Cheetah in this is a researcher who works for Lord as well as has an affair with him. Lord is essentially terrified of Metahuman's and is trying to find a "cure" for it. SHe goes to Themiscyra to discern what it is that makes Amazonians so strong and takes a soil sample. She gets contaminated and becomes Cheetah. When she returns to lord. He shuns her and has her caged. She has become the thing he hates essentially.

That's interesting. Lord sounds interesting here.

Cheetah is told by Lord that the only way he'll ever speak to her again is if she kills Wonder Woman(in reality, he wants a metahuman to be seen killing another, proving his point that they are violent).

A different way to pit Cheetah against WW than we normally see but, again, interesting.

WW really takes her time with violence, which I loved, because it made it more of a story and less of a smashy action sequence. She tries to stop Cheetah from hurting her without fighting back. Ultimately, Cheetah is killed by one of Lord's bands of followers and lynched BECAUSE she is metahuman. This turns Lord about-face as far as metahuman's go, but now he and WW have to team up to defeat the sort of monstrous popular opinion he created.

I am still uncertain about Lord's about-face. He rejects Cheetah but ultimately realises he loves her? Is that it? Is it an abrupt about-face? And he is full of self-hatred because he too is metahuman?

Trevor is very much a confection, but I think THAT'S where the feminist themes come in. He's weak and even though he is dating Etta, he tries to move on WW, which makes him look like an ass. Basically he just makes men look weak, while women, or WW are the ones who remain morally correct.

Unexpected way to go with Trevor. Quite a change, but at least unpredictable and seems to give story a nice twist.

There aren't a ton of action scenes, but they are fun, and Wonderwoman is less of a superhuman and more of just a supercharged martial arts warrior, but they wrote in this weird thing where she wears a mask and her eyes turn blue. That was funky.

That's kind of really odd!

The feminist themes are NOT subtle at all, but I think it works because they ultimately use metahumanism as a metaphor for feminism, so its fun. Reminded me a lot of The Dark Knight.

What IS fun is the way they do the Maxwell lord relationship, Cheetah is basically a misled, love-sick puppy, and Lord is too smart for his own good. Kind of like the villain in Chinatown. He never directly commits violence until the end.

All in all though it was a VERY different road to take.

Definitely a different, unique take. I am wondering though if it is "commercial" enough for WB? Whether they want to go for that more straight action kind of movie. Since they are worried about a WW movie, would they take this more risky approach, when they saw how well an action and effects-heavy movie like MOS did.

Also seems that it focuses more on these three main characters, rather than a world event.

Thanks again for all these details!

 

[jd23]

That's interesting. Lord sounds interesting here.



A different way to pit Cheetah against WW than we normally see but, again, interesting.



I am still uncertain about Lord's about-face. He rejects Cheetah but ultimately realises he loves her? Is that it? Is it an abrupt about-face? And he is full of self-hatred because he too is metahuman?



Unexpected way to go with Trevor. Quite a change, but at least unpredictable and seems to give story a nice twist.



That's kind of really odd!



Definitely a different, unique take. I am wondering though if it is "commercial" enough for WB? Whether they want to go for that more straight action kind of movie. Since they are worried about a WW movie, would they take this more risky approach, when they saw how well an action and effects-heavy movie like MOS did.

Also seems that it focuses more on these three main characters, rather than a world event.

Thanks again for all these details!

No problem. That's precisely what I was thinking, perhaps its too dark. But then again, if Justice League is meant to be an "Anti" Avengers, perhaps its better. Also I DO happen to know that this particular draft was written catering to Nicolas Winding Refn. Whom I personally think would be a pretty great addition to DC's directors so far.

 

[Willi Berg]

No problem. That's precisely what I was thinking, perhaps its too dark. But then again, if Justice League is meant to be an "Anti" Avengers, perhaps its better. Also I DO happen to know that this particular draft was written catering to Nicolas Winding Refn. Whom I personally think would be a pretty great addition to DC's directors so far.

Refn would be interesting, he was talked about a lot here when he said he wanted to make a WW movie (this was before the success of 'Drive'). I thought 'Valhalla Rising' indicated a potentially very dark take on WW. Though if it were like that movie, it would be R-rated!

 

[jd23]

Refn would be interesting, he was talked about a lot here when he said he wanted to make a WW movie (this was before the success of 'Drive'). I thought 'Valhalla Rising' indicated a potentially very dark take on WW. Though if it were like that movie, it would be R-rated!

Agreed! Anyway, this script is one I would be VERY happy to watch.

Best part of the screenplay was how detailed the triangle between Candy, Trevor and WW was.

 

[shauner111]

No problem. That's precisely what I was thinking, perhaps its too dark. But then again, if Justice League is meant to be an "Anti" Avengers, perhaps its better. Also I DO happen to know that this particular draft was written catering to Nicolas Winding Refn. Whom I personally think would be a pretty great addition to DC's directors so far.

ARE YOU SERIOUS? That's amazing. I don't know if he would do it though, considering Only God Forgives is more of an artsy violent film that's getting a lot of hate from the Cannes film festival. Plus he had his sights on Christina Hendricks for the role, who is close to 40 now and more of a Poison Ivy than a Wonder Woman type.

I still hope they can get him on board with this new take and a different actress in mind who is younger.

Thanks for telling us about the script. It's interesting but I LOVE the greek mythology aspect of WW, so im partly disappointed and intrigued at the same time.

Hopefully the best script wins though, in the long run, even if it's not this one. But im dying to see a director like Refn take Wonder Woman into a bolder place.

 

[jd23]

ARE YOU SERIOUS? That's amazing. I don't know if he would do it though, considering Only God Forgives is more of an artsy violent film that's getting a lot of hate from the Cannes film festival. Plus he had his sights on Christina Hendricks for the role, who is close to 40 now and more of a Poison Ivy than a Wonder Woman type.

I still hope they can get him on board with this new take and a different actress in mind who is younger.

Thanks for telling us about the script. It's interesting but I LOVE the greek mythology aspect of WW, so im partly disappointed and intrigued at the same time.

Hopefully the best script wins though, in the long run, even if it's not this one. But im dying to see a director like Refn take Wonder Woman into a bolder place.

I agree! And it doesn't necessarily mean that it needs to be violent, just bolder and more "human". Let me know if you have any other questions about this one? Begging with my superiors to give it traction.

 

[shauner111]

Skip over this if you've answered it, but how old do you think Diana is in this story? Is it something that can be easily changed or is it very specific. Ill read over your responses to make sure, but I figured ill throw that in here fast before I come up with more questions.

Because im trying to figure out who WB can cast, or at least the age range of an actress theyre going for. It's also interesting to me in relation to Clark Kent in this universe, who is 33 at the time of Man Of Steel.

Also are you only aware of the WW scripts that come in (and the amount of them that do) or do you know any information or even read anything from the Batman reboot department. Im curious to know what kind of stories theyre getting about how to reinvent Batman on film.

 

[jd23]

Skip over this if you've answered it, but how old do you think Diana is in this story? Is it something that can be easily changed or is it very specific. Ill read over your responses to make sure, but I figured ill throw that in here fast before I come up with more questions.

Because im trying to figure out who WB can cast, or at least the age range of an actress theyre going for. It's also interesting to me in relation to Clark Kent in this universe, who is 33 at the time of Man Of Steel.

Also are you only aware of the WW scripts that come in (and the amount of them that do) or do you know any information or even read anything from the Batman reboot department. Im curious to know what kind of stories theyre getting about how to reinvent Batman on film.

Pretty young considering she is still under the influence of her mother and "destined" to be an Amazonian queen.

She'll be young and naive, lots of play on how unexpected the violence of the real world is to Wonder Woman.

I just read scripts that come in and since I love the WW comics, I got excited. I've never gotten any other superhero ones before. I DO know they are considering either cutting batman out or just including him casually in goyer's justice leage.

 

[shauner111]

Thanks, but as for your last part you wrote...WOW. That's really stupid of WB.

It would explain why theyre apparently looking into Batman Beyond as a live-action adaptation.

 

[jd23]

Thanks, but as for your last part you wrote...WOW. That's really stupid of WB.

It would explain why theyre apparently looking into Batman Beyond as a live-action adaptation.

Right? It just seems irresponsible, but oh well. Part of the problem is that Nolan made the Batman films so iconic that they're hard to match or replicate.

To be frank, I wouldn't expect too much out of a Justice League movie. The wonderwoman one could be great though. Lots of subplots and a really beautifully written conflict between WW and Lord.

 

[Hamill-Joker]

For the Justice League I've always liked the idea of a trilogy with Darkseid as the villain.

First movie has Intergang causing havoc and bringing the heroes together to stop them. Second movie is Darkseid's invasion of Earth. Third movie is the final showdown on Apokolips.

I just feel like if you condense Darkseid into one movie, you are doing an injustice to the characters and the mythology of the Fourth World.

 

[jd23]

For the Justice League I've always liked the idea of a trilogy with Darkseid as the villain.

First movie has Intergang causing havoc and bringing the heroes together to stop them. Second movie is Darkseid's invasion of Earth. Third movie is the final showdown on Apokolips.

I just feel like if you condense Darkseid into one movie, you are doing an injustice to the characters and the mythology of the Fourth World.

People are going to get so tired of extra-terrestrial villains though.

 

[shauner111]

Right? It just seems irresponsible, but oh well. Part of the problem is that Nolan made the Batman films so iconic that they're hard to match or replicate.

To be frank, I wouldn't expect too much out of a Justice League movie. The wonderwoman one could be great though. Lots of subplots and a really beautifully written conflict between WW and Lord.

Awesome. Im not expecting much out of a JL film despite insane action sequences. But as for something to really chew on? I look to the solo films, like Wonder Woman.

Do you think World's Finest could end up being a priority before Justice League? I say that's the team up that they should be contemplating.

Anyways, I just want something character based for Diana and with great fighting on her end. I always envisioned an epic, exotic origin story for WW.

 

[dmc]

Pretty young considering she is still under the influence of her mother and "destined" to be an Amazonian queen.

She'll be young and naive, lots of play on how unexpected the violence of the real world is to Wonder Woman.

I just read scripts that come in and since I love the WW comics, I got excited. I've never gotten any other superhero ones before. I DO know they are considering either cutting batman out or just including him casually in goyer's justice leage.

If batman is omitted from the JL or included casually as you say, I will lose my ****

In addition, I wonder if Goyer can pull off a JL movie. Do you guys think he can write the witty banter between Bruce and Clark which is essential to their dynamic? Well I suppose he pulled off the Bruce/Alfred relationship pretty well or was someone else involved in the script for the TDK trilogy?

 

[Shikamaru]

Whoa whoa whoa. What is this I hear about Wonder Woman being a Kryptonian and them cutting Batman out or "including him casually"?

 

[296wood.]

I think scenario 7 is the best. But the Batman and GL movies are not needed. Batman could be introduced in WF and GL john stewart could be introduced in JL. If you want an origin story, see the last GL film. He is just a member of a space corps. He could even mention that he is not the first human GL, or thar the first one, Hal Jordan, is dead. After JL, you could make a GL movie about rebirth and the Siniestro Corps with a Hal/John team-up (obviously with another actor so they dont have to say that the first GL movie happened in the same universe).

 

[Jordacar]

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but the reason Avengers was even possible was that Marvel was able to not only focus on producing one specific genre of movies, but also operate outside of the normal studio system that's used to cranking out one superhero movie at a time and waiting for the results. And now WB wants to do the same thing, but they're still stuck on the old studio machine that in a decade cranked out 3 amazing Batman movies and one totally useless Superman movie in between.

Anyway, awhile ago a I made this video:
Giving my thoughts on a game plan for the DC movies that actually has a chance of, y'know, working. Basically, give us Wonder Woman, Flash/GL, and Batman/Superman in quick succession, then we're ready for Justice League.

Since then, I got to thinking about all the scripts WB keeps throwing around for these projects and seemingly getting nowhere. Given what happened with Green Lantern vs what happened with Avengers, I get the sense that these movies work better with fewer writers and a more centralized creative vision, rather than a bunch of different writers watering down the material until it's all derivative and "safe".

With that, here are the screenwriters that I would assign to each of those movies:

Jane Espenson for Wonder Woman. Not only does she come from the Joss Whedon circle of geniuses, but I'd argue that she's even more qualified for this assignment than Joss ever was. Take a quick look at that filmography; Buffy, Once Upon a Time, Warehouse 13, Battlestar Galactica, Torchwood, even an ep of Game of Thrones ("The Golden Crown"). WW would be the perfect culmination of those works. She writes strong women with agency, she understands magic, and she knows how to keep everything fun without sacrificing the emotional core of the story.

For The Brave and the Bold (Flash/GL team-up), Geoff Johns. I wouldn't normally suggest a comic writer for a movie, even one as prolific as Johns, but if Johns only ever writes one feature-film screenplay, this is the one he'd be perfect for. He had historic runs on both GL and Flash; he knows those guys back-to-front. Elevating the material above the standard-issue drivel we got in the GL movie would be a synch for him. He's written a number of TV episodes going all the way back to "Blade: The Series", and more recently he penned episodes of "Smallville" and "Arrow". Good ones too. Plus there's that whole interning with Richard Donner way back when he was just starting out.

As for World's Finest (Superman/Batman), David Goyer can handle it. While I really wish things could've been spread out more, I really thought Man of Steel was still well put-together for having to smash together at least two movies worth of mythology into one. Either way, since it's a direct sequel to MoS, and Goyer's written for both characters on film now, I'm actually confident that he's got this and I'm interested to see what he does with it next. I'm more concerned with WB overthinking the story and trying to rope in the Nolan films somehow, when this would be a good time to keep things simple and look toward the future.

It might also be good to throw in another writer who works on all three plus JL, helping to tie things together and make sure everything is taking place in the same world.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

IF the movie-verse and tv-verse are one and the same, this is how I want to see each character debuting.

Big screen for the big-three:

2013 - Superman in 'Man of Steel'
2015 - Batman in 'World's Finest'
2017 - Wonder Woman in 'Justice League'

and at the same time on TV

2014 - The Flash in 'Arrow' season 2, and later gets his own show.
2016 - Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) in 'The Flash' season 2 with an entire Barry&Hal arc, and later has an arc with Oliver in 'Arrow' season 4.
John 'Stewart' Diggle gets a ring in the season 4 finale and joins the 2017 JL movie.

 

[Donut]

What if there will be no more solo movies & from here on out any sequels will be various team ups

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

What if there will be no more solo movies & from here on out any sequels will be various team ups

I could see them doing something like that:

2013 Man of Steel
2015 World's Finest
2017 Justice League
2019 Justice League: Rise of Atlantis
2021 Justice League: The New Gods
2023 Justice League:...

etc, etc

 

[Mr.M]

We are not getting a JLA movie every 2 years without spinoffs in between. I doubt Cavil and Affleck are signed for 6 movie deals and the works. I think they will go the spinoff route. Flash and GL definitely seem like post JLA spinoffs to me. Otherwise, Flash can go on television. I think it will be:

2016: The Flash (TV series)
2017: JLA (possibly Affleck's last as Batman)
2018: MoS 3
2019: WW spinoff
2020: JLA 2 (Last Affleck Batman appearance for sure)
2021: GL reboot
2022: The Batman (prequel)
2023: JLA 3

I think the only DC characters that can carry a summer tentpole are Supes/Bat/GL. I think the rest need to be featured to ensemble movies, non-summer releases, or relegated to TV.

 

[TheJediBrah]

GL and Flash are just as much of a cultural icon as Hulk is. Everyone knows who they are much like how they know who Hulk is.

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard anyone say ever.

Just logged in to say that.

Good day.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

i don't find it ridiculous at all, but then again i don't live in a world where the hulk is a cultural icon. batman? yes. superman? yes. wonder woman? yes. spider-man? yes. hulk? nope. he's a lot closer to gl and flash then he is to those actual icons.