Dark Phoenix X-Men Dark Phoenix SPOILER Discussion

Yeah I loved that scene but you’re right, it didn’t get time to sit with the characters. They didn’t have time to process what just happened to them and for us to see that. It was in a hurry to roll the credits.

Exactly. If the movie wants to go there, it needs to do it properly. In many ways, this should have been the moment the whole film led to and the moment that completely changes how characters/audiences were feeling toward Jean (and how Jean feels about herself). It got played as an edgy and disrespectful thought experiment.
 
One way is for her to kill someone important, which they did with Mystique.

And I honestly think that was a mistake. If they didn't want to go with killing billions by destroying a solar system, they could certainly come up with something else that, in the hands of the right writers and directors, should be impactful enough.

Making Jean kill one of their own, in both adaptations, created a division and conflict in the team, and they focused too much on that. And that's not really what I associate with the X-Men or that storyline. I mean, they made Jean Grey more like a source of conflict for the X-Men, and I felt like it was a disservice to the character. As I said before, Jean's last scene in X2, IMO, paid more respect to the essence of the storyline and to Jean as a character than the entire Dark Phoenix movie. Jean getting emotional looking at the X-Men before getting out of the Jet is the Jean we should've seen more in Dark Phoenix. They should have focused more on this woman who could sacrifice herself for the people she loves, than turning her into the source of conflict of them.
 
Chastain said in an interview "I kill some x-men" (or something to that effect) were more x-men supposed to die in this film?
I suspect she thought Selene and Red Lotus were X-men. That or she was parroting a talking point that Kinberg was selling to the media.

Fassy was doing the same thing, at one of the premieres he was repeating PR lines from Kinberg, "They did Dark Phoenix in X-men: The Last Stand and this is our chance to correct those mistakes."

These actors are too trusting of Kinberg. They probably don't know he's the laughing stock amongst the fandom.
 
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And I honestly think that was a mistake. If they didn't want to go with killing billions by destroying a solar system, they could certainly come up with something else that, in the hands of the right writers and directors, should be impactful enough.

Making Jean kill one of their own, in both adaptations, created a division and conflict in the team, and they focused too much on that. And that's not really what I associate with the X-Men or that storyline. I mean, they made Jean Grey more like a source of conflict for the X-Men, and I felt like it was a disservice to the character. As I said before, Jean's last scene in X2, IMO, paid more respect to the essence of the storyline and to Jean as a character than the entire Dark Phoenix movie. Jean getting emotional looking at the X-Men before getting out of the Jet is the Jean we should've seen more in Dark Phoenix. They should have focused more on this woman who could sacrifice herself for the people she loves, than turning her into the source of conflict of them.

I don't really care about specific comic book accuracy as long as the spirit of the comics is captured in the films. X2 definitely has the spirit that DP lacks. I like the first 20 mins because Jean is heroic and selfless, however, we still don't know what her teammates mean to her. Is Storm her sister or a colleague? What does she think about Nightcrawler? Why does she love Cyclops?

The movie takes a stab at Jean's heroic sacrifice but I honestly couldn't care less. A lazy voiceover and weird and special effects? Where the hell is the fire form promised in those beautiful early posters? The phoenix raptor in the distance at the end was embarrassing and cheesy. I'm frustrated by so much.
 
I like the first 20 mins because Jean is heroic and selfless, however, we still don't know what her teammates mean to her.

Exactly. Or what she means for them. I mean, look at how they react when she basically dies in space. Or when she actually dies. It's just... emotionless.

Also, they focused too much on negative aspects of her relationships. We've seen a bit of her relationship with Raven, but she kills her. She runs to Eric, but he wants to kill her. Charles was the one who harmed her. We knew Scott loved her, but why? We didn't see or feel that. We knew why Hank and Eric wanted to kill her, but why the X-Men wanted to save her?

They should have focused more on positive aspects of Jean's character and her relationships.
 
Ugh absolutely.

I think I rolled my eyes when Scott put the Jean Grey School sign up. Everything was rushed, negative.
 
Kind of hard to argue that she wasn't an essential part of the movie. It was just an especially bland and uninteresting part of it. She had some major screentime, and an impact on Jean.

It's not lazy to understand the mechanics involved in taking a character who pretty much HAS to have ties to Charles Xavier and understand that this would shift more screentime to Xavier and take it away from Jean.

I don't recall anyone ever saying that, but they pretty clearly didn't use Lilandra because they didn't want to completely underserve the character. She was conceived as a key element of a two part storyline, where she would have had more adequate devleopment/exploration. If you read between the lines a bit...Marvel is probably going to use Lilandra in its franchise, and sooner rather than later.

Why is this incorrect? If they'd included Wolverine, audiences likely would have wanted to see that familiar element. That would require additional screentime, as would Wolverine's mere existence in the story.

They did have fiery Jean.

They had it when she truly "let go" and embraced her power, much like the previous film.

His reasons are perfectly logical and based on structural screenwriting concerns.

But Cassandra Nova would have required more time to tell the story, to develop that angle, and that would give more screenttime to Charles.

There are very real constraints when it comes to making a single film. Something like the Hellfire Club or even Cassandra Nova was probably just a bit too complex for a single film.

If they were going to have a somewhat "faceless" villain, they made the right call, I think, in terms of how it fits into the Dark Phoenix storyline and the fate of Earth. It just wasn't executed well.
I'd rather not relitigate every single one of these excuses.

The end is near. You don't have to defend this franchise any more.
 
@icekid Did you see the UN scene and the original ending in space? Does Jean show more powers in these scenes than what we got in the train ending? And do you think that could possibly be in an alternate cut that they release? Thanks for clearing things up for fans.
 
@icekid Did you see the UN scene and the original ending in space? Does Jean show more powers in these scenes than what we got in the train ending? And do you think that could possibly be in an alternate cut that they release? Thanks for clearing things up for fans.

No I didn’t see it, I just got details from everyone else.
 
“I whip my hair back and forth
I whip my hair back and forth”


Yeah, he was pretty useless.
 
Anyone from “genosha” was a waste including “genosha” itself. Most of the movie was a waste to be honest.

Ya but he was like exceptionally bad lol.
 
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I dont understand the backlash.
when did criteria for objectively rating movies change? End game was bad and at best average but everyone paraded it.
I watched Dark Phoenix, its far away my fave X-men film. Not only that, but objectively it was good, great pacing, convincing plot, overally great acting, compelling viilian--
Maybe time will re-assess everything but I truly dont get the poor scores. IT was a really solid movie to me.
I wouldn't go that far. However, I will say that I felt like Dark Phoenix moved at a good pace and didn't waste any screentime. Whereas there are sections of Endgame, particularly in the second act, that drag and are a little boring. And there are other moments
Captain America vs. Captain America
that serve no purpose in carrying the story forward. But I did enjoy that movie overall despite those flaws.
 
Anyone from “genosha” was a waste including “genosha” itself. Most of the movie was a waste to be honest.

Genosha looked like a hobo farm shot in a backyard.

Here's Genosha in Wolverine and the X-Men:

latest


Think about this guys. Magneto is a master of metal. He's the master of Magnetism. He could probably construct and easily build a city in weeks if not days.
 
More food for thought, Magneto, together with Jean Grey, rebuilt the X-mansion in a day. But this is what happens when a film's writer/director has never seen the previous movie. Oh wait...
 
Idk if this has been discussed but they really should've gone for an R rating. While I was watching I kept wishing they would just go for it. Like make the Prof X walking scene disturbing and like bone-crunchy, let Magneto shove metal in Jean's eye and have her heal it, go for it!!
 
Idk if this has been discussed but they really should've gone for an R rating. While I was watching I kept wishing they would just go for it. Like make the Prof X walking scene disturbing and like bone-crunchy, let Magneto shove metal in Jean's eye and have her heal it, go for it!!

There was no way such a mainstream and iconic storyline would have gone R-rated where it really didn’t need to be. They could get away with all that they did and more without it. He only thing that may have gotten a R rating would have been if they went with Jean being “killed” mid movie Xorneto style with blood coming from her eyes and all, but even then, the story didn’t need it.
 
There's absolutely no reason to do an R-rated X-men movie. The box office alone doesn't support it.
 
And that’s what it was. *sigh* once upon a time. That’s why the UN was brought in. To force the leaders of Earth to find and hand Jean over for destruction while the entire planet was being held hostage.

So what would have been the titles of the films?
 
So what would have been the titles of the films?

No idea. I just know of the plot outline details. All I can do is imagine the titles at this point. Based on the context I know, I would image the first part would have been a Dark Phoenix and the 2nd have been X-Men: Phoenix (again I’m just making up the titles) because that’s the one where the teams were to really come together including a few of the trainees, which were cut and trimmed to extras entirely.
 
No idea. I just know of the plot outline details. I don’t think Dark Phoenix I / Dark Phoenix II we’re it, though I would have liked them to be. All I can do is imagine the titles at this point. Based on the context I know, I would image the first part would have been a Dark Phoenix and the 2nd have been X-Men: Phoenix (again I’m just making up the titles) because that’s the one where the teams were to really come together including a few of the trainees, which were cut and trimmed to extras entirely.

I’m going to guess that the first film was X-Men: Supernova.
 
was Quicksilver left out of the final act because the actor was unavailable for reshoots?
 
I’m going to guess that the first film was X-Men: Supernova.
One would think, but that one encompasses more of the Dark Phoenix aspects of the story whereas the 2nd was more with the ramifications of it, explored the Shiar as these kind of fish out of water characters around Earth with Xavier being the POV into that, and Jean and Scott I think were on the run. The X-Men captured and the trainees that had been divided since the funeral coming to break them out, all plot lines converging on the UN.
was Quicksilver left out of the final act because the actor was unavailable for reshoots?
yup, both summers he was filming AHS, first time it was Cult where he was the main character and the 2nd was Apocalypse where he portrayed around 4 characters or so. He was available for a few weeks the first time around but they wrote all of them out since it was cleaner to just have it be between Xavier, Scott and Jean than just a handful of mix and match characters from the first two acts.
 

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