Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Frankeh]

The Cure conflict, Morlocks, Rogue’s issue with her powers, the Iceman vs Pryor rivalry, Angel’s daddy issues, Wolverine’s romance with Jean took up over 87.5% of that film’s plot. I’m not even making that number up. So it’s repeating a beat from X3. lol

The trailer for Dark Phoenix showcases Xavier taking Jean in as a kid, some drama over what Xavier did to Jean, Jean leaving the X-Men to go with Magneto, a standoff in Jean's house. I mean... it's pretty simple.

So going by what the trailer shows, yes it's reasonable for people to relate the two. And the trailer is what they chose to put out to give people the idea of the movie. So if anything you should be directing your criticisms at them for not showing how much different (supposedly) this movie is.

 

[EnDz0n3]

You're surely right about that. Audiences are definetely much less affected by bad or mediocre reviews in family movies and animated features than probably any other kind of film. I do however think that sequels can be more affected by lukewarm reception. That's why I think Pets 2 is going to drop considerably. It will still probably make lots of money and surely more than Dark Phoenix. It will certainly have better legs. I still wouldn't completely rule out a better opening weekend for the X flick though. It's not likely but it's not impossible.

I think people overestimate Pets 2, a bit like FOX overestimated Nutcracker. There are quite a few animated franchises that started big and took a dive with the next movie(s) in the worldwide box office.

And it's interesting you would mention Maleficent because it indeed had a glorious run in the box office. But I believe the sequel is similarly going to make far less money. Probably a bit similar to Alice Through the Looking Glass that I referenced earlier. It's all speculation obviously but I'm curious to see how it all turns out.

I don't disagree with any of that. I do think it'll be hard for Pets 2 to replicate the first one's success.

But at the end of the day, $104Million is $104Million.

Point is, Fox had a good release date on November 2, 2018 and February 14, 2019. Two release dates which they have now brushed off as untenable.
The first they abandoned because The Nutcracker is a "four-quadrant" movie and they saw February as a strong release date because of Deadpool + Black Panther.
Which they then abandoned because some social media starlet from China told her followers to go watch their trailer.

And now they're back to summer, where they will be fighting off bigger movies than The Nutcracker.

At some point people have got to stop believing the BS that comes out of SK's mouth.

 

[Frankeh]

Is The Nutcracker a flop?

 

[Hand Banana]

The first they abandoned because The Nutcracker is a "four-quadrant" movie and they saw February as a strong release date because of Deadpool + Black Panther.

I don’t remember that being the reason they gave. It for the reshoots, iirc.

 

[Filmfreak]

At some point people have got to stop believing the BS that comes out of SK's mouth.

Yeah I remember him saying that the studio thinks the movie has a better chance in China and other countries outside the US in the summer, especially after some trailer views. And obviously that Alita played a huge part in the move too. Whether that comes to be true or not and despite a total lack of proper scheduling and planning on their part I do believe he's probably honest about their reasoning behind it. What do you think the constant delays are all about?

 

[Hand Banana]

For a Fox X-men movie to do well at the boxoffice and have exceptional legs, it has to do everything right, unfortunately. Venom, Suicide Squad (and probably Aquaman) are IPs whose fans have been salivating at the thought of seeing their faves on the screen.

Venom was not the first time the title character was seen on screen(Spider-Man 3) and fans weren’t really hyped for the film since it had no connection to Spider-Man. In fact, there was massive fan backlash over that. Comic fans don’t even make up a major percentage of ticket sells. It’s success was the result of marketing and word of mouth from audiences.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I don’t remember that being the reason they gave. It for the reshoots, iirc.

The Hollywood Reporter:
One insider says Kinberg and the studio had been looking to move Dark Phoenix for some time as the Nov. 2 date had the movie going up against Nutcracker and the Four Realms, Disney’s own four-quadrant tentpole that hopes to play into the hands of the Christmas holiday crowd (and which hit some production snags of its own).

Yeah I remember him saying that the studio thinks the movie has a better chance in China and other countries outside the US in the summer, especially after some trailer views. And obviously that Alita played a huge part in the move too.

The movie has already been delayed once due to Kinberg's inability to properly schedule reshoots. You don't think a second delay isn't his fault?

I'm sorry that just sounds like it's coming from the Kinberg playbook of things being out of his control. It's always everyone else's fault. This is why we're here. This guy is on his umteenth chance, because the previous 3 times his work sucked was everyone else's fault *but* his own.

Whether that comes to be true or not and despite a total lack of proper scheduling and planning on their part I do believe he's probably honest about their reasoning behind it. What do you think the constant delays are all about?

First time director doesn't know how to do stuff.

Yes, Kinberg supposedly saved $10Mil from principal photography but that's from a director/producer that shot his own script; a script and movie the test audiences told them was not very good. Any one of us here from these boards could probably direct our own script and show up on June 28th, 2017 to MEL's studio in Montreal and save the studio $60Mil off of their budget, none of that means anything.

 

[Hand Banana]

Ah, so it was has insider who said that.

 

[psylockolussus]

Lmao, Kinberg is master of the pr spins. If only he is good at it as his scriptwriting skills.

 

[Nintendo]

A couple things. In Fox's fairness, anyone would probably assume a Disney 4-quadrant film would be a big money maker. Also due to the reshoots it seems November would have been rushing the film. I thought Valentines Day, given the probable romantic craziness going on between Jean/Phoenix and Scott in the film, and the lack of huge competition, made the date perfect. So I don't buy the current PR really and I think it was a bad move even if it was to get more Imax screens, which seems unlikely to me, but who knows.

 

[Jh7058622]

The trailer for Dark Phoenix showcases Xavier taking Jean in as a kid, some drama over what Xavier did to Jean, Jean leaving the X-Men to go with Magneto, a standoff in Jean's house. I mean... it's pretty simple.

So going by what the trailer shows, yes it's reasonable for people to relate the two. And the trailer is what they chose to put out to give people the idea of the movie. So if anything you should be directing your criticisms at them for not showing how much different (supposedly) this movie is.

Have you ever read TDPS before because all those story beats are present except instead of Magneto it is Mastermind & Sebastian Shaw?

 

[psylockolussus]

They are delaying it for other reason/s either
A. They have a bad movie that really needed reshoots and more time to improve it;
B. Disney have taken over and is burying the film;
C. Fox being Fox screwing themselves along with the ip.

 

[Filmfreak]

I don't know how this movie will do in terms of box office and if the June date is going to end up hurting it or not. We can't deny though that the latest date swifts are favourable towards the other movies that were affected. December is a severely packed month and any movie would have probably struggled there. Moving Bohemian Rhapsody in the original Dark Phoenix date has already been proven to help the former a lot since it is currently doing really well in numbers. Alita may do ok or flop big time but it's almost a given that it's going to flop less than that December date when it was originally programmed to open. And at the same time that gives them the opportunity to use Christmas for a little bit of extra money with Deadpool 2 PG-13, which obviously is a huge cash grab.

Now, I don't know the real reason for delaying DP and I'm not taking for granted anything Kinberg says but if that was indeed the reason it seems that it does favor at least three out of four movies. Thus I do find it an overall smart business move and a better scheduling than the previous one. I do however agree that DP would probably be better with either one of those previous dates they were planning and it is frustrating that their scheduling is always so wobbly.

 

[psylockolussus]

It won't do well in the summer. Apocalypse had a smaller competition than dofp (Godzilla/Maleficent) yet it underperformed. 747.9 million to 543.9million worldwide and Apocalypse had bigger China numbers, IMAXand 3d tickets and of course price inflation. Yet it earned 200 million less. Aladdin, Secret Life 2, Lion King, Godzilla 2, Toy Story 4, Men in Black... there's a lot of films neXt summer that would definitely outshine Dark Phoenix and Dark Phoenix is a sequel to a bad film, part of the series that is about to end abruptly and feature the least marketable cast in the series. Bad reviews in the opening weekend would be a big factor as well in its underperformance.

And Bohemian Rhapsody maybe had a better shot this month compare to next month and Alita would have been buried in December. But it's obvious to see that they are willing to move Dark Phoenix just so their other films would get a better release date. While Dark Phoenix gets moved to a busy summer season in which it would probably get buried by other blockbusters.

 

[Hand Banana]

Alita: Battle of Angels taking Dark Phoneix’s spot was expected by bloggers since early this year.

Dark Phoenix is a sequel to a bad film

Spin-off according to Kinberg hence no X-Men in the title. Like Captain America: Civil War was to Avengers: Age of Ultron.

 

[Nintendo]

Other than the date changes and a few rumors, I have no reason to believe this film is going to be bad. The teaser looked quite good both from an acting and from a visual standpoint. The footage at comic con was received very well, and was a few journalists favorite footage seen at the event. It was like 13 minutes of concurrent footage and it got rave reviews. I understand the criticisms from X-Men comics fans on here, but I expect the movie to be a pretty good finale for this series for pretty much everyone else.

 

[x-er]

My personal contention is that the X-Men are supposed to be superheroes (which they're not in these films) representing the underdogs and minorities. After Days of Future Past, we've seen a bunch of actors with pretend superpowers arguing with each other disconnected from the rest of world (hardly classifiable as superheroes and little to no social themes as far as mutantkind and humanity go), a lot of white-washed characters with no traces of their national origins, blue characters are going white now (Beast and Mystique) and we're getting less of Storm and Nightcrawler. We've seen nothing of the Southern characters we've been waiting to see for over a decade now and forget about the first adaptation of a gay superhero like Northstar!!!

We need diverse superheroes and good writing. The issue is the way they're representing the X-Men. That's it in a nutshell.

 

[Hand Banana]

My personal contention is that the X-Men are supposed to be superheroes (which they're not in these films) representing the underdogs and minorities. After Days of Future Past, we've seen a bunch of actors with pretend superpowers arguing with each other disconnected from the rest of world (hardly classifiable as superheroes and little to no social themes as far as mutantkind and humanity go), a lot of white-washed characters with no traces of their national origins, blue characters are going white now (Beast and Mystique) and we're getting less of Storm and Nightcrawler. We've seen nothing of the Southern characters we've been waiting to see for over a decade now and forget about the first adaptation of a gay superhero like Northstar!!!

We need diverse superheroes and good writing. The issue is the way they're representing the X-Men. That's it in a nutshell.

The X-Men have depicted as superheroes in recent films. The Deadpool films, Logan, and this film.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Footages shown to a select few almost always get good reviews. People are almost always grateful to see exclusive content. Google "X-men Origins Wolverine SDCC" and listen to people lose their s*** at San Diego.

I've always said Kinberg (or any director) has the easy task of getting audiences excited. Show the Dark Phoenix raptor. Show colourful costumes.

The X-Men have depicted as superheroes in recent films. The Deadpool films, Logan, and this film.

Show, don't tell.

One X-man was a superhero in Deadpool and that was Colossus. Two trainees(!) The X-men were holed up in the mansion in a blink-or-you'll-miss it cameo where Cyclops and Storm were shoved all in the way in the back. X-Force was killed off in a gag.
And in Logan? You mean where Xavier killed his X-men? Or did you mean the comics within the movie where Logan corrects Laura and tells her it wasn't even like that?

I'll give you the first 13 minutes of Dark Phoenix. But

Spoiler

we know Beast will switch sides. Jean Grey probably kills. Raven Xavier probably dies. Charles Xavier is once again in the wrong. Who tf knows what's happening with Storm and Kurt.

 

[Hand Banana]

Footages shown to a select few almost always get good reviews. People are almost always grateful to see exclusive content. Google "X-men Origins Wolverine SDCC" and listen to people lose their s*** at San Diego.

I've always said Kinberg (or any director) has the easy task of getting audiences excited. Show the Dark Phoenix raptor. Show colourful costumes.

I found a YouTube video that showed a trailer. Wasn’t a significant amount of footage like what was shown in NYCC.

And in Logan? You mean where Xavier killed his X-men? Or did you mean the comics within the movie where Logan corrects Laura and tells her it wasn't even like that?

The X-Men were viewed as heroes with a fan base and they had merchandise beyond comics.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I found a YouTube that showed a trailer. Wasn’t a significant amount of footage like what was shown in NYCC.

Huh? X-men Origins Wolverine not Dark Phoenix...

The X-Men were viewed as heroes with a fan base and they had merchandise beyond comics.

Like I said show, don't tell. The X-men superheroing within the 10 year gaps between movies doesn't count. The X-men superheroing between the five years (?) of the end of DOFP and the beginning of Logan doesn't count.

Let's see how much superheroing the "X-men" did in their movies:

The term "X-men" is coined by Moira at the end of First Class.

There was no "X-men" to speak of in DOFP, ask Singer. As far as the world is concerned Mystique saved the POTUS. Not Xavier, nor Beast nor Wolverine nor Quicksilver.

In Apocalypse they're in their paintball costumes they stole from Styrker's Alkali base. That movie was supposedly the "true birth of the X-men," ask Singer. Yea Raven Xavier said she and her young cohorts in the CIA building called themselves X-men in First Class but we know that's a lie. In the closing seconds of the film she finally tells them "you're not students anymore, you're X-men" in a Danger Room training sequence in the comfort of Xavier's home. As far as the world is concerned Magneto defeated Apocalypse, ask the TV reporter.

 

[Hand Banana]

Huh? X-men Origins Wolverine not Dark Phoenix...

I mean, I found a trailer for Origins shown at SDCC. It’s not like the 15 minute footage of Dark Phoenix that was shown.

 

[EnDz0n3]

A couple things. In Fox's fairness, anyone would probably assume a Disney 4-quadrant film would be a big money maker.

Yea remember when Fox delayed X-men: Apocalypse because they were afraid they were going to struggle against the Disney 4-quadrant movie Alice Through the Looking Glass?

I don't.

Also due to the reshoots it seems November would have been rushing the film. I thought Valentines Day, given the probable romantic craziness going on between Jean/Phoenix and Scott in the film, and the lack of huge competition, made the date perfect. So I don't buy the current PR really and I think it was a bad move even if it was to get more Imax screens, which seems unlikely to me, but who knows.

Buried in the article that mentioned the 44 Million views for the DP trailer is the supposed fact that the February Dark Phoenix date was bad for China and they moved it there anyways and said at the time it was the right call. Kinberg and Fox clearly don't know what they're doing and making up excuses for Kinberg's ineptitude as they go along.

 

[Davidstorm]

Fox Film has announced the attractions and talents that will come to the Comic-Con Experience in São Paulo (brasil). Sophie Turner, Jessica Chastain and director Simon Kinberg attend the panel on Friday, December 7.

 

[Hand Banana]

Kinberg and Fox clearly don't know what they're doing and making up excuses for Kinberg's ineptitude as they go along.

Or rather an excuse for them to have Alita take its spot, which people have been predicting for months. They want a franchise out of that movie after all. There is no mentioning or reports of further reshoots for Dark Phoenix as far as I know. If any case it seems like they are sacrificing Dark Phoenix because it’s a franchise they are not going to have for long. Which isn’t an indication of its quality.