X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - Part 1

Discussion in 'X-Men: Dark Phoenix' started by Thread Manager, Jul 17, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JEM Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,024
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't say that at all. I would be ok if the next trilogy focus on a small team X-Men like Cyclop, Jean, Storm, Kurt and Beast ( i forgot him :csad:). Though, ad Jubilee, Dawzler could be interessing.

    I prefer to see Psylocke in X-Force and i have no rush to see Kitty, Rogue or Iceman in a X-Men movie. In fact, i would like to see them in a spinoff or tv show.
    So yeah, i have no problem to focus on small X-Men team if other characters are developed in other team. However, we could see a new timetravel crossover soon with Cable. Who know.

    Whatever, do you think we will see Gladiator ? It ' s hard to image Shiar Empire without him.
     
    #976 JEM, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  2. SumT Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,356
    Likes Received:
    946
    typical Fox/Kinberg fashion.
    Its really sad to see all these cool secondary x-men get introduced movie after movie just to say 3 lines. Is Fox really that uncapable of doing better than this?

    why, instead of introducing 10 secondary mutants in 2-4 years, they dont introduce just 4 and explore them in three sequels back to back, giving them a better treatment?

    Marvel keeps adding characters like Falcon, Winter soldier, Antman, Wasp and they keep them to continue on the franchise so the audience gets more familiar with them, and they shine in the little moments they keep getting movie after movie, even if they arent leads, but the audience and fans get that family vibe, the team factor.

    Cant Fox really do the same with Psylocke, Angel, Jubilee, Havok, Bishop and co? is it that that hard?
     
  3. kineticist Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    29
    Nina Lauren is listed as Dark Phoenix's stunt double on imdb which is interesting because she was Mystique's double in Apocalypse. I assumed Holly Raczynski would be Jean's double because of the red hair but maybe she is Lilandra's?
     
  4. marvelrobbins Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    18,411
    Likes Received:
    6
    here is thing.people moan about them having such and such with only a few lines and then want them to include flood of x-men in film.

    i am pretty sure we will see X-men have to seek help from magneto and acolytes with sh'iar attacking.this is likely how magneto remains a "hero"
    without becoming part of x-men and lilandra is villain of film untill jean in 3rd act finally loses it and then it becomes trying to bring her back from edge and saving people from phoenix.

    having x-men be xavier and his team of jean,cyclops,beast,storm,and nightcrawler works well when you also have to have magneto and his acolytes/right hands of mystique,quicksilver,toad,ink,possibly psylocke and sunfire and them facing lilandra and her impearial guard.now acoyltes and imperial guard often are sure to have characters there not speaking much.with x-men you often want mutant vs utant or mutant vs ailens or sententles.
     
  5. Sithborg Oooh, plot twist!

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    Messages:
    26,772
    Likes Received:
    11,042
    The issue with that, especially the ones you listed, is that they are introduced in solo movies. And fleshed out in solo movies. The better comparison would be introducing more characters in the Avengers movies. And I would say, based on AoU and Civil War, Marvel isn't better at introducing characters in team movies than Fox.
     
  6. SumT Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,356
    Likes Received:
    946
    well, to me Wanda and Pietro had a better treatment in AoU than Angel and Psylocke in Apocalypse.

    Same with Vision work to date. He has been apart of the team, unlike Havok, that never worked side by side with Cyclops, Jean and co. This feels wrong in all levels to me.
     
  7. Frankeh Registered

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    4,448
    Likes Received:
    929
    Correct.
     
  8. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    Comparing mutants in the XCU to Superheroes in the MCU is unproductive imo. X-men movies have to create the impression that mutants are a legitimate population, which means a lot of characters get in these movies just to be a mutant to fill the world. The MCU has to explain the origins and reasons for each of their characters or else their world building falls apart. Fox has two options: they can either create all new characters for these minor roles or use pre-existing characters to nod to the fans.

    This isn't the same as defending Psylocke and Angel in Apocalypse. There really is no defence since the characters they chose to waste as horsemen have rich histories and complex relationships. Fox did it right in DOFP but botched Apocalypse.
     
  9. SumT Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,356
    Likes Received:
    946
    you made a point. and you made another point in the last sentence too.

    Its fine if they use D-, E- or F-list characters from the comics to show the mutant world, but when it comes to classic X-Men, either A-list or B-list, but X-men regardless, they have to do better than just as cameos. I mean, its fine if they introduce someone as a cameo and gets expanded in the sequel. But if they stay as mostly cameos or action roles, then there is a big problem.

    The solution, to me, is pretty simple: each new x-men that gets introduced, ends on the mansion at some point in the movie, either in the beggining of the movie or at the end, and...... they stay there, becoming apart of the family and a team member in the next sequel. Thats how it was done in the original trilogy and it worked perfectly, the team kept growing. Some members can go somewhere someday, back to their homes, to see their family.... but they stay alive and still a X-member. They could say in some movies "this character went to this place for that reason", if needed, but they return in the sequel. Fans would appreciate/understand this approach once its established.

    But to keep introducing x-men, killing them, cutting them or leaving them alone at the end of the movie, that isnt working. It doesnt build hype and good word or mouth, it kills it a bit with each movie. And to me this is what has been happening with this franchise, the hype keeps dying slowly, since X3, and with the exception of Dofp, because it was an all star movie with a lot of returning actors. That sells and works. Killing and cutting doesnt.
     
  10. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    I'm not saying Fox killed and cut the right characters, but creating a world filled with mutants poses different challenges than the MCU.

    Fox is wildly inconsistent. The goodwill they make with a character like Quicksilver is undercut by Psylocke for example. Fox needs to be better and selecting which mutants are one-off and exposable and which characters should be respected. This isn't an easy task for a 40 year old franchise that has a fan base for almost 300 characters lol.
     
  11. GuestStar2004 Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Messages:
    22,223
    Likes Received:
    582
    Honestly i think the way they do these movies is to make each one as if its the last.

    I doubt there is a regular long term plan to allow for 50 X-Men while half take break each movie to allow certain ones to get part of an episodic story.
     
    #986 GuestStar2004, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  12. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    I loved Logan because it got to play with continuity. It existed in its own bubble to tell the best story it could, and it's one of the best in the genre. I wish every movie could be like that. If Emma showed up in the next one played by a different actress because she figured into a great interpretation of the character and served the story, I'd be thrilled for example. Fans would lose it though.
     
    #987 Mad Ones, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  13. marvelrobbins Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    18,411
    Likes Received:
    6
    it's very bad idea to compare x-men to avengers and justice league.as much as some don't want to hear it much of x-men were introduced in main x-men
    titles and that is where most of their stories are.with avengers they are coming from solo books or solo films before becoming part of team.

    With justice league superman himself looks to get a bit short end of stick

    now your free to hate apocalypse but it was loosly based on fall of the mutants.in 616,and both the 1990's and evolution animated show horseman didn't get much devolpment except for angel.for films the equilvent was magneto since he was character people know.angel and psylocke were time travled rebooted and apocalypse was introuduction of storm in this timeline.
    how horseman were done was totaly predicable if people payed attention.
    Once magneto was confirmed as horseman we all knew how things were going to go.

    X-men cinematic universe is whole different beast than eather mcu or dceu.
     
  14. SumT Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,356
    Likes Received:
    946
    totally missing the point, it seems.

    if other franchises, whatever the genre, can develop the supporting cast, Fox can too. period.
     
  15. TheComicbookKid Swing n Miss

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Messages:
    12,624
    Likes Received:
    115
    But how many supporting characters are worth it?

    I mean, some people will act like Domino is on the same level as Magneto just because she's on a version of team they liked in the 90s.
     
  16. JP Smelly

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Messages:
    60,422
    Likes Received:
    270

    She doubled for Jenn and Sophie on XMA.
     
  17. Frankeh Registered

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    4,448
    Likes Received:
    929
    Warren Worthington, Colossus, Psylocke, Emma Frost certainly. Those are classic X-Men characters. Jubilee is put in the movies because she is hugely popular for the 90's show and yet they don't seem to capitalize at all on it because she has blink and you'll miss it cameos.

    Forget about what Avengers do or don't do, taking X-Men movies on their own I would expect better regardless. But this is a tired subject on here anyways, the same criticisms get the same excuses.

    Back on topic, I'm getting worried by the lack of Imperial Guard castings so far. Everything seems to skew towards Acolytes.
     
  18. psyonic X-Man

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,380
    Likes Received:
    122
    Sharon Carter had better treatment.. Tony's robot helper had better treatment.. Nick Fury's car that was completely smashed to **** had better treatment..
     
  19. Lip Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    4,048
    Likes Received:
    1,810
    We can use Deadpool as an example. Look at Angel Dust. If they need characters to just waste, take from a z-list.

    And it's worth mentioning that Angel Dust had a much, much, much better treatment than more than 50% of the A-list and B-list that they used over the years.
     
  20. SAUspartan Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2013
    Messages:
    816
    Likes Received:
    2
  21. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    I agree, obviously. Fox needs to do a better job figuring out which characters from the comics are leading, supporting, and filler for the stories they are telling. Sometimes they do it right, and sometimes they do it really wrong.
     
  22. Phoenix Egg Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    The characters and their appearances in the X-Men movies have been fine, really. Except Rogue. They really got her wrong.

    Other than Rogue, and not really giving Storm room to stand out, things have been pretty good to great.
     
  23. Mad Ones Bebe le Strange

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    Wasting Angel and Psylocke in a movie about Apocalypse was pretty bad.

    A twenty minute episode of Wolverine and the X-men did a better job developing Warren.
     
  24. Frankeh Registered

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    4,448
    Likes Received:
    929
    Angel is an original five X-Man. There's no excuse to not treat him as an important character.

    Like, I understand introducing him in a supporting role, but at least save him a spot for something big down the line, give him a character arc, give him a personality, something memorable. Blah. Two times wasted and no sign of returning.
     
  25. Phoenix Egg Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    Angel and Psylocke should have absolutely been in an Apocalypse movie, given both distant and recent history.

    That said, their introductions were not amazing, but they are there if the powers that be ever want or need to focus on them.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"