The Dark Knight Rises Worst, most annoying suggestions youve constantly heard

[Marginal Man]

Ok, now I want to make a suggestion that could actually be interesting and original.

Feel free to bash it because i thought of it 3 minutes ago and it doesn't fall in line with the comic book continuity (but have any of the movies?).

The movie should pick up after Batman's been gone a little awhile but not enough for people to think he's a legend like in the dark knight returns.

He will be on news reports in stories like "Despite the eyewitnesses accounts given by Commissioner James Gordon of the GCPD, is it possible that with the batman still missing, former DA Harvey Dent really was indeed the masked vigilante himself? NEWS at 11"

All of the cops that were paid off/bribed by the Joker have been killed by Two Face (Rodriguez is questionable but I have a feeling to keep the pg 13 rating they couldn't have too many on screen deaths...maybe wishful thinking?) so the news report isn't too out of line or a plot hole. You could even bring up in the movie something like "Can you really trust a man who faked his own death while working with someone outside the law to tell the public anything truthful regarding Batman, D.A. Dent, or even the Joker?!!?"

Then here comes the fun part. The Riddler. Edward Nigma could be anyone as long as the actor is fantastic, and his backstory could be anything, I don't care, as long as they make his story a intriguing without any sort of overdone Jim Carey ****.

The Riddler in my mind has always been a character that is above the, erm, unrealistic or lame (freeze, manbat, ivy;Zsaz, Zeus, Penguin, Scarface) and is part of Batman's Rogue Gallery but is almost seen by the other criminals as being pretty B grade and not noteworthy.

If you played that up, Riddler could be a guy who reeeeally wants attention and wants to stir something up in a big way as revenge.

Let's say he raises a lot of questions as to who the identity of The Joker is instead of Batman. If you make it so somehow the Joker escaped the SWAT team in the movie somehow and his history shows he has no finger prints or records... Nigma could be a TV personality/TV show host (hence his ridiculous birth name/play on words) that could pose this question, "If the Joker's disappearance coincides with the death of Harvey, who's to say Gotham's White Knight hadn't ensured his election with the help of a little make up? I mean, where exactly WAS harvey the night at Wayne manor? Why else the need to cover up your face and prints unless you were the most respected man in Gotham?" This leads to the city's lack of morale and increase in theatrical crime and corruption.

Meanwhile, Wayne is doing a little research and detective work on his own on Edward Nigma and the Joker and is turning up with dead ends and lame immitation villains..

(woah what if freeze, zsuez, hatter, scarface, etc are treated as a joke in Nolan's world...like 5th rate villains who would be treated like if someone in the REAL world thought they needed to actually be preserved at low temp to survive, was a greek god, a character from a childrens story, or had a talking dummy?!)

... serious head cases that latch on to an idea like the joker to cause mayhem for the sake of anarchy and uncalculated purpose. Boredom and insanity.

Anyway this all brings batman back into the picture which pleases Riddler as he thinks this furthers Gotham's decent into corruption as the supposed villain of TDK was the city's last hope, Batman who is a wanted criminal for killing the DA is back, and the world's LOONEY-ist are taking over the streets.

The end could be a confrontation with the Riddler in which Batman has to go through a serious of puzzles and riddles to survive a fun house type place (a really corny move taken straight out of batman TAS, which is why it could TOTALLY work) and when he completes it to the end he finds a prerecording and a dead Riddler in a chair with a note that says "immitation is the most sincere form of flattery, but the least respected form of humor. luv ya - J"

I don't know the ending, but I think these are a blue print for an interesting story, movie or no movie. I can't write a script to save a life but I can work with the tools at hand to come up with something of the Nolan world and original enough to satisfy fans tastefully.

 

[General_Obol]

I think that's a terrible idea...I hope you are joking. That would be such a downer to the audience to see the most beloved comic book villain thrown under a bus. Think about that. All that epic talk about the Joker and Bats future. All the history of the character and they don't go down in a battle against eachother? I would rather the next movie mention him and leave the rest to the imagination of the viewer as being the future of the Joker/Bats showdown.

No way, man, no way.

That suggestion should be in this thread.

And you think relegating him to a cameo would be a good idea? You're turning one of the most iconic villains in cinema history won of the most beloved comic book villains into a minor character.

That suggestion should be in this thread.

Besides, what better way to show the full extent of the effect he has on Gotham than to show that he's still running the show even after he's died?

 

[Symbiotic]

Angelina Jolie as Catwoman. Just... no. I just think it'd come across as her playing herself.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Yeah that's pretty much takes the cake.

Seconded. Worst, most annoying suggestion ever!

 

[Snoo]

- Joker recast
- Anything revolving Harley Quinn
- Hush

I see the first two as pointless because I'm pleased with how TDK ended and don't need a re-match in B3, besides I don't think the TDK Joker would ever want or need a "sidekick" of any kind. In my eyes Harley belongs in the cartoons - hell, I don't think the comicverse is any better for having her included. She's in top form as a cartoon character but elsewhere I see little point in her.

And maybe it's just me but I prefer the idea of Nolanverse Joker being repulsive and off-putting to any woman, deranged or no, and that he'd never find anyone that would accept him for who he is, romantically, physically, spiritually, you name it. He's a monster. Tragically, the only "meaningful relationship" he'll ever have is with a man dressed up as a bat, his true other half, and they'll forever hate each other. IMO he shouldn't be a lovable person, not even to a single misguided soul. He's alone, like Batman said. Always. Batman's the only person that really "sees" Joker while everyone else is running in the other direction.

I also think Nolanverse Joker would instantly kill off any copy-cat or anyone daring to borrow his face. There are so many fanart pics, manips, photos, etc, of "Nolanverse Harley" painting herself a la TDK Joker or even sporting his signature scars, just to be "closer" to him. I always thought that would infuriate the Joker like very few other things. He wouldn't allow it. Why have another person parading around with his face, a face everyone in Gotham fears and recognizes by now? He alone should have the honour and the privilege of scaring the bejesus out of people with his deformity.

If it were up to me and Harley was part of the cast for some reason, she'd have no paint on her face at all besides the usual lipstick and eyeliner. It would just be too similar to the Nolanverse Joker who's painting his face instead of being ghostly white (not that I'm complaining about that). If she covered her face at all (like during a heist) I'd give her an amazingly intricate and delicate mask. The famous Venetian masks come to mind. That would be closer to Joker's goons wearing clown masks in TDK, so already in line with his thinking. Early on we were told the Joker painted those himself. And a Venetian mask would be suitably "creepy" in a way while the woman underneath is lovely in appearance.

But yeah, no Harley for me. I'm just brainstorming. Her appearance is just the tip of the iceberg.

As for Hush, he simply isn't on my top list, he's too much of an annoying *bleep* with a stick up his ass for me to care about him in the slightest. He is "get out of the movie!" kind of irritating to me. I'd pick many others over him if I had to choose. Sorry, Hush.

I'd love to see a new major villain, maybe one we've seen before in other films (Riddler, Bane, etc.), plus another one that's completely new to the screen, and another that's an original creation by Nolan (besides mobsters, goons and such). An interesting side villain, maybe. It would make for a nice mix.

 

[The Batman]

honestly, pretty much 99 % of the suggestions suck and miss the point...

 

[bgates87]

Angelina Jolie as Catwoman. Just... no. I just think it'd come across as her playing herself.

I completely agree. I really do like her as an actress but I don't think she's right for the role (somewhere Two-Face is reading this and virtually strangling me). They're rebooting the Tomb Raider series and recasting Lara though so hopefully people will get off of her bandwagon a little bit, I think that's the role that really got most people to get behind her as Catwoman anyways.

 

[General_Obol]

Well here's just a few thoughts to throw out there:

1) Should a new love interest be cast in the movie? Or should Batman 3 deal with Bruce trying to cope with the loss of Rachel? Or perhaps include a character that could me more of a seductress. If so, who do you think should "replace" Rachel in Bruce's heart?

2) There are certain characters that either won't work or people just don't seem to want in the next film. Hush, Man-Bat, and Mr. Freeze for example. But could their "perfectly" normal alter-egos be included in the film? a la Curt Connors in Spider-Man 2 and 3 without any reference to the Lizard

3) Both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight at 4 different villains that fit different archetypes: the Mafioso (Falcone, Maroni), the Vigilante (Ra's, Two-Face), the Lunatic (Scarecrow, Joker), and finally the Cameo (Zsasz, Scarecrow). Do you think that Batman 3 should continue this trend? If so, who do you think should be put in the categories?

Just a couple ideas.

 

[HarleenQuinzel]

Harley Quinn should just be left alone and as for the topic of bringing the Joker back I can kind of see why but I'm leaning towards a serious "NO". Also, killing him off is the epitome of wrong. Just wrong.

 

[Snoo]

2) There are certain characters that either won't work or people just don't seem to want in the next film. Hush, Man-Bat, and Mr. Freeze for example. But could their "perfectly" normal alter-egos be included in the film? a la Curt Connors in Spider-Man 2 and 3 without any reference to the Lizard

Yes, sure, I think they could. The thing is, wouldn't the audience wonder why only one side of the character is presented while the superhero/villain side which is seen as the "cooler" one by (I guess) most people, is not?

Lots of people have suggested Dr Harleen Quinzel as a possible cameo in B3 and even I thought about it for a while in some thread ages ago where Harley was discussed but if I remember correctly it was Crook who asked me why include Harleen at all if there's no Harley Quinn? Why put Harley Quinn in the movie if she's not really Harley Quinn? And I think it's a legitimate question. The discussion must have been a year and a half ago and the only other time I ever mentioned Harley on here but I still remember what Crook said.

Maybe a character's cameo or the 'normal alter-ego' would work better in B3 if there was a 4th film planned as well. The other side of the character would be introduced in the 4th film then. But we're assuming we're only getting B3, right?

Harley Quinn should just be left alone and as for the topic of bringing the Joker back I can kind of see why but I'm leaning towards a serious "NO". Also, killing him off is the epitome of wrong. Just wrong.

I agree with everything and I'm also pleasantly surprised a member sharing the name with Harleen Quinzel is against Harley in Nolanverse! That must be a first for me because so far every female Harley fan (especially teenagers) I've stumbled upon wants Harley in the movie badly. Probably because she's like an avatar/self-insert for Joker lovers?

 

[kid dropper]

Im right behind you on no Harley. dont get me wrong, she's had her moments , her origin is grade, she is somewhat valuable for what she brings out in the joker, byut seriously she is one annoying and unecessary character when it comes down to it. The only way id be for harley is if she were silent, like in the azzarello joker gn. never understood the love for the character, except maybe from fangirls, (pardon the inherent chauvinism in the statement im about to make) who seem to latch on to whatever prominent edgy girl character. i mean its a sexy killer clown girl, and thats got a lot of marketing power with the hot topic /cat ears/nightmare before christmas fanatic set. But you dont see me rallying for John Stewart just because im black.

 

[Snoo]

Im right behind you on no Harley. dont get me wrong, she's had her moments , her origin is grade, she is somewhat valuable for what she brings out in the joker, byut seriously she is one annoying and unecessary character when it comes down to it. The only way id be for harley is if she were silent, like in the azzarello joker gn. never understood the love for the character, except maybe from fangirls, (pardon the inherent chauvinism in the statement im about to make) who seem to latch on to whatever prominent edgy girl character. i mean its a sexy killer clown girl, and thats got a lot of marketing power with the hot topic /cat ears/nightmare before christmas fanatic set. But you dont see me rallying for John Stewart just because im black.

It's not just the "sexy killer clown girl" thing (though it's a huge plus to the male fans I'm sure), many female fans admit they love Harley because she's Joker's girlfriend and since they themselves love Joker to death, it's great to imagine how it would be like to be with him. So female fans = Harley. Romantic Joker and Harley fanfiction stories written by 12 year-old girls are proof enough of the phenomenon. They're completely mesmerized by Harley and her relationship with Joker very early on.

From the very beginning when I first saw TAS I thought she represented every young (and not so young, to be fair) girl crushing on the Joker. As I've said, lots of females have loved the character since their childhood and teenage years and she remains their avatar in the Bat verse. It's a fantasy. I didn't grow up with TAS but I can see why the couple would have such an effect on girls.

Of course there are also those who know nothing about the character past the first paragraph of her wiki page, they only know she's Joker's girl and his henchwoman and they like that fantasy. Cue many newbie female fans wanting Harley in B3 - because Heath Ledger's Joker is their latest crush. I see this all the time. They can't even spell the character's name right but they "loooove her". Some also say they love her "but want her to be completely different", explaining how Harley should be instead, proving even further the character's only used as a vessel for their self-inserts.

Sure, there are those who love Harley for other reasons besides her attachment to Joker (and she has enough qualities to like AND dislike) but I'd eat my left foot if the Joker himself wasn't a huge if not the main reason for all the Harley love, in any incarnation. He's the reason she exists in the first place and her best moments in TAS are when they're playing off each other.

*wonders if Harley would have as many new devotees if Heath Ledger wasn't good-looking* You gotta admit the number would be lower because there's fans and there's shallow fans but at least shallow fans don't stick around for long. They latch on to the next celebrity hottie.

 

[weezerspider]

^exactly, the Joker will NOT be recasted, the sooner some of these people realise this the better. To think otherwise is like living in a fantasty world, infact if you think he will be recasted or could be recasted you may as well say hello the santa, the easter bunny and tooth fairy for me while you're in never never land.

because apparantly that's where you left your brain

Thats what every non-comic person over 35 said about Jack until Heath Died. Well, most still said it until they saw TDK. They "perfected" the character so there's no need to bring him back? Well, Alan Moore perfected him in The Killing Joke, so I guess Joker shouldn't have been in comics the last 2 decades. He's Batman's arch-nemisis. In NOLAN's WORLD, there is no threat bigger than him. The sequel can't live up to TDK without The Joker. He doesn't have to be the main villain, but for him to disappear completely after the havoc he caused in TDK would be completely ridiculous and terrible writing.

 

[General_Obol]

Thats what every non-comic person over 35 said about Jack until Heath Died. Well, most still said it until they saw TDK. They "perfected" the character so there's no need to bring him back? Well, Alan Moore perfected him in The Killing Joke, so I guess Joker shouldn't have been in comics the last 2 decades. He's Batman's arch-nemisis. In NOLAN's WORLD, there is no threat bigger than him. The sequel can't live up to TDK without The Joker. He doesn't have to be the main villain, but for him to disappear completely after the havoc he caused in TDK would be completely ridiculous and terrible writing.

I don't think he shouldn't come back because Ledger perfected the character. I don't think he should come back because it would be insulting to the fans and the character to take him from big bad to little more than a goon.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

angelina jolie as catwoman. Just... No. I just think it'd come across as her playing herself.

qft.

 

[zeptron]

-Recasting the Joker. I wouldn't want to see someone else trying to play this particular version of the character after Ledger. The Joker can and should be portrayed again in another Batman film series, but for this one, I really think the character shouldn't return.

 

[KILLING JOKER]

-Recasting the Joker. I wouldn't want to see someone else trying to play this particular version of the character after Ledger. The Joker can and should be portrayed again in another Batman film series, but for this one, I really think the character shouldn't return.

I think it's a real shame that we come to find out that Nolan had a bigger picture in mind for the Joker. I mean, that makes it hard but I do agree that TDK was so powerful and the Joker caused so much chaos that justice was more than done to the character. We can easily move on to a new character.

What I would love is for the Joker to be mentioned a few times. I mean, who would be able to forget the crap that he put Gotham through. Maybe the new villan could admire the Joker and want to take his place. Pretty easy to write that in.

Riddler.......Come on! Wash "spank me" from my mind forever!

 

[Adrian89]

Angelina Jolie as Catwoman. Just... no. I just think it'd come across as her playing herself.

AGREED!!!!!!! One of the worst sugestions.

Here are some more:
- Joker returning and also recasting;

- Two-Face returning (one of my favorite villains, but he's done. Been there, done that. I want new villains, there are much more in the Batman universe which deserve to be brought on the big screen);

- Marion Cotillard as Selina Kyle/Catwoman (She's cute, but no. Just because she was starring in PB with Bale, doesn't mean she should play this role.).

 

[Laderlappen]

- Marion Cotillard as Selina Kyle/Catwoman (She's cute, but no. Just because she was starring in PB with Bale, doesn't mean she should play this role.).

That is really not the reason people want her for the role if you honestly believe that. Did Nolan cast Heath Ledger just because he was in I'm Not There?

Fine if you dont want her for the role, but do you really think she's one of the worst suggestions?

 

[Ion Kenshin]

IMO the Joker should get no more than a mention of some sort for the third film. Have the people who make these outlandish suggestion ever read comic book. It's not the same damn villain every issue. I personally wouldn't mind them doing something along the lines of what they did with Scarecrow. Just show Bats or the cops throwing joker into a cop car or Arkham after being caught again have some quick dialogue about him escaping again and move on. Do it right at the beginning of the movie and move on. There is no need to just throw the same villains at people because they are familiar. There are a wealth of other characters to use and I think it's high time we get people familiar with them.

 

[NotAHenchwench]

That is really not the reason people want her for the role if you honestly believe that. Did Nolan cast Heath Ledger just because he was in I'm Not There?

Fine if you dont want her for the role, but do you really think she's one of the worst suggestions?

I'm probably stepping in where I shouldn't, but I just don't think Catwoman would work in what Nolan is trying to do. I mean, more power to him if he finds a way to stick her in there and make it believable, but I'm really not holding my breath.

As far as Harley goes, I agree that she doesn't belong in "Nolanverse". I like what you said, Snoo, about the fangirls thinking of it as a fantasy. I like the idea of Harley Quinn, but she was super annoying in TAS and it irritated me. Sure, some people write fanfiction to insert themselves into the Bat-Universe so they can be closer to the Joker and in doing so, romanticise a maniacal, psychopathic killer. There are some of us that LIKE how messed up he is, we can appreciate what he really is, not just have a Sunday School version of his character to play with.

It reminds me of what happened when Pirates of the Carribbean came out into theatres. All of a sudden, I started to see and hear rabid fangirls saying crap like "OMGZ!!! Pirates are so SEXY! I love Jack Sparrow!!" And I remember standing there thinking "What the hell is wrong with you people?" Pirates are ruthless, merciless people. They rob, steal, rape... it's not pretty what they do, and it's been de-sensitized by pop culture.

Sorry that turned into a rant... but I feel your sentiment(s) regarding Harley Quinn. But, to be fair (and Devil's Advocate), Harley's character isn't set in stone. I mentioned before how the Joker is interpreted about a billion different ways depending on who you talk to (or which comic/graphic novel you've read). I think Harley can fit into whatever medium somebody wants. We might not necessarily agree, or like it, but it isn't impossible. But that's the nature of the beast, as they say.

All that said, I don't think she should be in the next movie. I'm not even sure that they should do a next movie at all. It's still up in the air with me personally. If they make it, I'll go see it because I'll be curious to see what they've done, but I don't know (and I'm glad not to know) how they're going to do it.

 

[Minus Shock]

He is a criminal mastermind? Wow! I knew he was smart but not that smart lol.

In all fairness he was smart enough to break the Bat. Granted he chose a bad form way to do it, but none the less he knew how to get to him.

 

[Minus Shock]

I am tired of people trying to argue that Robin would fit in this movie. I think he would fit in the Nolan-verse, but not the third movie. As I said in the Robin thread, Batman's an outlaw now. No one should be looking up to him, he wouldn't accept an apprentice when his public image is still tarnished as a murderer. Not to mention after loosing Rachel and even Dent (though he wasn't too close personally) He would be far too much of an emotional wreck to handle a tween sidekick.

I love the Riddler. But why should the plot of the third movie again be "Who is the Batman?" It's played out. The Riddler can do more than just ask who is Batman.

The notion that Harley Quinn would have scars too is ******ed. First it takes away from Joker having them, secondly it's just unnecessary. Secondly, why would Harley be in this movie when common sense has to tell people the Joker wont be. Even if Heath were alive, I wouldn't want them to use Joker. It's a cop out. Nolan made Ra's Al Ghul and Scarecrow awesome, he brought the best version of Joker and Two Face to the big screen, it's time to take his shot at other villains. The Dark Knight is one of my favorite movies but I don't want to see it rehashed and called a threequel. I want Nolan to put out the best threequel installment, I want to see him put out a movie that completely stands on it's own, and can rival Dark Knight. Otherwise why bother doing it?

Catwoman would be completely wasted in this movie. Again she has her place in future movies, but like Robin, Bruce is not ready to start loving again.

 

[Mr. Earle]

The notion that Harley Quinn would have scars too is ******ed. First it takes away from Joker having them, secondly it's just unnecessary. Secondly, why would Harley be in this movie when common sense has to tell people the Joker wont be. Even if Heath were alive, I wouldn't want them to use Joker. It's a cop out. Nolan made Ra's Al Ghul and Scarecrow awesome, he brought the best version of Joker and Two Face to the big screen, it's time to take his shot at other villains. The Dark Knight is one of my favorite movies but I don't want to see it rehashed and called a threequel. I want Nolan to put out the best threequel installment, I want to see him put out a movie that completely stands on it's own, and can rival Dark Knight. Otherwise why bother doing it?

I second this. Especially Harley's scars.
So anyway, since Nolan doesnt have a big encompassing story for a trilogy, why stop at the third movie? He could easily do a 4th if he wanted. There is no rule stating that directors have to stop at trilogies.

 

[Minus Shock]

I second this. Especially Harley's scars.
So anyway, since Nolan doesnt have a big encompassing story for a trilogy, why stop at the third movie? He could easily do a 4th if he wanted. There is no rule stating that directors have to stop at trilogies.

I don't think he would want to do a fourth one honestly. I mean it almost seems like pins and needles to get him to return for the third one. I agree there isn't particularly a trilogy story going on here, but I just presume Nolan and CO wont return for anymore. I would love it if they did though. I mean didn't Raimi and Co say they weren't doing anymore Spider-Man movies after 3?

I hate how people talk about "I dont want to be type cast, I want to be this great actor/director"

I think creating a character and letting him evolve and grow from movie to movie makes you just as good, if not a better actor than going and doing a ton of different kinds of roles. Look at Vin Diesel. He turns down Fast and Furious 2 and xXx 2 because he doesn't want to be the action star he was born to be and look what we got. Two terrible sequels and The Pacifier.

This is why I do kinda love Jackman because he will do other things but he will return as Wolverine for nothing more than his respect for the character for making him a star. Granted after Wolverine I really hope he loves and respects the character enough to leave him alone but that's neither here nor there. I wish more people would care more about the work and less about their status and their next oscar and crap.