See, I feel differently. I think the beauty of the show is that it does feature lesser known heroes. I mean when will you ever see Rocket in animation except for in a show with a large cast of characters? If they could tighten some of arcs for the main character and make the periphal characters more central then it may not feel like they are just people coming and going for no apparent reason. They don't need to be there all the time, but when they do arrive there will be better context.
There's no real point in using lesser-known characters if they're only on screen for 15 seconds at a time, though.
It's great the Rocket is on the show, but I still know nothing about her, nor do I care about her. If they spent more time on the characters, it would be one thing. But it feels like they're just throwing characters in for the hell of it instead of using them for any real story purposes.
And I've said it before, I think they are just using a lot of the characters for diversity's sake. Nearly all of the expanded cast in the second season has been a minority of some sort.
GamerSlyRatchet said:Yet, strangely enough, there hasn't been a straight-out Bat-Family show, the closest being TNBA, and when the Bat-Family show was pitched, it was rejected in favor of Beware the Batman.
What is the logic in this?
I just wonder why it couldn't have been Cassandra Cain if they wanted Batman to have an Asian sidekick this go around.
Greg just needs to stop looking at this show as a DC universe show for everyone.
I hope this show is not canceled as it's currently my favorite animated series about superheroes to date! I have been enjoying it, although I have enjoyed season 2 more than the first thanks to additions like Wonder Girl and Blue Beetle. I'm crossing my fingers it get's a 3rd season!!
Greg just needs to stop looking at this show as a DC universe show for everyone. Just because you have access to all of their characters doesnt mean they have to show up unless you need them to show up for a reason.
Because according to many DC insiders, Cass and Stephanie Brown are both considered "toxic". Not even the comic book writers can use them. I'm probably guessing the proposed Bat-Family pitch might have been shot down because Cass was in the main roster.
Though I'm thinking Katana's inclusion, besides a fascination in the character from the producers, will probably be leading into a "Batman and the Outsiders" premise, since Metamorpho is also scheduled to appear in the show.
That's actually how his higher-ups asked him and Brandon to take the show as: a show that will high-light the DC Universe.
And yes, while we got awesome characters out of it like Huntress, Question, Black Canary, and Green Arrow, we also endured a lot of wasted time on types like B'Wanna Beast, Hawk & Dove and so on. If the show was episodic all the way, that might have been alright, but "JLU" also dipped a toe into serialized storytelling more so than ever, which caused a dilemma.
Doesnt mean he has to jam pack 300 characters into a 20 episode season. Thats the only major problem I have with season 2 is that there are soo many characters showing up, that the main team/newbies arent going to get the development they need.
Me too. Avengers is my fave & this is a VERY close 2nd. I've enjoyed season 2 more than te 1st because of Nightwing. I hate Ultimate Spider-Man & simply don't care about the Green Lantern show. Most if not all of the new superhero shows about to come out soon from Marvel & DC look horrible. Since Avengers is getting the axe I need this show to stay on more than ever.I hope this show is not canceled as it's currently my favorite animated series about superheroes to date! I have been enjoying it, although I have enjoyed season 2 more than the first thanks to additions like Wonder Girl and Blue Beetle. I'm crossing my fingers it get's a 3rd season!!
Me too. Avengers is my fave & this is a VERY close 2nd. I've enjoyed season 2 more than te 1st because of Nightwing. I hate Ultimate Spider-Man & simply don't care about the Green Lantern show. Most if not all of the new superhero shows about to come out soon from Marvel & DC look horrible. Since Avengers is getting the axe I need this show to stay on more than ever.
It's not on par with YJ or A:EMH, but its a fairly close 3rd. It's pay-off was better than the end of season 1 YJ,.
I don't know. I found the GL pay off to be pretty weak. Atrocitus is just not that good of a villain and the final battle with Hal was pretty underwhelming. Not to mention that whole bit with Hal and Carol was really unnecessary.
Saint Walker and Kilowog were easily the best part of that dull season finale.
Yeah, that one Hawk & Dove episode was bad...lol.
I understand what you are saying, but those episodes weren't connected to anything and were meant to be episodic. For me that worked for JLU because the "unlimited" portion was about showing more JL members then just the core seven. As a DC fan it was exciting to see some characters that had never been seen in animation, or those who had made guest appearances in other DCAU incarnations. lol...I remember jumping out of my seat when I saw the Creeper.
Characters turn out differently for various reasons. I was merely inferring as to why Kaldur is the way he is with what I know from the show.
For the record, Lagoon Boy's lack of focus has become a tactical issue, which led to his own capture. And a lot of people (not me) dislike him.
having him be stoic ran the least risk of offending anyone.
So, my having little faith that the show will expand Wally beyond a few cameos is a rush to judgement, but you having the same feeling about Kaldur is spot on?
Yet how often do we see other characters struggle against those things in comparison to a speedster always tripping on stuff for plot convenience?
Plus, Spider-Man is one of the most editorially controlled and screwed up characters Marvel has sometimes.
"at a critical moment he will trip on something" and be right 55% of the time. You don't see that come up nearly as often with other hero characters.
I've tried to block "DENIAL" from my memory of the show; I found it a disappointing example of the show (like "WELCOME TO HAPPY HARBOR"). Beyond the "helmet of fate" subplot which had the most impact on Zatanna I don't feel it offers much nor executed what it sought to as well as it should have.
10 years? I can barely recall specific episodes of that after five. Even the good ones.
What I think is that every member of the regular cast of a team show should get an even mix of "big moments" rather than some being adepts and some lagging behind. Because when I end up attaching to the characters that lag behind I tire of making a big deal about the scraps they're handed while others get entire feasts.
You forget the "Little help?" line Wally asks Megan at the end of the scene, which was played for laughs. It diminishes the feat.
What, wouldn't Spider-Man be "turning the tables" on Kraven in that example?
However, Kaldur's a bad-ass in a fight
Wally's a liability.
I'm not naive, I am sure Wally will suit up again
before the finale to go beat up some minions or pull a lever somewhere.
If anything, his role as Artemis' supporting character makes that inevitable. Unlike Wally, Artemis gets that balance of "big moments" with tender or subtle moments on a far more consistent basis and lo and behold, she's one of the most compelling characters the show has. The two of them even have an online nickname I've seen tossed around, "Spitfire", as a couple. The difference is that when you pull "Spitfire" apart, Artemis always has compelling subplots to run with in a season which have nothing to do with Wally. You can't say the reverse for Wally, whose subplots revolve around Artemis. Now, being the supporting character to a compelling heroine is a better place than many characters wound up - just look at abandoned Red Tornado or Rocket's brief cameo stint, or even Kaldur. But it isn't equal.
Right. The dilemma with this trend repeating slightly in "YJ" is this show IS heavily serialized and thus the extra characters do bog things down sometimes at worst, and at best devolve into "spare hero" syndrome.
Yes, I can see that, which is why they need to think about who they adding instead of just adding them for the sake of it. Mabye this is too challenging for the writers though...
For me , I like the the inclusion of the characters even as shout outs. I don't like it all the time, but as a DC fan I like it.
So am I, I just know that we've seen characters in Atlantis act in a variety of ways. Except for Aqualad, who you could sum up as his emotions being stoic, uptight, and mopey. But little beyond that. If being Aquaman's apprentice was such a heavy burden of a position (along with being around the man himself), than I don't feel they did a good job of showing that. I just feel given what we've been shown and told of Kaldur's background, and the way Kaldur has turned out, I feel that came across as a case of 2+2=5?
There's ALOT of people who seem to hate Lagoon Boy, but I can guarantee you THAT is at the bottom of their list of reasons why.
Personally I always found that to be a cowards way out writing wise. It always reeks of pulling your punches because your worried someone might not like what you come up with. There's always going to be something someone's not going to like, yet some people won't see it as a big deal. You just have to deal with it.
Please keep in mind that while I have stated that yes I do find Aqualad boring and dull. I've NEVER written that I don't think he CAN'T become an interesting character at all later on. I just don't think he is "right now". I was intrigued by him in Alienated, but I feel we regressed back to square one. With the possible exception of M'gann, Aqualad still reacts to and treats characters the same way he did the first time he met them. I can't say the same thing with the other 5.
Hell there was a scene in the comic recently where everybody was having a psychic conversation with each other, and Aqualad got so annoyed with it that he told them all to shut up and get their heads in the game. And that just because they're teens doesn't mean they have to be cliches. It was a nice badass military general like moment, that I wish they would've given him more of during the first season.
At least in the context of this show I think it actually humanizes him more. Though to be fair that MIGHT not be the intent, but that's how I look at it.
And nobody else in comics isn't? Do you know how hard it is for even the most hardcore of Donna Troy (the first Wonder Girl) fans to even digest or make sense of her convoluted origins, backstory, or characterizations?
The only time he's tripped during a critical moment was in Drop Zone. All those other ones weren't as critical. Also where's this he's right 55% of the time come from?
I'd give it another shot if I were you, who knows you might be pleasantly surprised.
That's grounds for writing off their character or characterizations HOW?
Obviously our opinions of that differ. Just because he asked for help doesn't mean he was helpless.
I think you and I both know that the ends really don't justify the means in that case.
So is Robin, and like his mentor he delivers more than just "bad ass" fighting.
Wally's no more a liability than Superboy is, who seems to get smacked around just as much. It seems your issue is that Wally doesn't get final blows in as much as Conner sometimes does. Me, I don't think it's a big deal.
That's not what you said at the beginning of the season.
Given that his subplot seems like it might be heading towards him taking up the Flash mantle I'm positive it will be much more than THAT.
I think you tend to over emphasize Wally being Artemis's "supporting character" just because his arc in season 1 revolved around her. Sure I can see why you would continue seeing it that way based on whats happened in the episodes of season 2 so far, but if that were really true Wally wouldn't have appeared before her in Salvage.
Maybe Wally might be inactive at the moment, but that's just "at the moment". Obviously his arc is going to be finding his passion for being a hero again. Sure Artemis might play a role in some of that, but I don't think it means he specifically needs her to get there. Hell by the time Artemis reunites with Wally it might resemble one of those scenarios where a soldier over seas has come home to find alot has changed while they were away.
I'm not saying I don't get how you've come to that point of view. I just don't think it rings true just because some characters get more screen time than others.
lol...it's a very interesting discussion though.
meh...I want a new Superman cartoon. I will accept no substitutes...lol
I was thinking, I won't be surprised if they decide to cancel this show in favour of Justice league.
Having this exact same animators with the exact or bigger budget, with Greg Weisman and co as story editors, since DC is now planning to do a Justice League movie I don't see why not.
And it could be based on this universe of Young Justice so everything that happened, happened.