Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 3

[Zero_Effect]

They don't care because they haven't been given any reason to care. You have to make people care with appealing characterization.

Nobody cared about Guardians of the Galaxy or Captain America either. The filmmakers made them care.

We desperately need a fully characterized X-men film.

They cared because they got good movies. DoFP was a good movie and so was First Class. Neither did the business it should have, so there is some kind of disconnect with X-Men. I think it might almost be people don't see it as a comic book movie but as just another franchise.

 

[Iceman]

Pre-X3 momentum is kind of hard to gain in this environment. Remember, not a lot of challengers in the early 00s. And even then, Spider-Man crushed X-Men.

Spider-man had the full faith of the studio and the budget to achieve a real Spidey on screen. Singer did amazingly with the budget and the harsh late cuts to the budget but that meant he could create a good film but not a visual feast like seeing Spidey for the first time. Imagine the situations reversed and them coming up with a passable Spidey costume on a guy (no CGI) like the guy in Disneyland (which actually looks pretty cool lol) and then getting a big budget X-Men with no expense spared as a follow up to that Spidey's success. If Avengers had come out in 2000 with X1's budget and X1 come out in 2012 with Avengers' budget I think the GA would be regarding the 2 properties very differently. Everything is easy in hindsight of course but if you asked comic fans before this CBM generation they wouldn't necessarily all be telling you that an Avengers film would smash an X-Men film. I think it's more about the execution than the underlying property being weak.

 

[chamber-music]

studios need to stop releasing films overseas first.

Studios have good reasons for opening films overseas first sometimes. Early openings might benefit from local holidays in those countries. Sometimes times if something is a hit overseas first it generates buzz in the domestic market. There may be other big movies opening at the same time in international markets that could hurt the studio's movie at the box office so they have to open it earlier in some territories. Openings can coincide with the press tour.

There are all sorts of valid reasons.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Fatigue sets in when the GA thinks you are doing the same things. Bond saw a resurgence when they changed things up after decades. It doesn't matter if you do different things, the GA has to be aware and for a comic film that will happen in trailers and TV spots and other marketing. You need to bring a lot more bang for your buck to get those guys in the cinema. Once they're in then you give them a film on the level of DoFP and they will be converted. Most weren't converted by DoFP because they had already given up on the franchise and 5 star reviews aren't going to be enough to bring them back. It was the same for me with Star Trek. With that reboot I became a big fan. But if they had given me the exact same films and marketed them as part of the same old same old I wouldn't even have read the review that tells me its awesome.

Fox isn't going to spend more money since apocalypse is now projected at 170 Million domestic gross and 567 Million WW.

With the rebooted bond films i relcuently went to theater to see casino royale and didn't return till specte.Spectre is only craig film i loved as longtime bond fan.and with star trek as longtime treeker Into darkness was first trek film i didn't buy on DVD and beyond will be first trek film i won't even bother with.If rumors on new trek show are true then i may sign up for CBS streaming for their new show.

The franchise will never return to preX3 stage since some will always be rooting for it's failure so X-men will be given to disney.

 

[Tymminator]

They don't care because they haven't been given any reason to care. You have to make people care with appealing characterization.

Nobody cared about Guardians of the Galaxy or Captain America either. The filmmakers made them care.

We desperately need a fully characterized X-men film.

Totally.

This is a GROUP movie and the focus should be the group.

To have a hard focus on pretty much the same 3-4 people, even if it's well done gets old very fast, especially when two of them are/were pretty much Villians most of the time.

The X-Men are heroes, there are a lot of them and they are complex characters on their own right and need to be handled as such.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

They cared because they got good movies. DoFP was a good movie and so was First Class. Neither did the business it should have, so there is some kind of disconnect with X-Men. I think it might almost be people don't see it as a comic book movie but as just another franchise.

No. Those films are still about Prof X, Magneto and Lawrence. The X-men are still shafted. The characterization and team dynamics are still muted.

The secret to broader general appeal is character. Marvel figured this out. Deadpool spelled it out for Fox.

 

[X Knight]

Fatigue sets in when the GA thinks you are doing the same things. Bond saw a resurgence when they changed things up after decades. It doesn't matter if you do different things, the GA has to be aware and for a comic film that will happen in trailers and TV spots and other marketing. You need to bring a lot more bang for your buck to get those guys in the cinema. Once they're in then you give them a film on the level of DoFP and they will be converted. Most weren't converted by DoFP because they had already given up on the franchise and 5 star reviews aren't going to be enough to bring them back. It was the same for me with Star Trek. With that reboot I became a big fan. But if they had given me the exact same films and marketed them as part of the same old same old I wouldn't even have read the review that tells me its awesome.

agreed.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Spider-man had the full faith of the studio and the budget to achieve a real Spidey on screen. Singer did amazingly with the budget and the harsh late cuts to the budget but that meant he could create a good film but not a visual feast like seeing Spidey for the first time. Imagine the situations reversed and them coming up with a passable Spidey costume on a guy (no CGI) like the guy in Disneyland (which actually looks pretty cool lol) and then getting a big budget X-Men with no expense spared as a follow up to that Spidey's success. If Avengers had come out in 2000 with X1's budget and X1 come out in 2012 with Avengers' budget I think the GA would be regarding the 2 properties very differently. Everything is easy in hindsight of course but if you asked comic fans before this CBM generation they wouldn't necessarily all be telling you that an Avengers film would smash an X-Men film. I think it's more about the execution than the underlying property being weak.

What about Apocalypse then? Singer had plenty of money but the green screen work and compositing are flawed. The wirework is still awful. The team based action still sucks.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Totally.

This is a GROUP movie and the focus should be the group.

To have a hard focus on pretty much the same 3-4 people, even if it's well done gets old very fast, especially when two of them are/were pretty much Villians most of the time.

The X-Men are heroes, there are a lot of them and they are complex characters on their own right and need to be handled as such.

This is getting old.They had devolpment of cyclops and Jean in apocalypse.after the box office Lawrence is pretty much out the door.Fassbender could be as well.With Singer gone you still are going to have kinberg writing.whoever directs next film is going to have to do it
with much lower budget than last stand,DOFP,and Apocalypse get.

People are always going to moan about X-men films.why is my favorate doesn't get the focus like such and such.If cyclops and jean get main focus of next full X-men film others will still complain.

 

[Iceman]

Fox isn't going to spend more money since apocalypse is now projected at 170 Million domestic gross and 567 Million WW.

With the rebooted bond films i relcuently went to theater to see casino royale and didn't return till specte.Spectre is only craig film i loved as longtime bond fan.and with star trek as longtime treeker Into darkness was first trek film i didn't buy on DVD and beyond will be first trek film i won't even bother with.If rumors on new trek show are true then i may sign up for CBS streaming for their new show.

The franchise will never return to preX3 stage since some will always be rooting for it's failure so X-men will be given to disney.

It's either going to do big bucks eventually or it'll do big bucks when it goes back to Disney in the long term. That's the one thing I like about the rights situation. I'm guaranteed X-related films till the end of time while they're at Fox just to keep onto the rights. The characters like Deadpool can only sustain things for so long. A trilogy sure, maybe 4 or 5 films even. But I don't think the audience will be watching Deadpool for decades on end so if the team films don't start performing better the future is limited, especially given that even well budgeted X-films aren't cheap to produce.

 

[GuestStar2004]

No. Those films are still about Prof X, Magneto and Lawrence. The X-men are still shafted. The characterization and team dynamics are still muted.

Character is still character, no matter whose character it is.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Character is still character, no matter whose character it is.

Tell that to the dwindling Box office.

The films are called X-Men. But all the general public sees are three normal looking people (Jen is sometimes blue) going through the same arcs over and over again.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Character is still character, no matter whose character it is.

People are sick of Mystique Magneto Xavier (as main character). Move Xavier to lead support character and take the other two out the movie.

Develop the actual X-Men (minus wolverine). This **** isn't rocket science.

Give the people who they want

 

[Iceman]

What about Apocalypse then? Singer had plenty of money but the green screen work and compositing are flawed. The wirework is still awful. The team based action still sucks.

That's Singer though. I've liked all his X-films, but he isn't a big budget action director skilled in the use of choreography, modern effects and CGI relative to some of his competitors. He's more suited to story driven films like Usual Suspects.

 

[chamber-music]

Lawrence said she had a pact with Fassbender and McAvoy that either they all come back or none of them do.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Imagine if both the Avengers and AOU were about the repetitive ideological struggles of Loki and Nick Fury and so was Infinity War. With Cap being repeatedly shafted and Thor being mute.

 

[micsin]

the movie only made $$$ SIXTY-FIVE million this weekend!?

 

[marvelrobbins]

People are sick of Mystique Magneto Xavier (as main character). Move Xavier to lead support character and take the other two out the movie.

Develop the actual X-Men (minus wolverine). This **** isn't rocket science.

Give the people who they want

they have already setup cyclops and jean to be major characters.with underperforming of apoclaypse lawrence is gone.Fassbender possibly too.

and as much as people don't want to hear it.wolverine is a draw.and he is likely to return.recasted if they can't get Jackman back.

 

[GuestStar2004]

People are sick of Mystique Magneto Xavier (as main character). Move Xavier to lead support character and take the other two out the movie.

To be honest from what i can tell there are alot people that still love magneto and removing the character won't suddenly grab attention as if people are now thinking oh thank goodness i was getting so sick of magneto i might see this movie now.

We are all looking for something to blame and fans are instantly gonna say well if you take away elements the film series created or made more important and go more into the comic route then people will rush to see the movie... which is not the case, do the characters need to be changed up a little? yes but taking characters out with the idea a much larger casual audience will now see the movie... isn't likely, magneto wasn't the issue with this movie or the reviews.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Lawrence said she had a pact with Fassbender and McAvoy that either they all come back or none of them do.

Mcavoy in interview said that was first he heard about it.

Mcavoy kind of hinted the report of him being in new mutants is true.

 

[Zero_Effect]

Imagine if both the Avengers and AOU were about the repetitive ideological struggles of Loki and Nick Fury and so was Infinity War. With Cap being repeatedly shafted and Thor being mute.

Instead we just got a movie that made a billion dollars about the ideological struggles between Captain America and Iron Man.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Lawrence said she had a pact with Fassbender and McAvoy that either they all come back or none of them do.

that was likely a joke

 

[Raiden]

No. Those films are still about Prof X, Magneto and Lawrence. The X-men are still shafted. The characterization and team dynamics are still muted.

The secret to broader general appeal is character. Marvel figured this out. Deadpool spelled it out for Fox.

Exactly. For a movie about X-MEN, they spent more time on Magneto and Mystique than just about every X-Men in their movies, and it has been happening like this since FC. The group dynamic that we have seen the comics still has not been realized, and it will never happen as long Singer is at the helm.

 

[TheNewSlayer]

It really was, i also question why they released it to critics so early, did they have screenings and did they go very well? were they just over confident and didn't think critics would rip into it? weird

they obviously thought critics would like it instead of them ripping into film.
if weren't for critics we may have had a 90 million 4 day weekend.

Exactly.

They thought that critics would love the movie. There was a screening in Las Vegas that was a hit, so maybe they thought that critics would right good reviews.

They have to on the next X-Men movie:

- Release on the same weekend for the whole world, specially US.
- Hold the reviews until the release day. (even if they think it will get good ones)
- Focus on the new x-men team showed in the end of the movie and have them using their costumes. Just let the black suit die.
- Not spoil so much of the movie on the trailers.
- Don't promote the actors, promote the characters. If actors like Jennifer and Nick don't want to be blue then don't hire them for this movie, use new characters instead who will accept the terms. I'm not saying use another actor to play Beast and Mystique, just don't use them in the movie. To be fair Mystique doesn't walk naked in the comics, this was wrong in the movies to begin with. Bryan is ashamed to use costumes. Notice how we only see costumes in the last scene of the movie. The last scene! So if people don't like the costumes it doesn't affect him, cause he can always go back to black suits.

 

[Raiden]

Instead we just got a movie that made a billion dollars about the ideological struggles between Captain America and Iron Man.

It's the only movie that has this ideological struggle between Iron Man and Cap. For X-Men, it's in every movie.