Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 28

[def28]

Post fighting Apocalypse and with Danger Room training my $ is on Jean

Jean needs a few films to progress. Can't have her already in full control owning everybody after one fight and just becoming an X-Men. Gotta hint at that power without being able to take advantage of what lies within.

Can't have her letting Toad give her a run for her money either haha. There's a balance to be had to make battles interesting. With telepaths, young Jean should be more unpredictable and erratic with strong power while older telepaths like Xavier or Frost would have their power set more defined by experience.

 

[Urich Leeds]

Well [BLACKOUT]there was mention in the spoilers of a locket that storm takes from jubilee and looking at storm in that picture she has some small around thing on her chest and I dunno whether that's part of the costume or something that's around her neck but there is something there[/BLACKOUT]

I do hope i am wrong and it's nothing

Wait, what spoilers? Link?

 

[x-er]

Would it be sad if

Spoiler

Jubilee died though?

Jean died in X2 and it wasn't necessarily depressing. It was more of a shock, I'd say.

 

[def28]

Would it be sad if

Spoiler

Jubilee died though?

Jean died in X2 and it wasn't necessarily depressing. It was more of a shock, I'd say.

I think there would be more disappointment and anger then sadness.

Spoiler

There's a big difference between being executed in a small introductory role and being developed as the female lead for two films and saving everyone in the closing moment, knowing you will return as the Phoenix.

 

[x-er]

Exactly. Jubilee will mean less to the audience (and she already means less to the fans just from her contribution to X-lore anyway). It could be a good plot device though.

Also... what if Jubilee gets cloned in an X5, that way they can have something closer to the 90's team ? : D Win - win!

 

[def28]

I'm against most these characters dying without proper development, I want to care about them first. If anyone is to die, Havok makes the most sense given that death can motivate Scott. Jubilee is popular and well known for better or worse. Lots of people like her, have been patient for her showing up and will be hoping to see her portrayed well finally.

I've seen the Darwin sacrifice and plenty of death shock value already played in this new X-Men trilogy. It's just kinda annoying now if they don't earn it with proper character development arcs first. The majority of these characters were not created just for them to show up and die.

And after hearing Snyder recently interviewed about a certain character in BvS, that kind of disrespect just steers me the wrong way and ruins my enjoyment or why I should support these films if the filmmakers themselves cannot respect the characters. I don't want X-Men Apocalypse to play that bs. Takes away from the experience knowing they did a character disservice.

 

[Danbito]

I'm against most these characters dying without proper development, I want to care about them first. If anyone is to die, Havok makes the most sense given that death can motivate Scott.

I've seen the Darwin sacrifice and plenty of death shock value already played in this new X-Men trilogy. It's just kinda annoying now if they don't earn it with proper character development arcs first. The majority of these characters were not created just for them to show up and die.

And after hearing Snyder recently interviewed about a certain character in BvS, that kind of disrespect just steers me the wrong way and ruins my enjoyment or why I should support these films if the filmmakers themselves cannot respect the characters. I don't want X-Men Apocalypse to play that bs. Takes away from the experience knowing they did a character disservice.

Spoiler

It's sad that there's two characters that for Snyder that fit that bill: Jimmy Olsen and Superman.

 

[def28]

Seriously, I just don't get it.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I'm against most these characters dying without proper development, I want to care about them first. If anyone is to die, Havok makes the most sense given that death can motivate Scott. Jubilee is popular and well known for better or worse. Lots of people like her, have been patient for her showing up and will be hoping to see her portrayed well finally.

I've seen the Darwin sacrifice and plenty of death shock value already played in this new X-Men trilogy. It's just kinda annoying now if they don't earn it with proper character development arcs first. The majority of these characters were not created just for them to show up and die.

And after hearing Snyder recently interviewed about a certain character in BvS, that kind of disrespect just steers me the wrong way and ruins my enjoyment or why I should support these films if the filmmakers themselves cannot respect the characters. I don't want X-Men Apocalypse to play that bs. Takes away from the experience knowing they did a character disservice.

If something does happen to jubilee chances are there will be enough material to make us care, they will probably flesh her out with the new students

But I think it would be a mistake purely because it's jubilee, it feels like a wrong fit to use her in that way, no matter how much you sugar coat it in emotion it still feels wrong to me

 

[psylockolussus]

Exactly. Jubilee will mean less to the audience (and she already means less to the fans just from her contribution to X-lore anyway). It could be a good plot device though.

Also... what if Jubilee gets cloned in an X5, that way they can have something closer to the 90's team ? : D Win - win!

I'd rather see Kwannon or Sunfire than a Jubilee clone.

 

[Danbito]

I doubt most cases of cloning won't work for films. It's one thing when it happens in comics but another for the big screen. I mean, we had a similar case with Prof. X for DoFP and the best case explanation for that was "don't worry about it". Mind transfer to a twin, but still paralyzed in his legs?

 

[GuestStar2004]

I notice when someone is killed off there is always someone who says clone them and bring them back, cyclops,emma ect ect.

Anyone whose killed won't be brought back with cloning, if it ever happens though it will probably only happen once with one character for an important purpose.

 

[X-Maniac]

FoX looks at things differently than fans.


If FoX sees a Mutant with telepathy who is a former Villian and future X-Man then they'd probably prefer that to cloning Emma who wasn't received well in FC.

Hell I want to bring in Sara Grey and develop her latent Powers like Claremont wanted in the 80's. She'd add to Jean's supporting cast like Stevie Hunter would add to Storm's.

I already said I like Emma alot but nobody is safe in this universe and there's 10+ characters waiting to replace anyone who loses they spot

And that's the problem. This is why certain characters end up being mistreated, and sometimes even being used twice or more in different versions (Emma, Trask, Psylocke, Jubilee, Angel, etc). At times it looks like they don't know what they are doing. And a lot of times it looks like they don't know the material.

If they immersed themselves in the source material (ie read the comics properly), they'd get a true sense of the characters' place in the overall mythology - the characterisations, relationships, power usages.

Anyone making these films should read the X-Men comics. Not just the ones relating to the story they are adapting, but the whole lot - as many as possible from the very beginning. Then they'd get a real sense of the X-Men and who matters and why.

 

[X-Maniac]

I doubt most cases of cloning won't work for films. It's one thing when it happens in comics but another for the big screen. I mean, we had a similar case with Prof. X for DoFP and the best case explanation for that was "don't worry about it". Mind transfer to a twin, but still paralyzed in his legs?

Xavier has been cloned in the comics, and he also had a shapeshifter called Changeling take his place so that when he appeared to die, it wasn't really him. That particular metamorph could also replicate powers, so it really did appear to be Xavier.

As for the movies, the scenario wasn't that well handled. Exploding into bits didn't look very good; it would have been better with some sort of Phoenix effect and bright white light, a hint of astral plane... etc... something a bit more thoughtful, respectful, cinematic...

As for why he can't move his legs, we have to assume that the braindead twin had severe muscle wasting from lying there in a coma for 60 years... or that Xavier's mind somehow carried over the physical limitations he had at the time of death... or something. But it was all so difficult to explain without sounding eye-rollingly hokey that they just decided not to bother.

 

[Danbito]

Xavier has been cloned in the comics, and he also had a shapeshifter called Changeling take his place so that when he appeared to die, it wasn't really him. That particular metamorph could also replicate powers, so it really did appear to be Xavier.

As for the movies, the scenario wasn't that well handled. Exploding into bits didn't look very good; it would have been better with some sort of Phoenix effect and bright white light, a hint of astral plane... etc... something a bit more thoughtful, respectful, cinematic...

As for why he can't move his legs, we have to assume that the braindead twin had severe muscle wasting from lying there in a coma for 60 years... or that Xavier's mind somehow carried over the physical limitations he had at the time of death... or something. But it was all so difficult to explain without sounding eye-rollingly hokey that they just decided not to bother.

See with the movies aspect? Very difficult to execute on screen. The comics had 'cloning' concept happening better and more frequently. Aside from those Xavier examples, there's also the Jean/Madelyne Pryor

 

[X-Maniac]

See with the movies aspect? Very difficult to execute on screen. The comics had 'cloning' concept happening better and more frequently. Aside from those Xavier examples, there's also the Jean/Madelyne Pryor

I honestly don't think you can expect cloning to appear, apart from Multiple Man's powers.

It would be too much of an issue when anybody died. 'But can't they just clone them as well?', the audience would be asking.

Limitations have to be imposed.

 

[jaymes_e06]

And that's the problem. This is why certain characters end up being mistreated, and sometimes even being used twice or more in different versions (Emma, Trask, Psylocke, Jubilee, Angel, etc). At times it looks like they don't know what they are doing. And a lot of times it looks like they don't know the material.

If they immersed themselves in the source material (ie read the comics properly), they'd get a true sense of the characters' place in the overall mythology - the characterisations, relationships, power usages.

Anyone making these films should read the X-Men comics. Not just the ones relating to the story they are adapting, but the whole lot - as many as possible from the very beginning. Then they'd get a real sense of the X-Men and who matters and why.

Your being a little impractical. Do you think that that happens with most of the Marvel films? Should the sound team read the comics the boom guy. No one's ever going to do a page for page adaption as it has never been done before ever with any cbm.

Do I want more effort? Yes but within reason.

 

[X-Maniac]

Your being a little impractical. Do you think that that happens with most of the Marvel films? Should the sound team read the comics the boom guy. No one's ever going to do a page for page adaption as it has never been done before ever with any cbm.

Do I want more effort? Yes but within reason.

I think the writers, at least, should read all the comics. The books do form an overall saga, a mythology. Once they've immersed themselves in that, a deeper understanding of how characters/stories fit together will follow.

I'd never attempt to write a Harry Potter script without reading all the books.

And, even though they are not a single book series like Potter, the same sort of thinking should apply to X-Men.

I'd say the original 1960s X-Men and the next team of X-Men from Second Genesis through the Phoenix Saga up to the 90s relaunch are pretty much essential reading. Ultimate X-Men are interesting modernised takes on the material but not as essential.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Honestly I just want FoX to hire former X-Men Comic book artist to draw the new uniforms for the next film. And hire like the top costume assistant from BvS & AoU to turn their designs into real costumes.

 

[kevork89]

Bryan, Simon and co are very aware of the world and have indeed read the comics and backstory of all the characters. Fox and their time periods and placement of characters is an indication that originally they didn't have a plan when it came to this big world they have. Until First Class they were just making them as they go. And then First Class on they had to attempt to rectify the problems occurred mainly due to Last Stand and Origins. Even though First Class actually caused even more problems. Fox is trying still to fix with they've done and they are slowly with expanding the X-Men universe. I highly doubt people are just making these movies without any knowledge of the source material. Come on give them more credit then that.

They have changed characters, back stories etc but of course they'll do that. Not everything has to be like the comics.

 

[X-Maniac]

Bryan, Simon and co are very aware of the world and have indeed read the comics and backstory of all the characters. Fox and their time periods and placement of characters is an indication that originally they didn't have a plan when it came to this big world they have. Until First Class they were just making them as they go. And then First Class on they had to attempt to rectify the problems occurred mainly due to Last Stand and Origins. Even though First Class actually caused even more problems. Fox is trying still to fix with they've done and they are slowly with expanding the X-Men universe. I highly doubt people are just making these movies without any knowledge of the source material. Come on give them more credit then that.

They have changed characters, back stories etc but of course they'll do that. Not everything has to be like the comics.

I'm pushing them to try harder. Some characters/relationships/stories have been mishandled. Emma Frost being a prime example.

They seem to have limited knowledge of the comics at times - and it would help them and help the films if they had greater knowledge. No harm would come from knowing MORE about the source material.

I know that changes happen (as with the Disney/Marvel and Warner/DC adaptations too). But immersing oneself in the original material can never be a bad thing, especially if it prevents head-scratching decisions making their way into the movies.

 

[kevork89]

I know what you're saying. I think they're definitely doing that now. Prior to DoFP they were just winging it but I think they know that people aren't stupid and they need to pull more comic accuracy for the fans. Which is why I'm looking forward to seeing Cyclops and Jean development in this. Their relationship was kind of non existent in the original trilogy.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Prior to DoFP they were just winging it but I think they know that people aren't stupid and they need to pull more comic accuracy for the fans.

They may go slightly more accurate but i think there will always be liberties taken with this series

 

[kevork89]

They may go slightly more accurate but i think there will always be liberties taken with this series

For sure but it doesn't bother me as much as some other people. For example the relationship between Charles and Raven. I love what they've done with them in the movies.

 

[Ryan1210]