Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

We're now getting a second go at the Dark Phoenix story, a sure indication the franchise is running out of steam if it's repeating stuff.

Like the second go at Deadpool’s origin?

And even the Dark Phoenix story is rather dated now - an unstable woman who can't cope with her powers

It’s not her power though, but a cosmic entity.
 
Last edited:
Like the second go at Deadpool’s origin?

It’s not her power though, but a cosmic entity.


It's a miracle Deadpool was ever released. The Origins version of the character, and the budget cuts etc for the Deadpool solo outing, hardly indicate a studio in touch with the source material or the fanbase. Then, of course, we had clear studio interference with the sequel once it had been a success. At least Ryan has commitment to the role though, that's a good thing.

As for Phoenix, well there are still doubts about doing the entire saga in one movie. These 10-year jumps haven't done us many favours, I find myself imagining what's been going on during the preceding decade.
 
Then people are going to be super confused ! I’m not talking about us movie nerds..the general public.i wonder just bring back mcavoy and then surround himself with other x-men characters that haven’t been seen before, no magneto and just start a whole new continuity with just proffessor x and new x-men characters

The GA coped perfectly well with three Spider-Mans as we went from Tobey Maguire to Andrew Garfield to Tom Holland. And I think Tom Holland is the best version of the character yet, even though they've skipped past the origin story this time and avoided too much duplication of what was done with the other versions .

The GA also coped with three Hulks as we went from Eric Bana to Ed Norton to Mark Ruffalo. And I think Ruffalo's Hulk is the best yet.

So I think the audience will be perfectly okay with another set of X-Men. Especially if we don't get a new Xavier, Magneto, Mystique or Wolverine straight away.
 
Like the second go at Deadpool’s origin?

appels and oranges.

Deadpool didnt even looked like deadpool and most people from general audience probably didnt learn his name in Origins, or didnt watch the movie for the matter lol.

Jean on other hand... well... its been there done that. another team movie addapting Phoenix, with Charles and Magneto trying to control her, and the xmen in the middle. This has already been done, and that x3 movie left a very very bad taste, so its not a good look, and even less with a teaser looking too similar to that movie.

Deadpool 1 felt like a whoooooooooole different movie from Origins, and even from the whole franchise lol. Almost felt like a movie from any other studio or creative team (in fact it was a new creative team, unlike Dark phoenix, with the same writer as x3, another bad sign).
 
Deadpool was a supporting part in a Wolverine movie.

Not comparable to a previous X-Men movie with the same plot.
 
not to mention that Deadpool (2016) was a spinoff, a NEW character gettting his first movie, with a whole new cast and fresh characters.

Dark phoenix is a sequel to 3 previous movies, with the previous one having poor ratings and numbers.

Deadpool 1 felt fresh and new in terms of marketing, the total opposite of Dark phoenix. Fox isnt offering anything new with this movie, its another x-men movie with the same cast, and same villain (Phoenix). To compare this to Deadpool 1, that had a comic accurate looking costume, Colossus, Negasonic looking awesome, humour, cool action, more adult, R-rated... everything felt new.

nothing that Fox/Kinberg have showed to date feels new, so? how can Fox or some fans expect the general audience to get the same interest as with Deadpool 1? its almost impossible, lol. Not with the marketing/approach so far.
 
appels and oranges.

Deadpool didnt even looked like deadpool and most people from general audience probably didnt learn his name in Origins, or didnt watch the movie for the matter lol.

He’s literally called “the Deadpool” in the movie by Stryker as many times as Jean is referred to as Phoenix, which is once or twice. And you’re really reaching by saying most of the general audiences didn’t watch the movie. You mind as well say the same thing about X3.

Jean on other hand... well... its been there done that. another team movie addapting Phoenix, with Charles and Magneto trying to control her, and the xmen in the middle. This has already been done, and that x3 movie left a very very bad taste, so its not a good look, and even less with a teaser looking too similar to that movie.

What are you talking about? Now you’re imagining things. Xavier didn’t put psychic blocks on Jean as shown in Apocalypse. Magneto thinks that Jean is evil and needs to be put down. Or do you seriously believe him and Hank are not teaming-up over Mystique’s death?

And X3 left a bad taste in people’s mouths? Only in the context of comic fans. X3 is not rated poorly on any review site. It almost has fresh on Rotten Tomatoes with a 58% approval rating, meaning the majority of critics liked it. Origins on the other hand...

Deadpool 1 felt like a whoooooooooole different movie from Origins, and even from the whole franchise lol. Almost felt like a movie from any other studio or creative team (in fact it was a new creative team, unlike Dark phoenix, with the same writer as x3, another bad sign).

Yeah, and one of the reasons is because Wade was not an underdeveloped final boss like he was Origins. Which was sadly the fate Jean also faced in X3.

Deadpool was a supporting part in a Wolverine movie.

Not comparable to a previous X-Men movie with the same plot.

There was a cosmic entity from space that habited Jean and influenced her behavior with aliens trying to manipulate her in X3? Really? I thought the plot was about stopping Magneto from destroying the mutant cure. /s

But seriously, that’s like saying Venom had the same plot as Spider-Man 3. And Venom was more utilized in Spider-Man 3 than Jean was in X3 and that’s saying something.
 
Last edited:
He’s literally called “the Deadpool” in the movie by Stryker as many times as Jean is referred to as Phoenix, which is once or twice. And you’re really reaching by saying most of the general audiences didn’t watch the movie. You mind as well say the same thing about X3.



What are you talking about? Now you’re imagining things. Xavier didn’t put psychic blocks on Jean as shown in Apocalypse. Magneto thinks that Jean is evil and needs to be put down. Or do you seriously believe him and Hank are not teaming-up over Mystique’s death?

And X3 left a bad taste in people’s mouths? Only in the context of comic fans. X3 is not rated poorly on any review site. It almost has fresh on Rotten Tomatoes with a 58% approval rating, meaning the majority of critics liked it. Origins on the other hand...



Yeah, and one of the reasons is because Wade an underdeveloped final boss like he was Origins. Which was sadly the fate Jean also faced in X3.



There was cosmic entity from space that habited Jean and influenced her behavior with aliens trying to manipulate her in X3? Really? I thought the plot was about stopping Magneto from destroying the mutant cure. /s

But seriously, that’s like saying Venom had the same plot as Spider-Man 3. And Venom was more utilized in Spider-Man 3 than Jean was in X3 and that’s saying something.

I agree regarding Xavier and Magentos relationship wiht Jean in this film.

In X3 they were both trying to control her. Xavier was putting mental blocks on her because he felt she could control her power on her own. While a Magneto took on the "Hellfire role" and was using her purely as a weapon.

Following DoFP and what we know of this film:

- Macvoys Xavier has encouraged Jean to embrace her power. In DoFP he looked into Logan's mind and saw what would a happen to Jean if he contained her power. He actively tells her to embrace her power in Apocalypse. And based on the description of the first 15mins of Dark P it sounds like he is doing it to a negative effect and putting Jean at risk during the space mission.

- Magneto is clearly an antagonist to Jean. He likley gives her shelter in Genoshia and she turns on him and destroys his dream and innocents mutants lives. It clear he is willing to kill Jean for the greater good, something the xmen will be unable to do.
Chastain has clearly taken on the "hell fire role" in the manipulation of Jean for her power.
 
And X3 left a bad taste in people’s mouths? Only in the context of comic fans. X3 is not rated poorly on any review site. It almost has fresh on Rotten Tomatoes with a 58% approval rating, meaning the majority of critics liked it. Origins on the other hand...

You might want to take that up with Kinberg and the very reason he wants to redo Dark Phoenix LOL
 
I hate Kinberg's stupid comment on DP being grounded and also being inspired by Thor Ragnarok.. which was not grounded at all. Which is it? DP should be anything but grounded.
 
You might want to take that up with Kinberg and the very reason he wants to redo Dark Phoenix LOL

You mean this?

I mean, I felt bad bashing The Last Stand because mainstream audiences, if not fan audiences, liked it. There’s a lot of things that worked in it. But what I regret about it is that it’s not the Dark Phoenix story. I regret that it’s the cure plot story with Dark Phoenix as a subplot and it should have been the Dark Phoenix story as the main plot of the film…I think the world perhaps wasn’t ready for a dark enough tone at that point in the cycle of superhero movies.”

Simon Kinberg Talks Dark Phoenix, and The Last Stand's Failures

I hate Kinberg's stupid comment on DP being grounded and also being inspired by Thor Ragnarok.. which was not grounded at all. Which is it? DP should be anything but grounded.

The term “grounded” has many meanings. IIRC, Kinberg called Thor 3 grounded too.
 
Last edited:
You might want to take that up with Kinberg and the very reason he wants to redo Dark Phoenix LOL
1390119331665.gif


lol.
X3 was that great, that Kinberg wants to repeat it just as well done, and hopefully gets 58% ratings too. Fingers crossed! :funny:
 
Even Kinberg said mainstream audiences like it and that he changed the timeline because he didn’t like it. So I don’t know what that “bazinga” is for.
 
Last edited:
I hate Kinberg's stupid comment on DP being grounded and also being inspired by Thor Ragnarok.. which was not grounded at all. Which is it? DP should be anything but grounded.


My interpratation "grounded" from an emotional standpoint. They will have the giant cosmic firebirds and aliens (the "Ragnarok" aspects) but the focus will very much be on the drama and character interactions.

Alternatively, I think it could be linked to the cinematography of the film. Filming it naturalistically (simailar to Logan) but still embracing the huge "Ragnaork" elements.

Overall, I think words like "grounded" and "dark" are far too overused nowadays to describe films that they lost their meaning.
 
You mean this?
I mean, I felt bad bashing The Last Stand because mainstream audiences, if not fan audiences, liked it. There’s a lot of things that worked in it. But what I regret about it is that it’s not the Dark Phoenix story. I regret that it’s the cure plot story with Dark Phoenix as a subplot and it should have been the Dark Phoenix story as the main plot of the film…I think the world perhaps wasn’t ready for a dark enough tone at that point in the cycle of superhero movies.”
Simon Kinberg Talks Dark Phoenix, and The Last Stand's Failures
I don't think that quote really helps your point tbh. If anything, it only further proves that Kinberg doesn't know what he's doing and says one thing and then tries to walk it back.
 
Last edited:
I think he wanted to do a true Dark Phoenix story at that time.
But the Fox executives at that time wanted to put all of the focus on Xavier, Erik and Wolverine.
 
I think we could ponder about this all day :p
 
"The world was not ready for a dark superhero movie then"

This is why Kinberg didnt go for a fully focused Dark Phoenix story in X3? We already had a darkish movie in X2 with a downbeat ending. What difference would the Hellfire club and ShiaR made if they were put in X3. The movie still ended with Jean being destroyed a long with Xavier and Cyclops anyway. How much darker did Kinberg want it lol
 
I don't think he was talking about it being too dark as much as the more outlandish ideas of: aliens coming to the X-Men for assistance and a secret mutant sex cult society trying to take over the world using an all powerful alien manifestation of all the psionic energy in the universe that gaurds all creation and a temporal barrier that is a gateway to all of the multiverses as a weapon.

Maybe I can see his point...
 
I don't think he was talking about it being too dark as much as the more outlandish ideas of: aliens coming to the X-Men for assistance and a secret mutant sex cult society trying to take over the world using an all powerful alien manifestation of all the psionic energy in the universe that gaurds all creation and a temporal barrier that is a gateway to all of the multiverses as a weapon.

Maybe I can see his point...

Idk, they could've dropped one group or the other and included just a cursory explanation of the Phoenix and still told the story just fine... at least in comparison to what we got

and if that's what he meant, he should've said "The world wasn't ready for a superhero-y superhero movie then" lol

He lied about that movie then, and continues to lie about it now
 
The GA coped perfectly well with three Spider-Mans as we went from Tobey Maguire to Andrew Garfield to Tom Holland. And I think Tom Holland is the best version of the character yet, even though they've skipped past the origin story this time and avoided too much duplication of what was done with the other versions .

The GA also coped with three Hulks as we went from Eric Bana to Ed Norton to Mark Ruffalo. And I think Ruffalo's Hulk is the best yet.

So I think the audience will be perfectly okay with another set of X-Men. Especially if we don't get a new Xavier, Magneto, Mystique or Wolverine straight away.

The "Amazing" Spider-Man films did worse than Raimi's original trilogy. Homecoming did pretty well but was still quite soft considering the good-will of the MCU and Iron Man behind it. There has definitely been diminishing returns. Incredible Hulk didn't really take off either, and I've seen people cite the preceding film as a reason.

Audience confusion or exhaustion is real. That said, a good film can do a lot to re-energize a brand. Even if the new X-Men gets off to a modest start, things will pick up if fans enjoy the new takes. I'm sure Homecoming and Infinity War will boost Far From Home for starters, and Ruffalo's Hulk would probably do better than its predecessors if it were made.
 
I don't think he was talking about it being too dark as much as the more outlandish ideas of: aliens coming to the X-Men for assistance and a secret mutant sex cult society trying to take over the world using an all powerful alien manifestation of all the psionic energy in the universe that gaurds all creation and a temporal barrier that is a gateway to all of the multiverses as a weapon.

Maybe I can see his point...

If thats what he really meant then he really does need to work on his choice of words. Describing something too dark = too fantastical in his book. And recently calling Ragnarok grounded when its actually fantastical. His press promos and interviews are a puzzle
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
200,507
Messages
21,742,751
Members
45,572
Latest member
vortep88
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"