Dark Phoenix X-Men Dark Phoenix SPOILER Discussion

[EnDz0n3]

The Stan Lee tribute during CM was kinda cool.

LOL "Storm insists on coming, too."

 

[Mutant 77]

Just asking...

At the very end of the movie, is there an X-Men team supposed to keep up the good work?
Are they shown one last time on uniform in the ending? ( I guess not).

Ah, then: is Jean Grey supposed to be "Marvel Girl" at the beginning of the movie? Is "Dark Phoenix" the result of the cosmic entity merging with her pre-existent Phoenix personality/power?

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Just asking...

At the very end of the movie, is there an X-Men team supposed to keep up the good work?
Are they shown one last time on uniform in the ending? ( I guess not).

Ah, then: is Jean Grey supposed to be "Marvel Girl" at the beginning of the movie? Is "Dark Phoenix" the result of the cosmic entity merging with her pre-existent Phoenix personality/power?

Yeah, no uniforms at the end. The team is just shown in a montage doing various things around the mansion.

She’s pretty much normal Jean in the beginning. I think it’s implied that there’s some darkness in her to begin with. Dark Phoenix (though never ever referred to as such) is absolutely the result of the mixing of Jean and “the Force”. But as I understand it, the Force doesn’t really talk like it did in the comics. Jean can’t control it or her resulting, amplified power, and she snaps. The Force turns her mind into a natural Cerebro, causing her to hear all these voices at once without control. This, combined with the emotional distress of finding out her father’s actually alive, Charles lied to her and that she’s responsible for Mystique’s death turns her “dark.” It seems like the darkness really stems from a human place that most people would probably be able to identify with to a degree. That’s an interesting way to make the Dark Phoenix character a little more relatable.

I kind of have to connect some of the dots since I didn’t see it myself. Icekid has seen it, and I welcome him to correct anything I’ve said that may not be precise.

 

[Mutant 77]

Yeah, no uniforms at the end. The team is just shown in a montage doing various things around the mansion.

That seems to me a very odd ending, a bit uneventful. I hope to be wrong.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

That seems to me a very odd ending, a bit uneventful. I hope to be wrong.

Eh, maybe? It shows that Beast is back with the X-Men and keeping Raven’s memory alive with her picture on his desk, Storm’s shown teaching chemistry, Quicksilver’s recovering and Cyclops changes the school’s name to “Jean Grey School for Higher Learning.” And, of course, Magneto meeting up with Xavier in Paris (in this cut,) ending with a shot of a phoenix in the distant sky. It’s a character-driven ending that, yeah, on paper doesn’t sound inventive or exciting. But, maybe the execution will make up for it. I guess they just wanted to show us where everyone’s at since it’s going to be the last main film in this cinematic universe.

 

[kineticist]

Yeah, no uniforms at the end. The team is just shown in a montage doing various things around the mansion.

She’s pretty much normal Jean in the beginning. I think it’s implied that there’s some darkness in her to begin with. Dark Phoenix (though never ever referred to as such) is absolutely the result of the mixing of Jean and “the Force”.

Is she ever referred to (or does she every refer to herself) as the Phoenix though?

 

[Mutant 77]

Eh, maybe? It shows that Beast is back with the X-Men and keeping Raven’s memory alive with her picture on his desk, Storm’s shown teaching chemistry, Quicksilver’s recovering and Cyclops changes the school’s name to “Jean Grey School for Higher Learning.” And, of course, Magneto meeting up with Xavier in Paris (in this cut,) ending with a shot of a phoenix in the distant sky. It’s a character-driven ending that, yeah, on paper doesn’t sound inventive or exciting. But, maybe the execution will make up for it. I guess they just wanted to show us where everyone’s at since it’s going to be the last main film in this cinematic universe.

Now that you revealed me more details about it, I must say that is a gorgeous ending and a great closure for this epic franchise. Thank you so much.

 

[Mutant 77]

Is she ever referred to (or does she every refer to herself) as the Phoenix though?

Yeah, I kinda asked this posts before. Is she ever referred as Marvel Girl, Phoenix or Dark Phoenix? I guess she is supposed to have a public codename as well during her X-Man days.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Is she ever referred to (or does she every refer to herself) as the Phoenix though?

Yeah, I kinda asked this posts before. Is she ever referred as Marvel Girl, Phoenix or Dark Phoenix? I guess she is supposed to have a public codename as well during her X-Man days.

No, just Jean Grey throughout. Scott has a line (I think) about how the students are comparing her survival/revival during the space mission to that of a phoenix. That’s pretty early on in the film and I don’t think they ever outright namedrop “Phoenix” again. I’m guessing they want the cosmic “force” to be something very natural yet godlike; something that wouldn’t identify itself by an earthly name.

 

[Mutant 77]

Great choice!

 

[psylockolussus]

The ending sounds lame.

 

[Mutant 77]

Is Cudmore recognizable or disguised by make-up?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

These spoilers don’t sound too bad, this along with the latest trailer are actually getting me excited for the movie.

 

[Manasrepublic]

Kinberg is the one to embrace. I hope MCU directors and creative executives in charge of the future operations hire him for his talents, experience, skilled approach, knowledge and extensive investment with these characters to bring the same dark comic accurate flavors and production design to the future films. His logic of the rather bland appearing costumes from Dark Phoenix because they used 80s-90s clothing materials and styles then is simply elegant and classy. He has a highly studious, methodical, and diligent approach to his filmmaking and his design logic and vfx choices excel for that of a first time native director. I hope they carry over his approach to the new set of films.

I think a parallel dimension route would be solid and have them transplanted into the MCU via an alternative transportation method would be most appropriate for continuity purposes. Recasting and redesigning everything seems too extreme and unnecessary. We have the well-produced stock already made in cast, design, and look. Why change it up when people enjoy the flavors and are clearly looking forward to this film? (People were reacting very positively to the trailer that played with the theatrical Captain Marvel film experience).

 

[Mutant 77]

Kinberg is the one to embrace. I hope MCU directors and creative executives in charge of the future operations hire him for his talents, experience, skilled approach, knowledge and extensive investment with these characters to bring the same dark comic accurate flavors and production design to the future films. His logic of the rather bland appearing costumes from Dark Phoenix because they used 80s-90s clothing materials and styles then is simply elegant and classy. He has a highly studious, methodical, and diligent approach to his filmmaking and his design logic and vfx choices excel for that of a first time native director. I hope they carry over his approach to the new set of films.

I think a parallel dimension route would be solid and have them transplanted into the MCU via an alternative transportation method would be most appropriate for continuity purposes. Recasting and redesigning everything seems too extreme and unnecessary. We have the well-produced stock already made in cast, design, and look. Why change it up when people enjoy the flavors and are clearly looking forward to this film? (People were reacting very positively to the trailer that played with the theatrical Captain Marvel film experience).

GREAT INSIGHT, wonderful post. Thank you. You're 100% right on everything.

 

[psylockolussus]

Kinberg is the one to embrace? Wow haven't you seen all the films he was credited as a writer.... he already botched the look of Selene and Red Lotus. Someone who embraces the source material wouldn't let minor details such as adapting someone powers and costume, be so drastic. Dazzler is a DJ not a singer or a popstar. The aliens are not the Shi'ar Empire but some unnamed aliens.... that genius can't be fully embracing stuff.

And please Feige, keep him out of the MCU!

 

[Zorro]

Not feeling a lot of the spoilers and am disapointed in the uniform thing despite making sense in the story as suited up X teams is always special to me.

I won't judge much though and let it play out. Have to say that part of me is sad this is it for the franchise after everything since X1 but part of me is anxious and so ready for a complete reboot and a new addition to the MCU alongside the fantastic four

 

[Vasilios]

If all these spoilers are true then this movie is a huge let down for me. Smh

 

[Mysteryman]

You mean they referenced the comic book, not this film.

It was a cute easter egg, but it had NOTHING to do with the X_Men in any way shape or form.

 

[Hand Banana]

These aliens sound like the comic version of the Chitauri from what I’ve heard as someone pointed out. Wonder if they worked out a deal with Kevin Feige.

 

[icekid]

These aliens sound like the comic version of the Chitauri from what I’ve heard as someone pointed out. Wonder if they worked out a deal with Kevin Feige.

They literally aren’t even named, so they’re whatever anyone wants them to be I guess. No deal necessary. We don’t see a home world, though that may have changed and we may see more civilizations in that hologram (not a telepathic illusion) we see in the trailer when the room fades away. That’s in their base. We don’t even see a ship, just lights.

All we know is their brains operate differently than humans which renders human telepaths useless against them.

Kind of smart considering thoughts are basically emotional responses to surroundings,who’s to say that such human constructs are lateral for them. Like how Xavier was able to broadcast the same message across the entire planet in multiple languages, because human thoughts are all the same. After she’s exiled from Genosha, Jean is telepathically disguising herself as an old man while she’s smoldering and drinking in a bar, with worldwide manhunt news about her playing in the background, when Chastain walks in and explains that her illusions are useless against her and her kind. Who knows if they really have genders or if they just appear to have genders because the humans they...stole their looks from...had genders.

 

[icekid]

Is she ever referred to (or does she every refer to herself) as the Phoenix though?

No, and definitely not called Marvel Girl for obvious reasons that would be confusing to the general public. The force that she is becomes the host of, and who she was always destined to be, is the essence of life and creation, and that force is something civilizations across the cosmos are aware of. Chastain’s character leads a civilization that wants it to shape the universe to their will. It won’t go by a name or an mythological creature from Earth.

The name is mentioned once, in a party sequence in the woods around the mansion celebrating the space mission. This is where Dazzler is putting on her show which looked absolutely incredible btw. Jean has the first of her uncontrollable power outburst as a result of being connected to every living being at once on accident, which she hears her father among them. We see the 2nd one in the trailer when she yells stop. Right before Scott runs up to her with new drinks for them and he says “The students have a new name for you, Phoenix, the firebird that dies and rises from the ashes stronger”. He’s cut off when we see what’s happening to her and then everyone is blown back and the forest is levelled. Beast and Raven were discussing other things, that later fuel his anger, when his machine picks up her power spike and she realizes it’s Jean since she was concerned how she bounced back so quickly. It’s their footsteps we see running through the mansion in the teaser trailer, to the party when right as they get to the doors they’re blown back inside. Foreshadowing the later incident.

One more flaw with the retcon making Phoenix into a force than just her ultimate expression, why would it be a bird where nowhere in the comics, anywhere, have we seen other planets have bird life. The Shiar are avian creatures for crying out loud! They haven’t connected it to what they evolved from yet or is no one seeing how silly it is as I do.

 

[Nadia]

No, and definitely not called Marvel Girl for obvious reasons that would be confusing to the general public. The force that she is becomes the host of, and who she was always destined to be, is the essence of life and creation, and that force is something civilizations across the cosmos are aware of. Chastain’s character leads a civilization that wants it to shape the universe to their will. It won’t go by a name or an mythological creature from Earth.

The name is mentioned once, in a party sequence in the woods around the mansion celebrating the space mission. This is where Dazzler is putting on her show which looked absolutely incredible btw. Jean has the first of her uncontrollable power outburst as a result of being connected to every living being at once on accident, which she hears her father among them. We see the 2nd one in the trailer when she yells stop. Right before Scott runs up to her with new drinks for them and he says “The students have a new name for you, Phoenix, the firebird that dies and rises from the ashes stronger”. He’s cut off when we see what’s happening to her and then everyone is blown back and the forest is levelled. Beast and Raven were discussing other things, that later fuel his anger, when his machine picks up her power spike and she realizes it’s Jean since she was concerned how she bounced back so quickly. It’s their footsteps we see running through the mansion in the teaser trailer, to the party when right as they get to the doors they’re blown back inside. Foreshadowing the later incident.

One more flaw with the retcon making Phoenix into a force than just her ultimate expression, why would it be a bird where nowhere in the comics, anywhere, have we seen other planets have bird life. The Shiar are avian creatures for crying out loud! They haven’t connected it to what they evolved from yet or is no one seeing how silly it is as I do.

I don't see an issue with it being a bird. If it is described as "the essence of life and creation" you could justify it as being the inspiration of the mythological Phoenix on earth by ancient civilisations.

Alternatively, you could argue the Force has a no true form. But once it bonds with Jean it takes on a form suited to her; that line from Scott could even "inspire" the Pheonix.

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

They literally aren’t even named, so they’re whatever anyone wants them to be I guess. No deal necessary. We don’t see a home world, though that may have changed and we may see more civilizations in that hologram (not a telepathic illusion) we see in the trailer when the room fades away. That’s in their base. We don’t even see a ship, just lights.

All we know is their brains operate differently than humans which renders human telepaths useless against them.

Kind of smart considering thoughts are basically emotional responses to surroundings,who’s to say that such human constructs are lateral for them. Like how Xavier was able to broadcast the same message across the entire planet in multiple languages, because human thoughts are all the same. After she’s exiled from Genosha, Jean is telepathically disguising herself as an old man while she’s smoldering and drinking in a bar, with worldwide manhunt news about her playing in the background, when Chastain walks in and explains that her illusions are useless against her and her kind. Who knows if they really have genders or if they just appear to have genders because the humans they...stole their looks from...had genders.

so why is she being man hunted by the authorities? Why is she exiled from Genosha? And what prompts her to the leave the mansion and have the X-Men flee after her?

 

[Nadia]

so why is she being man hunted by the authorities? Why is she exiled from Genosha? And what prompts her to the leave the mansion and have the X-Men flee after her?

I haven't seen the film or know anyone who has seen it so this pure speculation based on rumours/my own speculation.

Xavier wipes/alters Jeans mind with regards to her fathers survival (I believe her father doesn't want her and blames her for her mother death).

Once she takes in the cosmic Pheonix, she discovers her father is alive and Xavier lied to her. The Force is making her unstable and likely feeding off/amplifying her extreme emotions (betrayal, anger etc). I think that's why she runs away from the X-mansion because she feels betrayed by Xavier and wants to find her father.

I believe the manhunt is orchestrated from two angles. She clearly causes mass amounts of destruction at her fathers home; so they will want to stop an out of control mutant (plus Jean is famous now so there will be extra pressure on the government to find her).
I also think Chastain is will be manipulating the government officials as away to lead Jean to her/ isolate her from everyone.

Jean on Genonsha. I feel she clearly goes there after Mystiques death. I think she will lie to Magneto at first. But eventually he will find out she killed Msytique.
The MCU will show up (my guess is Chastain sends them there) and the Dark Phoenix persona takes over in order to "protect its host" (when she takes down the helicopter she looks like she is playing with them not simply removing a threat).