X-Men 3...seriously fans/people--WHY all the hate?

Discussion in 'X-Men 1, 2 & 3' started by 4NutzinYoface, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. Angamb

    Angamb Well-Known Member

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    Ratner and Fox mainly cared for Wolverine and Storm. The other x-men werent interesting enough to make them shine

    :whatever:
     
    #101
  2. ThePhantasm

    ThePhantasm 2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper

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    These were the big faults of the film to me.
     
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  3. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    Important characters die in Greek tragedies and Shakespeare plays, just to name a few examples. I don't get how this is inherently wrong.

    :up:



    Cyclops was never the most important character in the movies, as he has been in the comics. But if he dies, wouldn't it have been really painful if no one led the team and gave an inspirational speech? And well, there was a connection between Logan and Jean, and it was not her saying "forget it man, I just love Scott." Wasn't here, wasn't in the previous movies.

    And sure, most movies would have had no hero dead and all good guys rescued just fine. But to act like this is a rule that can't be broken, and pretending this movie is bad because of how much more traditional it could have been, it's a little too much.




    Every X-Men movie has had to make its choice. You cannot give 15 characters the same importance. And it's clear that X-Men and X2 also favored Wolverine above the rest.

    But I'd add to that list Magneto and Xavier, who were always important to the three first movies.
     
    #103
  4. psylockolussus

    psylockolussus Well-Known Mutant

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    I think if they minimized the amount of *characters* that were in the movie, it would have been so much better. Sure it was cool and interesting to see many mutants in 1 movie but if you don't give them much role or importance, then its really not good.

    With the Brotherhood, I wouldn't include Omega Kid, Arclight, Psylocke and Multiple Man. I would just focus on Magneto, Jean, Callisto, Mystique, Pyro and Juggernaut and I would give them more things to do especially Juggernaut.

    Then for the X-Men, I would include Angel in the battle as one of the X-Men, I would give Colossus more lines and importance in the team, Cyclops will be in the movie until the climax of the film and even if Rogue takes the cure, I would give her action scene first.

    I also wouldn't include Trask in the movie and I would stay true to the physical appearance of Leach in the comics.
     
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  5. pr0xyt0xin

    pr0xyt0xin Shaper Savant

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    I don't "hate" X3. I mean, I'd say it's the worst of the trilogy. X1 and X2 are somewhat better. I also don't hold those first two in very high regard. They are all just average to me.

    There were some flaws with X3. (But there were flaws in all the others too)
    - Shadowcat/Iceman romance? lame. Colossus was ripe for the picking.
    - Angel. lame. superfluous. erroneous.
    - Cyclops' death. lame. needs to be retconned.

    Otherwise I'd say it's still watchable. And a decent addition to an average trilogy.
     
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  6. Human Torch

    Human Torch Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I really hated was Scott's death.He was one of my favorite characters,but (arguably) apart from the first film,he never really got his due in this series.Of course,we could probably thank Superman Returns for his lack of screen time.

    I really liked the battle between Prof X and Mag over Jean and the subsequent "house fight".That was probably the highlight for me.

    It had great action.Beast was great.Juggie was cool.Some nice payoffs like Iceman vs Pyro.In all honesty,I was glad it wasn't quite as heavyhanded as Singer's films usually got.
     
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  7. Daybreak_st

    Daybreak_st Old-School Comic Cool

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    Sorry but that movie was awful from every angle.

    1. Killing off Cyclops at the beginning off screen, no real explanation as to why - Remember Jean didn't just go killing everyone but only when agitated, so her killing Xavier actually made some sense but Cyclops? What the heck did he ever do to her?

    2. Wasted use of Colosuss. As another poster said Colosus was perfectly teased in X2 so why is his use so minimilzed in this film? Also you have Juggernaught and Colosuss in the same film....a yet they never fight? :doh: No instead we have kitty pride run thru a wall let Jugs knock himself out! Really?!

    3. Wasted use of Angel. Great actor, great look, even an compelling intro to the character but them he does...nothing. Yep.

    4. Phoenix. I don't mind it being a part of Jean's personality instead of an alien entity but could we at least show some internal conflict instead of just going full on crazy, killing indiscriminately with no real motive and then no redemption! Nothing. No glimpse of Jean, no remorse at Scott's death, nothing, just Wolverine (again saving the day) but killing her. Waste.

    5. Wolverine being the sole focus of the film...again! :o You've already had two movies featuring him, now there's a third then he gets two spinoff movies. come on! Can you say over exposure. Hugh is a great actor but frankly I can't wait until we actually get an X-men minus him.

    6. Psylocke and some of the other morlocks in name only. too many characters just thrown in for their for no reason.

    7. Magento's master plan...toss cars into the air while pyro sets them on fire :dry: Consider me underwhelmed.

    That's just off the top of my head.
     
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  8. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    It's perfectly explained. Jean is no Jean any more. Her negative instincts are all unbounded, that's very well explained in the movie. Her emotions are not only madly strengthened but also mixed. Her passion for this significant one from the past got mixed with her destructive instincts. Eros and thanatos together with no control whatsoever. She also killed Xavier himself, what the heck did he ever do to her. And even Magneto was slightly scared of her too.

    Heh, "perfectly teased" is another term for "underused." No matter what, you cannot give every character a lot of time in a movie like this. There's just no way. Cyclops was underused in every movie according to many fans. It's far from being a problem of this movie exclusively.

    But yes, Kitty and Juggernaut worked because their powers are diverse, it's not just the very strong vs very strong usual fight. And that's the richness of having such a diversity of super-powers. You can control metal, what good is it against a plastic cell; you can heal yourself, what good is when another mutant can take your powers away.

    Nope. He saved his father who was ashamed of him before. He gave another angle to the mutant issue, showing what happens if the mutant "condition" affects within his own family to one important man directly involved in the "anti-mutation cause." That son showed his dad that mutation was nothing to be ashamed of, whereas his own father had been ashamed of him.

    The story needed further development, sure, but in so little time it did what it needed to.

    You have that conflict when she faces Magneto and Xavier, and then when she faced Logan. And asking Logan to kill her was her redemption by showing remorse of what she was then.

    As you say, this is not this movie characteristics but every single one of them (I'm talking about the first trilogy, of course). In movies overpopulated with superheroes you have to make your choices, but X-Men TLS didn't do any differently as its predecessors.

    There was plenty of reasons. This plot involved every mutant on earth. Of course there was a reason to have many of them as the main story here was how mutants were taking sides here.

    That's not his master plan and I know you must understand this. Otherwise consider Senator Pleasury underwhelmed.

    Many of those either were in the movie or were common to every X-Men movie man.
     
    #108
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  9. Daybreak_st

    Daybreak_st Old-School Comic Cool

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    Sorry but it's woefully inconsistent. Her first instinct is to kill the man she love, after kissing him? How does that make sense? She doesn't kill Magneto who presented a persistent threat, she doesn't kill Xavier until he provokes her so even that makes a little more sense. Scott actually frees her from the watery grave and the first thing she does is kill him? THAT MAKES NO SENSE!!!! I don't care how you spin it, the logic just isn't there.

    It wasn't brain surgery, just have those two guys throw down a little, it was perfectly setup. It would've at least given Colossus a meaningful role in the film even if it was short, taking out the Juggernaut. But again he's wasted.

    I guess I just don't remember that much but it seemed like why even add the character for such a small role and lack of development. We saw plenty of angles on the Mutant view point we didn't need him added for that.

    It just seemed like so little. I mean again her first action is to kill Scott but them everyone gets a free pass until the end of the film (except for Xavier who provoked her). How is that logical? It felt more like character assassination. I really wish her story was the focus instead of the background.

    Oh I agree but why keep expanding the cast if your focus will always stay with one person? Just more background/underdeveloped characters. I really hope for a Wolverine non-focused X-men franchise one day. And it really needs a full reboot bc as it will continue to tie-in to the previous franchise and miss the opportunity to tap into the more exotic aspects of the X-men universe like space travel, the savage land, etc. Not the fault of this movie per se but just the franchise as a whole.

    What was the master plan other than stopping the mutant cure? For the grand finale I remain underwhelmed. :jedi
     
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  10. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    Sir, please. It's all well set and explained even when not immediately. Magneto does not present an immediate threat since he has protected her from those who wanted to "control" her. That makes perfect sense.

    Sure, you'd have wanted to give Colossus a meaningful role and that's fine and right. But you cannot blame this one movie for not taking your choice and yet ignore all the previous movies did the same.

    We had seen plenty of the mutant angle but this "cure" one was a different one. Specially if someone would want to get rid of one of their heirs.

    One thing you have to bear in mind is that logic is the one thing Phoenix will NOT have into account. As I, and the actual movie, actually explained, is that the character is pure instinct unbounded.

    As I said, you gotta make choices in this kind of movie.

    Destroying everything is not a master plan, but the final part of it. And the way it is performed could vary.
     
    #110
  11. Daybreak_st

    Daybreak_st Old-School Comic Cool

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    Dude even Famke Jensen didn't think her character was handled well.

    http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2008/06/famke-janssen-speaks-out-over.html

    Here's a quote:
    It may have satisfied you but this film didn't exactly get rave reviews from fans or critics.
     
    #111
  12. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    Dude, the guy who played Hawkeye in "The Avengers" didn't like how his character was handled. Is that a sign that the movie is bad?

    And please, man, why oh why should I care for what fans or critics say? To "fit in"? We all, in this forum, are also critics and fans.
     
    #112
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
  13. Daybreak_st

    Daybreak_st Old-School Comic Cool

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    Yeah we all have opinions just saying most people didn't think the film was as good as you did. Anyway stumbled upon this and thought it was interesting, the movie sounds a lot better than what we got:

    http://screenrant.com/bryan-singers-x-men-3-4-story-rob-34720/

    Notice the actual inclusion of Cyclops and satisfying ending for Jean.

     
    #113
  14. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    So, why having forums? Why opening threads? Why posting in them? Why making a list of what you think was bad executed? We just check what a majority thinks and we call it a day.

    That said, even this movie's low rate at Rottentomatoes is not under 50%, which means... not the majority.




    Having better ideas (if they are) than what we got in a certain movie, doesn't make that movie bad, you see.
     
    #114
  15. Daybreak_st

    Daybreak_st Old-School Comic Cool

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    Yeahh i can see your point. This movie is just a sore spot with me. I'm actually one of those few people didnt think Wolverine Origins was that bad so i really can't insult anyone else's opinion lol
     
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  16. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    No problem. Senator Pleasury approves this post.:up:
     
    #116
  17. doobie

    doobie Well-Known Member

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    I thought the whole series let fans down by making tough, charismatic female characters more nice and "Hollywood girlfriend" like. Storm, a haughty African queen, made gentle and polite, Jean had none of her passion or noble soul either Dark or before, Emma Frost in FC was so much more wooden than I hoped especially after Morrison's version.

    I think though this film was the worst for that, side-lining Dark Phoenix and making her a henchman. She should have had her own epic, tragic story, about the question of how the X Men can react when a loved one goes out of control, but it was lost in the other plot.
     
    #117
  18. BenKenobi

    BenKenobi Well-Known Member

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    Anyone else bothered by the fact Pyro's hair was clearly brown in X-Men 2 then it was bright blonde in 3? Idk it's not a but deal but it really bugs me.

    Anyway, just everything was wrong. It was too much blatant fan service and action porn and lacked the subtle substance that made the other two films so great. Even when I was 13 and I saw it for the first time in theaters I knew something didn't sit right.
     
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  19. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    Well, Phoenix had her scenes but yes, after the house fight scene it was relegated to a second position which happens a lot in this kind of overpopulated movies.




    I never realized that.

    What were the 'subtle substance' in X2, if I may ask? I remember lots of action in that movie. The whole White House scene at the beginning was all for showing off how many cool special effects can you out in one scene.

    In fact X2 forgot everything about mutants being social outcasts and it was another regular story of good guys vs bad guys. At least X-Men TLS came back to the original premise of the story.
     
    #119
  20. Manic X

    Manic X Well-Known Member

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    Complaining about Pyro's hair? That's just nonsense. Characters are allowed to change their hairstyles.
     
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  21. psylockolussus

    psylockolussus Well-Known Mutant

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    I actually liked that they changed Pyro's hair color in X3.

    It seems pointless but hey Pyro is blonde in the comics and X1.
     
    #121
  22. GuestStar2004

    GuestStar2004 Well-Known Member

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    Just heard an interview on youtube with david hayter where he talks about what would have been his X3 script with singer at 45:00

    [YT]NbyHtd0_rdE#t=2708s[/YT]

    apologies if this has already been posted, sadly the wolverine loves jean stuff seems to still be there, no mention of cyclops... perhaps its good david hayter isn't involved with DOFP

    he apparently wrote a big part of X1 & X2 and loves wolverine as a character
     
    #122
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2013
  23. psylockolussus

    psylockolussus Well-Known Mutant

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    I wish he contributed something to X3.
     
    #123
  24. Asteroid-Man

    Asteroid-Man Ham Sammiches

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    Dear God... I'm rewatching this now and the pacing and dialogue are horrendous.
     
    #124
  25. psylockolussus

    psylockolussus Well-Known Mutant

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    Storm: What happened?!!?!!
    Wolverine: No clue!!!

    Cyclops: How?
    Jean Grey: I don't know
     
    #125

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