You Buy/You Think for 5-12-10 *It Spoils*

[fifthfiend]

So, it's like Bendis; he's written so much **** that when he comes around and writes something that is merely average, a lot of people dance in the sun about it?

It's not quite the same because the **** Bendis writes usually ****s up the entire Marvel universe as a whole, so when he manages to work himself all the way up to mediocre, that means like dozens of books, characters and plotlines that he's managing to not particularly **** up.

 

[fifthfiend]

You can't have every single named enemy of Spider-Man from Kingpin to Shocker either know his identity or unmask him and then turn around and allow him to have some sort of normal civilian life, when there is no way that would happen

Look I mean I know this is a superhero universe where people have all kinds of crazy, fantastic abilities but expecting the Kingpin to be able to find people who can 1. construct a reasonably accurate drawn/written depiction of someone based on verbal descriptions from recollection and 2. a person with the investigative capabilities to determine someone's whereabouts based on such a description along with other known facts about the individual, that's just a little far fetched, don't you think?

 

[hippie_hunter]

One thing I gotta know about the Red Hulk

Spoiler

Where the hell does his mustache go? Also this doesn't make any ****ing sense.

And with Titans....**** this ********. I loved Gail Simone's All New Atom. I love the Titans. Both have gotten sullied by this garbage. And I payed $4.99 for this. Damn you DC, this is unforgivable

 

[fifthfiend]

Spoiler

Where the hell does his mustache go? Also this doesn't make any ****ing sense.

"The angrier I am, the TOM SELLECKER I GET!!"

 

[Dread]

It's not quite the same because the **** Bendis writes usually ****s up the entire Marvel universe as a whole, so when he manages to work himself all the way up to mediocre, that means like dozens of books, characters and plotlines that he's managing to not particularly **** up.

Ultimate fans would claim Loeb is equally capable of messing up a whole universe. Although, to be fair, both Millar and Bendis in their Ultimate titles after ULTIMATUM paid lip service that it happened, and promptly ignored much of it. I mean there have to be some Ultimate fans still here...UCSM still sells about 35k or so. Loeb also has a strangle hold on the Hulk titles; while Greg Pak provided WORLD WAR HULK and PLANET HULK, his title basically follows what Loeb is doing on HULK, not vice versa.

But I do see your point. Bendis' muckery impacts a lot more titles. Still, though, both are A-List writers who are hyped up the wazoo yet their work these days often is at or below average. It's like when LeBron James only has an "average" game performance, despite being one of the biggest super stars in basketball. Does every Cleveland fan cheer if he has, gasp, a double double? Or is there more expected of him because of his hype and super status? Comic writers are similar, although earn less bread. Bendis is touted as Marvel's top and best writer, and the best anyone can say of SIEGE is, "it sucked less than his last 3 events". That to me isn't worth cheering about.

Look I mean I know this is a superhero universe where people have all kinds of crazy, fantastic abilities but expecting the Kingpin to be able to find people who can 1. construct a reasonably accurate drawn/written depiction of someone based on verbal descriptions from recollection and 2. a person with the investigative capabilities to determine someone's whereabouts based on such a description along with other known facts about the individual, that's just a little far fetched, don't you think?

Ultimate Spider-Man's first major battle was at Midtown High (fighting Green Goblin). You unmask him and find out he's a teenager. You're not just any hood, but the Kingpin Of Crime. He's just foiled your scheme. You have a sketch done, and you stake out Midtown High. Given how often things revolved around there, in about a week Spider-Man is seen there, or you spot a kid who looks like Parker, or spread the sketch around and some kid ID's him (maybe Flash Thompson). Done.

(Hell, you're the Kingpin Of Crime; you offer a fat reward if anyone in the underworld has a name and address, and if Norman Osborn needs a few million, maybe he bites, if only to manipulate Fisk...)

The problem with Bendis on USM is that he wants to have it both ways. There are plenty of moments where he wants to claim that certain mythos expectations of Spider-Man are outdated or far fetched, and he will go out of his way to alter them, while telling you how lame the expected style was. One moment where Foggy Nelson lectures Spidey about walking a crook to a precinct and filing charges is one such moment. But on the other hand, Bendis will then construct a tale in which no level of realism is applied, and is hokier than the 616 canon. Many villains in 616 did know Spidey's identity...but it usually took at least a decade or so in between many of them. Green Goblin & Jackal in the 70's (both died), Venom & Kraven in the 80's (the latter killed himself), Doc Ock in the 90's (before he "forgot" it after a Hand resurrection), and so on. USM had virtually Spider-Man's ENTIRE rogues gallery know his name and face before issue #90, especially after the ULTIMATE SIX episode. How does he have any sort of life? Now if Bendis took it to a logical conclusion it might have worked and made USM interesting, or had some logical method of undoing it; i.e. a story in which Parker, tired of the threats, asks Professor X and Jean Grey of the X-Men to erase the identity from his villains, but something goes wrong, maybe MJ forgets too, and whatnot...that easily could have been a better arc than, say, "JUMP THE SHARK".

But what do I know about writing a comic, right?

In comparison, the cartoon SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN handled things a lot better, although in fairness they had 7 years of hindsight.

 

[fifthfiend]

Ultimate Spider-Man's first major battle was at Midtown High (fighting Green Goblin). You unmask him and find out he's a teenager. You're not just any hood, but the Kingpin Of Crime. He's just foiled your scheme. You have a sketch done, and you stake out Midtown High. Given how often things revolved around there, in about a week Spider-Man is seen there, or you spot a kid who looks like Parker, or spread the sketch around and some kid ID's him (maybe Flash Thompson). Done.

I just want to make sure it's clear that I was being totally sarcastic to the effect of both of those things I said are pretty incredibly common and easy to have done if someone has any kind of meaningful resources available, as that from reading your response it is unclear whether my response was clear in that regard.

 

[fifthfiend]

The problem with Bendis on USM is that he wants to have it both ways. There are plenty of moments where he wants to claim that certain mythos expectations of Spider-Man are outdated or far fetched, and he will go out of his way to alter them, while telling you how lame the expected style was. One moment where Foggy Nelson lectures Spidey about walking a crook to a precinct and filing charges is one such moment. But on the other hand, Bendis will then construct a tale in which no level of realism is applied, and is hokier than the 616 canon. Many villains in 616 did know Spidey's identity...but it usually took at least a decade or so in between many of them. Green Goblin & Jackal in the 70's (both died), Venom & Kraven in the 80's (the latter killed himself), Doc Ock in the 90's (before he "forgot" it after a Hand resurrection), and so on. USM had virtually Spider-Man's ENTIRE rogues gallery know his name and face before issue #90, especially after the ULTIMATE SIX episode. How does he have any sort of life? Now if Bendis took it to a logical conclusion it might have worked and made USM interesting, or had some logical method of undoing it; i.e. a story in which Parker, tired of the threats, asks Professor X and Jean Grey of the X-Men to erase the identity from his villains, but something goes wrong, maybe MJ forgets too, and whatnot...that easily could have been a better arc than, say, "JUMP THE SHARK".

I think the problem with worrying about unrealism in comics is that unrealism is pretty much the bubble under the skin of comics where pushing it down in one place inevitably pushes it up somewhere else. So arguing about something being unrealistic really just means arguing which kind of unrealistic you're willing to tolerate.

Bendis clearly has a huge aversion to the kind of unrealisticness that says circumstances will always / almost always align so that Spider-Man is able to keep his mask on, but it just means that he's completely tolerant of the unrealisticness that says that basically every single villain Spider-Man fights is functionally ******ed on a level that makes the staff of the Daily Planet look like Pulitzer-winning investigative journalists or something.

 

[Phaedrus45]

The Green Hornet Strikes #1

This is the fourth/fifth(??) Green Hornet title from Dynamite..and, I'm thinking it's future Hornet. (We have past Hornet (the original), new Hornet (Kevin Smith's), and this one...not including a few Kato titles thrown in for good measure.) It was an alright read; though, a tad confusing, as it switches from an old Hornet to the mysterious new one thoughout. I like the look of this new one; but, as it's only the first issue, I haven't gotten a good feel for the book. I will say it's got the same Brett Matthews feel as his Lone Ranger book; which, isn't necessarily a good thing. You don't usually get a much in each issue with him, and it all feels rather dragged out.

X-Men Forever #23

The first series comes to an end next issue (with an additional Giant-Size being thrown in afterwards), and Claremont offs another major character. While in the regular 616 fans might be a bit more up-in-arms, that's not a problem with Forever, as it's an alternate universe where the writer can do whatever he wants without any real repercussions. And, that's what makes this such a fun series.

Unlike the 616, where Jean Grey bites it all the time, we're seeing all the loves of Jean die now. (Don't worry Cyclops fans...Scott is still such a putz in this universe that Jean wants nothing to do with him.) This romance barely got started....didn't even get into the heavy petting stage...and, Beast is killed off. Kabloooey! I love it! (Oh, and Tony Stark bites it, too!)

Sure, this isn't the greatest X-story ever told; but, it is fun to read. And, I think it shows in Claremont's writing.

PunisherMax #7

Another great issue of my favorite Punisher title. (Sure, Remender's Frankencastle is a fun read, too...but, if I had to choose, I'd pick this hands down.) The Bullseye storyline continues, and this issue really shows what a nutjob the guy is. He's hunting Frank Castle for the Kingpin, and will stop at nothing to get his guy.

The Marvel Project #8

Brubaker's mini comes to an end; and, while I thought it started out pretty good, it kind of ends with a whimper. We get all the introductions about how The Invaders came together and each character's origin in the process, and it's done well enough; but, nothing wowed me. (I feel like an American Idol judge...."Brubaker, you were a bit pitchy in parts, but we know you can sing. This just didn't blow me away, but I still believe in you, dog.") In the end, it's a nice read; but, in a year's time, will any of us really remember it?

DMZ #53

Ugggg...I'm getting bored with this title again. I simply don't want to read a bunch of narration or news reports throughout a book. And, Matty Roth's adventures get a bit tedious after a while. I don't care about the new government, and I care less about Parco Delgado. I want this series to end...but, I don't see how or when that would ever happen. I think about dropping the title; but, then if things get good again, I'll never know. I'm the only person my lcs buys this book for, and I don't think another sole on The Hype is reading it.

The Unwritten #13

Not as good as the previous issue; but, this advances Tommy Taylor's story nicely. We see a group of people who are desperate to capture Wilson Taylor, and they're about to release a 14th Tommy Taylor novel...except it's a forgery, used in an attempt to lure Wilson out of hiding. There's a bunch of stuff going on in this single issue, and I don't understand it all. (Was Frankenstein just a figment of Tommy's imagination?) At least, unlike DMZ, I feel this comic has a purpose and is striving for some future goal.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I finished The Marvels Project and sort of wondered why anyone felt the need to tell that story. I didn't expect it to be literally just a tour through Marvel's Golden Age. I was expecting something bigger to happen. It bored me a bit in retrospect, to be honest.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Then I'm glad I stopped after the first or second issue.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It wasn't bad, I just felt it was a bit pointless. I was actually kind of hoping that John Steele guy would find his way to the present. He seemed cool.

 

[RockSP]

Ultimate Spider-Man #10

In this issue, The Hood revealed!

Spoiler

It's Kitty Pryde, taking a very Brotherhood-of-evil-mutants-style turn.

Pretty sure it was revealed in an earlier issue.

Wow, I wasn't aware there were people who actually had strong feelings one way or another about Rogue. She's always been pretty much a non-entity to me. The most I ever liked her was in a What If where she and Nightcrawler are actually raised by Mystique.

Earlier in this thread you were going on about the (snicker) Hornet but didn't think Rogue had fans...?

 

[JewishHobbit]

I prefer Hornet over Rogue.

 

[Dread]

I just want to make sure it's clear that I was being totally sarcastic to the effect of both of those things I said are pretty incredibly common and easy to have done if someone has any kind of meaningful resources available, as that from reading your response it is unclear whether my response was clear in that regard.

Yeah, I didn't get that impression. The golden rule of the internet is "anything is intended to be a joke if a smilie is behind it". Example:

Your socks smell.

Your socks smell.

Which sounds more like a genuine insult, and more like a reasonable quip? All comes down to the smilie. It makes up for not being able to hear a tone of voice with text.

That, and I probably look for any reason to be verbose.

I think the problem with worrying about unrealism in comics is that unrealism is pretty much the bubble under the skin of comics where pushing it down in one place inevitably pushes it up somewhere else. So arguing about something being unrealistic really just means arguing which kind of unrealistic you're willing to tolerate.

Bendis clearly has a huge aversion to the kind of unrealisticness that says circumstances will always / almost always align so that Spider-Man is able to keep his mask on, but it just means that he's completely tolerant of the unrealisticness that says that basically every single villain Spider-Man fights is functionally ******ed on a level that makes the staff of the Daily Planet look like Pulitzer-winning investigative journalists or something.

But, see, my problem is "that basically every single villain Spider-Man fights is functionally ******ed on a level that makes the staff of the Daily Planet look like Pulitzer-winning investigative journalists" is JUST AS UNREALISTIC as a situation where Spider-Man's identity is always secret. Bendis is trading one ridiculous genre expectation for another while saying one is better when, at best, they're both equally stupid. And that wouldn't bother me if the stories were good anyway, but they were usually as predictable as a walk to the grocery store. Or if Bendis in every interview he has ever given hasn't implied that his way of writing is superior to any other. He's not as obnoxious as Mark Millar by far, but...let's say there's a reason they work well together. Frankly, the only reason Bendis isn't in Millar's position is I think he's too lazy; he's literally rejected offers to be an editor because he doesn't like their dressed up, 9-5 style work style. I can't imagine him running around to make a JINX movie happen the way Millar is making movies about anything he scribbles on a napkin.

A standard arc of USM by the time I left went like this: USM is going about his life, usually talking about some random stuff. Villain shows up. USM acts like a spaz. Loses. Unmasked. Occasionally kidnapped/humiliated/emasculated. Someone else does something at a critical moment and USM survives, or gets in a final blow by luck in the climax. Villain is emboldened that he/she/it knows who USM is, but doesn't act on it in any way like a normal person, but like a ******ed WWE performer. Cue next arc, repeat. It's like "SPIDER-MAN 3" was every single movie. By and large, I do not suspect that has changed. There is literally no drama in Peter's life if every single person in his life, friend or foe, knows his secret. None. That's the lazy way out of writing him; you don't think every writer who has ever written Spider-Man didn't think, "Boy, it'd be so much easier if I didn't have to worry about this secret identity thing, but I do so I have to actually be clever and earn my money"!? It's just SPIDER-FRIENDS, and the fact that Bendis thinks it is brilliance to have to blatantly rip off an idea from 1982 while being far more pretentious about it is insane.

I finished The Marvels Project and sort of wondered why anyone felt the need to tell that story. I didn't expect it to be literally just a tour through Marvel's Golden Age. I was expecting something bigger to happen. It bored me a bit in retrospect, to be honest.

Well...there was a big climax at the end, with foiling the assassination of FDR and the British Prime Minister at the same time as the attack on Pearl Harbor. But I suppose I do agree with you, that my expectations of the ending were higher.

It wasn't bad, I just felt it was a bit pointless. I was actually kind of hoping that John Steele guy would find his way to the present. He seemed cool.

I wouldn't say it was pointless. Brubaker has a lot of love for dealing with past eras of heroes, and frankly if anyone was going to do "yet another Golden Age hero story", I am glad it was him. He handled it better than anyone I have seen in years. That to me is worth something. Was it worth $4 an issue? Maybe not entirely, but I don't regret buying it. And who knows? Maybe we'll see Angel's grandson pop up in SECRET AVENGERS or CAPTAIN AMERICA somewhere.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I prefer Hornet over Rogue.

Me too! I loved Rogue back in the 80's and early 90's...but, her relationship with Gambit...the constant, "I can't touch you, but I really want to," went on far too much, and then the loss of her powers and now new powers structure just did nothing for me. I used to love X-Men Legacy when it focused on Professor X...but, the switch to the focus being on Rogue made the title almost unreadable. Too bad they didn't kill her off, instead of Nightcrawler.

(Meanwhile, Claremont has made Rogue much more interesting, by giving her Nightcrawler's powers now.)

 

[Phaedrus45]

Pretty sure it was revealed in an earlier issue.

You're right. Ultimate S-Man #6. I either forgot about it, or simply wasn't paying attention to the details. Oh, well...it was a surprise to me!

 

[squeekness]

I prefer Hornet over Rogue.

Or a nice dental cleaning...

 

[fifthfiend]

Yeah, I didn't get that impression. The golden rule of the internet is "anything is intended to be a joke if a smilie is behind it". Example:

Your socks smell.

Your socks smell.

Which sounds more like a genuine insult, and more like a reasonable quip? All comes down to the smilie. It makes up for not being able to hear a tone of voice with text.

There was totally a smiley on that post, it is right there you can go look at it an everything.

See? Right on there.

But, see, my problem is "that basically every single villain Spider-Man fights is functionally ******ed on a level that makes the staff of the Daily Planet look like Pulitzer-winning investigative journalists" is JUST AS UNREALISTIC as a situation where Spider-Man's identity is always secret. Bendis is trading one ridiculous genre expectation for another while saying one is better when, at best, they're both equally stupid. And that wouldn't bother me if the stories were good anyway, but they were usually as predictable as a walk to the grocery store.

Again you seem to be under the impression that I disagree with this when it's like, pretty much what I said. YOU ARE BEING A VERY FRUSTRATING CONVERSANT, DREAD

 

[Dread]

There was totally a smiley on that post, it is right there you can go look at it an everything.

Then I just look for any excuse to be verbose.

Again you seem to be under the impression that I disagree with this when it's like, pretty much what I said. YOU ARE BEING A VERY FRUSTRATING CONVERSANT, DREAD

I was under the impression you were giving me some variation of, "it's comic book logic, don't nit pick it". Sorry.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Earlier in this thread you were going on about the (snicker) Hornet but didn't think Rogue had fans...?

I have a well known affinity for plenty of characters no one else gives a f*** about. My favorite character second only to Thor is the Black Knight.

Me too! I loved Rogue back in the 80's and early 90's...but, her relationship with Gambit...the constant, "I can't touch you, but I really want to," went on far too much, and then the loss of her powers and now new powers structure just did nothing for me. I used to love X-Men Legacy when it focused on Professor X...but, the switch to the focus being on Rogue made the title almost unreadable. Too bad they didn't kill her off, instead of Nightcrawler.

(Meanwhile, Claremont has made Rogue much more interesting, by giving her Nightcrawler's powers now.)

What the f***? That's exactly what happened in that What If I was talking about! I wonder if Claremont read it or if it's just a really obvious idea, given that they're each Mystique's child in different ways.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Admittedly I stopped reading X-Treme X-Men halfway through (because it was boring as all hell) but I kinda liked when Rogue had an amalgamation of every power she absorbed previously. I thought that made an interesting change and coulda got some mileage outta XXM. But, once that ended Rogue reappeared back to her original power level with tattoos that seemed to vanish once that arc was over.

Personally, my biggest problem in comics is the new writer. I don't mean someone new to writing, I mean the writer that takes over a title. You get some guys who have their own conceptions and, rather than creatively alter things the way they want them, come in, disregard whatever the hell they want that came before, and then go do their own thing. Now, don't get me wrong...some of these things DESERVE to be disregarded, but I'd rather see it done creatively over lazily.

 

[roach]

So, it's like Bendis; he's written so much **** that when he comes around and writes something that is merely average, a lot of people dance in the sun about it?

I recently purchased Iron man:Armor Wars as I have never read the story. In the intro David Michelinie talks about a dinner the team went to with then EIC Jim Shooter. Artist Bob Layton was not happy about the lack of publicity the book was getting. Jim mentioned that quality wasnt enough....quality was the standard......

 

[iloveclones]

Armor Wars was pretty cool. If memory serves, Tony was totally rockin' the mullet!

 

[roach]

Armor Wars was pretty cool. If memory serves, Tony was totally rockin' the mullet!

to bone up for IM2 I bought Demon in a bottle, Prologue to Armor Wars and Armor Wars...lot of cool ideas they could use for the movies and a lot of stuff taken from Demon in IM2. Main thing being Hammer had a base in Monaco(where they raced in IM2) and Hammer hired a bunch of foes to attack IM. Whiplash was among them..at the time Tony was in the silver and scarlet armor and a version of that armor was in the suitcase