The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 4

[redfirebird2008]

If he appears in the movie as little as people are saying, it is a disgrace, given how heavily he featured in the advertising.

It will backfire. Joker is extremely popular. They are counting on the public showing up in big numbers because of him. They will on opening weekend, but word will spread very fast about Joker's lack of screentime.

 

[The Joker]

The characterization they've given to Joker in SS is awful, too.

 

[redfirebird2008]

The characterization they've given to Joker in SS is awful, too.

Possibly explains why so many of the Joker scenes were cut, but I would still prefer to see the director's version of the film instead of whatever the studio did to it.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

It will backfire. Joker is extremely popular. They are counting on the public showing up in big numbers because of him. They will on opening weekend, but word will spread very fast about Joker's lack of screentime.

Such a shame... WB seemingly aren't thinking beyond the opening weekend these days.

 

[BatLobster]

Mainly about the deleted scenes. I'll quote someone who watched two cuts of the film. This is irritating.

Spoiler

What the hell happened to the Joker scenes?? In the test screening, there was a FULL flashback to Joker and Harley having a little "couple fight" with her pointing a gun straight at his head during an argument then him smacking her hard in the face. Basic gist of the scene was Harley was angry at Mistah J leaving her. Joker then explains, quite gleefully/manically of how he wants to "show you where I was born". This leads into ACE Chemicals where they have the "chemical wedding". A TON of Leto's scenes that actually ****ing explained why Harley keeps coming back to him are just shafted. It was quite jarring to watch this final cut with ALL of that missing. Most of all, the important scene with Joker and Harley in the helicopter was butchered to pieces. That could have made for an amazing emotional catharsis for Harley's character but instead is just a side moment. Also cut is the Joker subway scene where he talks to his gang and intimidates them with a Batman story. Oh and the "I can't wait to show you my toys" line from the trailer? From my memory, it's been deleted as well. With all that gone, the Joker is what the Scarecrow was in 'The Dark Knight' and 'Rises'. Glorified freaking cameos. Think about that for a second.

This is literally mind-boggling.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Such a shame... WB seemingly aren't thinking beyond the opening weekend these days.

But if Leto really is that bad in the film, it's hard to blame WB for cutting his scenes. I seriously doubt they wanted to cut his screentime down to cameo status. They know how popular the character is. But they also know as soon as they see daily footage whether it's worth a crap or not. With Ledger and Nicholson the studio executives were probably over the moon excited when they saw daily footage.

 

[BatLobster]

It gets a bit dicey if they're hiding the performance from us though, you know? Now I won't know if I would've appreciated the cut material more than what's in the film, if they showed different dimensions of his character and gave more context to everything.

The editing of a film is a such a sensitive thing. But given that Ayer only was given 6 weeks to write the film, coupled with WB being reactionary- it's not surprising that they ran into trouble late in the game.

 

[redfirebird2008]

It gets a bit dicey if they're hiding the performance from us though, you know? Now I won't know if I would've appreciated the cut material more than what's in the film, if they showed different dimensions of his character and gave more context to everything.

The editing of a film is a such a sensitive thing.

They would have done a lot of audience testing before making such a drastic change to the most popular character (by a billion miles) in the film.

 

[The Shape]

It doesn't seem to me their goal was to hide Leto's performance or anything like that. Rather, it seems that following BVS and testing SS, they cut some of the more creepy and disturbing moments (like him *****-slapping Harley) out of fear that it would be too dark or controversial again, while trying to turn up the fun-factor. It's the sad ripple effect of reviews hinging on things like "darkness" and "fun".

 

[The Joker]

Apparently test audiences reacted negatively to Letoker's violence or something. They must be a really over sensitive bunch.

 

[BatLobster]

Who did they invite to the test screenings, a bunch of soccer moms?

This is just ridiculous. This is supposed to be a movie about VILLAINS. The thing people took issue with in BvS is how they depicted the HEROES (among other things).

The whole thing is one big clusterf***. But it just shows the weakness of foundation this whole thing is standing on. If WB can't hold it together after one film gets bad reviews and then proceeds to learn all the wrong lessons, then their universe was in for a bumpy ride no matter what. It's just embarrassing what is happening here.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

Yet the scene where Batman punched Harley in the face wasn't cut from SS.

 

[The Shape]

I should have clarified that it was Joker slapping and abusing Dr. Harleen Quinzel, whereas I'm assuming you're referring to Batman punching Harley Quinn, the psychotic murderer.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

I should have clarified that it was Joker slapping and abusing Dr. Harleen Quinzel, whereas I'm assuming you're referring to Batman punching Harley Quinn, the psychotic murderer.

Joker is evil, he is supposed to kill and torture innocent people. Batman isn't.

 

[The Shape]

Joker is evil, he is supposed to kill and torture innocent people. Batman isn't.

Right, and I'm not arguing against that. But Batman's goal to is eliminate crime, often by punching criminals...so I'm not sure what your point is, in that regard.

 

[shauner111]

Only a Batman movie can help them out at this point. And that movie could go any direction at this point. I wonder if Affleck will want to make sure Leto gets more screen time after this butcher job, or will he be afraid to include him too much because of the dull Joker response??

My lord Ben must be pulling his hair out.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Ben must be so pissed at WB for convincing him to be apart of this

at least he's getting paid though

 

[Tacit Ronin]

My lord Ben must be pulling his hair out.

The real ones or his Bruce Wayne wig?

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

Right, and I'm not arguing against that. But Batman's goal to is eliminate crime, often by punching criminals...so I'm not sure what your point is, in that regard.

I meant that "Joker punches Harley" scene doesn't seem any worse than "Batman punches Harley" (while Harleen is more innocent than Harley, Joker is supposed to be more evil than Batman). Yet one of these scenes was cut and another wasn't. This sensitivity looks weirdly selective.

 

[The Joker]

BTAS used to have women getting slapped around, too. Ivy and Harley both took smacks from both Batman and Joker.

 

[AnneFan]

It doesn't seem to me their goal was to hide Leto's performance or anything like that. Rather, it seems that following BVS and testing SS, they cut some of the more creepy and disturbing moments (like him *****-slapping Harley) out of fear that it would be too dark or controversial again, while trying to turn up the fun-factor. It's the sad ripple effect of reviews hinging on things like "darkness" and "fun".

It's disappointing, and most of all, gutless. Freaking out and censoring themselves.

 

[shauner111]

Nolans back. I love how they're still throwing in "The Dark Knight Trilogy" in the title cards.

 

[The Batman]

I enjoyed Suicide Squad to a certain extent, but there are definitely problems. I probably wouldn't see the theatrical version again.

Deadshot was a reminder of why Will Smith became a star.

Margot was good with what she was given.

Leto was a disappointment as Joker.

Killer Croc...was just there. Had a nice look, though.

 

[The Joker]

What about the rest of the characters, Batsy? Boomerang, Waller, Katana, Enchantress etc?

 

[The Batman]

Like Margot, Viola was good with what she was given.

Boomerang was funny.

Katana felt unnecessary.

El Diablo had a decent storyarc.

Flagg was pretty dull.

Enchantress was pretty much like a forgettable MCU villain.