Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[SumT]

I still remember everyone loving Rogue just touching Logan in the Dofp monastery, biggest and most favourite scene of all the fans and viewers from Days of future past.

Singer/Kinberg nailed it

 

[GuestStar2004]

Only Mystique is allowed to save mutantkind as a whole.

Oh. When did she do that?

 

[GuestStar2004]

I still remember everyone loving Rogue just touching Logan in the Dofp monastery, biggest and most favourite scene of all the fans and viewers from Days of future past.

Singer/Kinberg nailed it

You remember that? or are you being sarcastic again?

 

[EnDz0n3]

Oh. When did she do that?

Not sure if serious.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Not sure if serious.

Totally. when did she save mutantkind as a whole? FC? DOFP? Apocalypse? or are you talking about her saving mutants in general?

Alot of people have the misconception she saves the day in each film when really she hasn't in any of the films.

 

[Zarex]

IMHO that's not good storytelling to do it that way.

The obvious ending is Rogue goes to take the cure, leaves and goes to Alcatraz to ****ing man up and save friends and save the day. That would've brought her character full circle. She steels that kid's powers and then uses them on Magneto or Jean to help.

It also doesn't slap the character's whole background from the comics in the face.

The way I remember it via my head canon is Marie joins the group just before they take off and trashes the jumpy mutants in Magneto's initial wave of pawns. She sees Bobby and Kitty have a tender moment and decides to take her frustrations out on the big dog herself, Jean. It does not go well! Logan realizes at that point Jean's got to get got and unsheathes the claws.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Totally. when did she save mutantkind as a whole? FC? DOFP? Apocalypse? or are you talking about her saving mutants in general?

Not sure if you’re purposefully being obtuse or if you fell and bumped your head but Mystique saved mutantkind in DOFP.

Plus Apocalypse’s whole premise started with Mutants and humans living harmoniously, based on Mystique being seen as a mutant messiah.

A lot of people have the misconception she saves the day in each film when really she hasn't in any of the films.

Please stop with the lying.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Not sure if you’re purposefully being obtuse or if you fell and bumped your head but Mystique saved mutantkind in DOFP.

Plus Apocalypse’s wholes premise started with Mutants and humans living harmoniously, based on Mystique being seen as a mutant messiah..

You just created a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

She did save the day and all of mutant-kind at the end of DoFP and was heavily idolized by all of the younger mutants in Apocalypse. I was okay with the events of the former movie, but in the latter? That was just a bit ridiculous.

 

[Drexelhand]

Not sure if you’re purposefully being obtuse or if you fell and bumped your head but Mystique saved mutantkind in DOFP.

Not really, though, that was more Charles Xavier saved her and by extension, averted the bad future. It was vindicating Charles' dream over Magneto. Its just that in terms of the film's universe, everyone saw Mystique not kill Trask and shoot Magneto.

 

[fan4stic]

Huh?

The scene is her either “Yes I took the cure!” Or “No, Bobby I didn’t take the cure.” How would her schedule have affected either scene?

In the commentary, I remember the writer/director/producer or something saying that her taking the cure was the best way to justify why she didn't come and help, otherwise it made it seem like she was just goofing off or something while they were fighting.

 

[The Guard]

IMHO that's not good storytelling to do it that way.

The obvious ending is Rogue goes to take the cure, leaves and goes to Alcatraz to ****ing man up and save friends and save the day. That would've brought her character full circle. She steels that kid's powers and then uses them on Magneto or Jean to help.

It also doesn't slap the character's whole background from the comics in the face.

Obvious isn't always best, and I can't see an argument that having a character following the thematic arc she's been on since X-MEN is bad storytelling being valid.

It's not faithful to the character as she eventually exists in the comics, but it's not "bad storytelling" on its own.

The movie makes it clear that she is not choosing to do it for some boy, but for herself.

Rogue gaining powers just to kick ass doesn't really do anything but check off a box comic book fans wanted to see. That's not the version of the character that was conceived for the franchise, and it's not what any of the filmmakers chose to use. Her conflict was on an entirely different level than those of the other X-Men...she couldn't touch people without hurting them. It wasn't just about powers, it was this concept that was the reason for her existence in the franchise.

That said...there were apparently originally plans for her to gain superstrength powers at one point, if not flight. That was scrapped early on along with the Colossus VS Juggernaut concept.

But we've heard rumblings over the years that there was a superpowered Rogue scene conceived and scrapped due to budgetary concerns. And let's face it, X3 was a fairly expensive movie as it was for the time and for the franchise.

 

[The Guard]

Not really, though, that was more Charles Xavier saved her and by extension, averted the bad future. It was vindicating Charles' dream over Magneto. Its just that in terms of the film's universe, everyone saw Mystique not kill Trask and shoot Magneto.

They do it together. But in no real sense does she singlehandedly save the day in DOFP.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Not really, though, that was more Charles Xavier saved her and by extension, averted the bad future. It was vindicating Charles' dream over Magneto. Its just that in terms of the film's universe, everyone saw Mystique not kill Trask and shoot Magneto.

Mysique not killing Trask, and Mystique shooting Magneto is what showed the president and the world that they don't need the Sentinels...

They do it together. But in no real sense does she singlehandedly save the day in DOFP.

"Everything that happens now is in your hands."

-Charles to Raven

Yes Charles gave her some stern talking to. Yes Beast was fighting off a Sentinel (by curing himself...Oh Beast...). Yes Wolverine tried to distract Magneto. But at the end of the day, it was Mystique *not* pulling the trigger that saved the day AND averted the dark future of 2024.

Charles, Beast and Wolverine could have done all of the above but if Mystique still killed Trask, their actions would've been moot.

There's an interview somewhere of Singer saying something to the effect of "This is probably the only big budget movie where a character (ie. Mystique) *not* doing something (ie. pulling the trigger) is what saves the day.

So what's with people trying to minimize Raven's actions that contributed to the win? Is it to continue this obviously false narrative that JLaw was not given a substantial role because she's JLaw? Just like the obviously false narrative that Raven didn't really lead the X-men in Apocalypse?

She did save the day and all of mutant-kind at the end of DoFP and was heavily idolized by all of the younger mutants in Apocalypse.

Thank you!

I was okay with the events of the former movie, but in the latter? That was just a bit ridiculous.

They needed an in-movie reason for JLaw to not be in make-up the entire time. Afterall, she did "put her foot down." I wonder what it'll be for Dark Phoenix.

In the commentary, I remember the writer/director/producer or something saying that her taking the cure was the best way to justify why she didn't come and help, otherwise it made it seem like she was just goofing off or something while they were fighting.

Oh ok so Angel was goofing oof then? lol

Believe what you want to believe.

Rogue gaining powers just to kick ass doesn't really do anything but check off a box comic book fans wanted to see. That's not the version of the character that was conceived for the franchise, and it's not what any of the filmmakers chose to use.

That said...there were apparently originally plans for her to gain superstrength powers at one point, if not flight. That was scrapped early on along with the Colossus VS Juggernaut concept.

But we've heard rumblings over the years that there was a superpowered Rogue scene conceived and scrapped due to budgetary concerns. And let's face it, X3 was a fairly expensive movie as it was for the time and for the franchise.

So which is it?

It's not a version of the character that was conceived for the franchise;

or

they originally had plans for her to gain strength and flight?

 

[GuestStar2004]

They do it together. But in no real sense does she singlehandedly save the day in DOFP.

Well she saved the day by deciding not to do what she had planned to do most the movie. although I don't think that quite counts as heroic reasoning to say oh Mystique is the only mutant whose allowed to save mutantkind after she was the one that ended up setting the Sentinel program into motion killing dozens of mutants in the other timeline.

Charles is the one that saved the day really. had he not intervened stryker would most likely be dead.

The overall outcome of that really comes down to the misunderstanding of what just occurred.

 

[X-Maniac]

There's a lot of fake news and post-rationalisation BS going on here.

Mystique clearly saved the day, and the whole world saw it and felt she did, because she was seen as a hero in the next movie. No mention of Xavier's actions.

Storm had a poster of Mystique in her home and said she was her hero. Nightcrawler said the same. Mystique was mentioned in Cyclops' classroom at the start of the movie.

I see some desperate attempts to downplay the facts here. But why?

She was regarded as the hero who saved the world, and she was leader of the X-Men. Those are undeniable facts.

I wonder why some of you are trying to downplay or deny it? What's the agenda here? More attempts to stomp on any negativity on here? Too late for that. The films did what the films did. You can't suddenly twist it another way.

 

[Herofan]

The movie also showed that the cure is not permanent, essentially saying via metaphor that you cannot just cure yourself of what's different about you, so it's really kind of a moot point.

I try to just ignore the two last scenes, and pretend the one with Magneto was more ambiguous than it was, since they undo some of the very few good things the third film did. And yes then DoFP completely undid them.

I suppose Rogue's power could have been particularly useful and needed in stopping Jean and that should have been considered.

Not sure if Cyclops dying was because an executive demanded it or because Marsden wasn't otherwise available due to Singer taking him for Superman Returns.

 

[Ipodman]

I try to just ignore the two last scenes, and pretend the one with Magneto was more ambiguous than it was, since they undo some of the very few good things the third film did. And yes then DoFP completely undid them.

I suppose Rogue's power could have been particularly useful and needed in stopping Jean and that should have been considered.

Not sure if Cyclops dying was because an executive demanded it or because Marsden wasn't otherwise available due to Singer taking him for Superman Returns.

As far as I remembered, he jumped ship with Singer and wasn't available

 

[psyonic]

As far as I remembered, he jumped ship with Singer and wasn't available

Singer is partly to blame, he wanted to direct a Superman movie, Fox didn't want to wait, everything fell apart from there. Vaughan dropped out bc of rushed schedule. Actors were available for a limited time (Romijn, Paquin) so their roles were reduced. Marsden was killed off because he did Superman. Phoenix and The Cure was squished into one movie. Crappy writing. **** fest all around.. man I'm still raw about this.

Singer was going to do X3 and X4 back to back, Cyclops/ Jean being the focus.

 

[Jh7058622]

There's a lot of fake news and post-rationalisation BS going on here.

Mystique clearly saved the day, and the whole world saw it and felt she did, because she was seen as a hero in the next movie. No mention of Xavier's actions.

Storm had a poster of Mystique in her home and said she was her hero. Nightcrawler said the same. Mystique was mentioned in Cyclops' classroom at the start of the movie.

I see some desperate attempts to downplay the facts here. But why?

She was regarded as the hero who saved the world, and she was leader of the X-Men. Those are undeniable facts.

I wonder why some of you are trying to downplay or deny it? What's the agenda here? More attempts to stomp on any negativity on here? Too late for that. The films did what the films did. You can't suddenly twist it another way.

If Charles part of saving the president was televised he'd be hero worshipped too. So no you're rewriting history not anyone else who points that out. You think everyone who gets celebrity deserves the sole ownership for why they got there?

 

[GuestStar2004]

Singer was going to do X3 and X4 back to back, Cyclops/ Jean being the focus.

I dunno whether there has ever been confirmation Cyclops/jean were gonna be the focus. I know David Hayter did an interview or podcast interview where he talked abit about Singers X3 ideas and he didn't mention Cyclops once. he mentioned Wolverine and a few ideas he had for Wolverine including managing to get jean to the ground and being unable to kill her because he "loves her"

Although it is ironic that Singer was likely the reason Cyclops wasn't in X3 all that much anyway. I still think he probably hired Marsden and tried to get some of the other cast hoping it would force FOX to put the movie on hold.

 

[2kt09]

I dunno whether there has ever been confirmation Cyclops/jean were gonna be the focus. I know David Hayter did an interview or podcast interview where he talked abit about Singers X3 ideas and he didn't mention Cyclops once. he mentioned Wolverine and a few ideas he had for Wolverine including managing to get jean to the ground and being unable to kill her because he "loves her"

Although it is ironic that Singer was likely the reason Cyclops wasn't in X3 all that much anyway. I still think he probably hired Marsden and tried to get some of the other cast hoping it would force FOX to put the movie on hold.

Isn't Hayter a big Wolvie fan?

 

[GuestStar2004]

More attempts to stomp on any negativity on here?

Problem with the negativity is that people are often looking for more things to be negative about once they get through the stuff worth being negative about end up seeing what they wanna see.

Heck i still can't believe we had a debate some weeks ago about how Cyclops blasting into the sky after the mansion explosion would be a plot error due to the idea that stryker possibly seeing it and going after cyclops even though his purpose wasn't there to capture the mutants, but for some reason he would go all out to find the mutant that shot into the sky

 

[GuestStar2004]

Isn't Hayter a big Wolvie fan?

Yeah he did say that.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Heck i still can't believe we had a debate some weeks ago about how Cyclops blasting into the sky after the mansion explosion would be a plot error due to the idea that stryker possibly seeing it and going after cyclops even though his purpose wasn't there to capture the mutants, but for some reason he would go all out to find the mutant that shot into the sky

You say that as if you’ve proven you were right. You haven’t.